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Old 09-03-2013, 18:08   #226
Glocksanity
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Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
I'm sure Glocksanity and the other gold bugs will explain why Mr. Buffett is in error, but I am siding with the guy that that has earned billions understanding business and movements within the free market economy.
Buffet is an investor and wants investments.

Gold is for wealth preservation and not for generating returns on investment.

Two different vehicles for two different goals.

All central banks in the world have gold and are buying more. It must have some value if the most important financial institutions in the world horde it.

Gold is money. Stocks and bonds are investments. The west has lost that concept. It will return shortly.
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Old 09-03-2013, 18:12   #227
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Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
Buffet is an investor and wants investments.

Gold is for wealth preservation and not for generating returns on investment.

Two different vehicles for two different goals.

All central banks in the world have gold and are buying more. It must have some value if the most important financial institutions in the world horde it.

Gold is money. Stocks and bonds are investments. The west has lost that concept. It will return shortly.

I predicted it.
I rest my case.
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Old 09-03-2013, 18:22   #228
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I predicted it.
I rest my case.
Warren Buffet is correct when he makes the following statement:

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Their value will be determined not by the medium of exchange but rather by their capacity to deliver milk.
However, what freegold does is SEPARATE the medium of exchange function from the store of value function of money.

Warren just goes after a nominal return on the medium of exchange. He has no interest in the store of value function of money because they are currently one and the same, the U.S. dollar. So, as I had previously mentioned, no one can really save at all any more because they lose purchasing power to inflation.

Under freegold, purchasing power is not lost when one saves in gold. One then can either save in gold and not lose purchasing power, or choose to invest in the medium of exchange. That is how freegold is different than what we have now.

What I am saving is that game will change, and therefore the strategy of preserving wealth will change with it. Buffet is absolutely correct under our current system. But that won't last forever.

Does that make any sense to you?
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Old 09-03-2013, 18:24   #229
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Warren Buffet is correct when he makes the following statement:



However, what freegold does is SEPARATE the medium of exchange function from the store of value function of money.

Warren just goes after a nominal return on the medium of exchange. He has no interest in the store of value function of money because they are currently one and the same, the U.S. dollar. So, as I had previously mentioned, no one can really save at all any more because they lose purchasing power to inflation.

Under freegold, purchasing power is not lost when one saves in gold. One then can either save in gold and not lose purchasing power, or choose to invest in the medium of exchange. That is how freegold is different than what we have now.

What I am saving is that game will change, and therefore the strategy of preserving wealth will change with it. Buffet is absolutely correct under our current system. But that won't last forever.

Does that make any sense to you?

Dude, you'll never change the brainwashed mind. You are giving advice, they are mocking you. They'll go/maybe already are leveraged/broke. You tried. Good on you.

It's like acquaintances who mock me. They think it's funny. I think it's funny that they are all broke and I"m not.
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Old 09-03-2013, 18:35   #230
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It's like acquaintances who mock me. They think it's funny. I think it's funny that they are all broke and I"m not.
Be careful of the assumptions you make of the people giving a critical analysis of the commodities markets. I know that many here have done quite well for themselves.
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Old 09-03-2013, 18:40   #231
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Dude, you'll never change the brainwashed mind. You are giving advice, they are mocking you. They'll go/maybe already are leveraged/broke. You tried. Good on you.

It's like acquaintances who mock me. They think it's funny. I think it's funny that they are all broke and I"m not.
Like I said, I am not trying to change minds, just putting an opinion out there, getting responses, and then making a list so I can laugh at all those when I am correct.
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Old 09-03-2013, 19:17   #232
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Like I said, I am not trying to change minds, just putting an opinion out there, getting responses, and then making a list so I can laugh at all those when I am correct.
So, you're basically a troll?
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Old 09-03-2013, 19:25   #233
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Dude, you'll never change the brainwashed mind.
Irony at its best.
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Old 09-03-2013, 20:02   #234
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So, you're basically a troll?
Not at all. I am providing a great service for those that want to preserve wealth. But when met with laughter, derision, mocking, and general claims of insanity, I might as well just take names for having the last laugh.

Truth is not trolling.
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Old 09-03-2013, 20:15   #235
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Not at all. I am providing a great service for those that want to preserve wealth. But when met with laughter, derision, mocking, and general claims of insanity, I might as well just take names for having the last laugh.

Truth is not trolling.
Truth.
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Old 09-03-2013, 20:25   #236
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Like I said, I am not trying to change minds, just putting an opinion out there, getting responses, and then making a list so I can laugh at all those when I am correct.
The only thing worth laughing at in this thread is how hard you are trying to convince others that you are right despite how blatantly wrong you are. And you've been shown to be wrong by people far more knowledgeable than you, as well as basic common sense. What's even funnier is that this is the second time in just a week or so that you've embarrassed yourself here.
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Old 09-03-2013, 21:24   #237
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The only thing worth laughing at in this thread is how hard you are trying to convince others that you are right despite how blatantly wrong you are. And you've been shown to be wrong by people far more knowledgeable than you, as well as basic common sense. What's even funnier is that this is the second time in just a week or so that you've embarrassed yourself here.
The only proof of me being wrong is if gold is not repriced to $55,000 or so in the next 5-7 years.

The proof is in the pudding, not in you stating I am wrong.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:30   #238
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With the "printing" of money by the Fed's purchase of Treasuries, hard assets are a good investment. The question is which hard asset. Gold has a historical basis but so do real estate, weapons, and manufacturing equipment. Of those, gold is the only one that just sits and does nothing. Land can be used for crops or for housing, weapons can be used to project force, and manufacturing equipment can be used to make stuff. Gold has some industrial uses but much of it just sits in vaults to settle accounts or exists as jewelry. To me, that is the real reason gold is a barbarous relic; it is just a store of value and never a means to create.
Gold is portable wealth.

Real estate is an inflation hedge but it is heavily taxed and regulated by government. 95% of residential mortgages are guaranteed by the government.

Weapons can be outlawed by the stroke of a pen.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:35   #239
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In full disclosure, I have never sold more than 250 ozt at any one time.
You must have liked PMs at one point.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:39   #240
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I just read an interesting article. It is titled "Why Warren Buffett Hates Gold".
Buffett is the third richest man in the world. Acknowledged by virtually all to be the greatest investor in modern times and possibly ever.

Here is his take on gold, and an excerpt:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-wa...120228611.html
Buffett is just sore he sold his 130 million ounces of silver purchased at $4.50/oz. in 1997 before the big uptick.

Watch what they do not what they say.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:56   #241
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Weapons can be outlawed by the stroke of a pen.
So can gold. It has happened before...
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:34   #242
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Still like them as part (about ten percent) of a diversified portfolio, and I suspect I hold more precious metals than most. But I do not believe that the price of gold is going to exhibit a step function from $1400 per ozt to $55,000 per ozt without everything else being repriced at the same time. Gold does not exist in a vacuum.
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You must have liked PMs at one point.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:44   #243
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Gold is heavily regulated as well. Wait till you get a 1099 for selling gold or take a hit because you sold Krugerrands, not GAE. There are not many buyers who can handle or are willing to handle large amounts of precious metals.
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Gold is portable wealth.

Real estate is an inflation hedge but it is heavily taxed and regulated by government. 95% of residential mortgages are guaranteed by the government.

Weapons can be outlawed by the stroke of a pen.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:34   #244
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... Gold does not exist in a vacuum.

It may not exist "in a vacuum", but it is a world of it's own..

Yes, much is traded on commodities exchanges, and yes, those trades are subject to both the applicable laws and regulations and to the underlying dynamics of other commodity markets.

It is also true however that some portion of the day-to-day transfer of wealth which occurs with gold as the vehicle happens outside of those markets and boundaries. Argue that all you wish, but to believe otherwise is foolish.

Significant wealth exists as gold around the planet which is bought, sold, loaned, stolen, pledged, and killed for outside what most think of as "markets". Just because it isn't easily visible doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

The question becomes, what portion of all the gold traded/bought/sold/stolen/inherited on any given day or year exists outside those "markets".

And this encompases the activities of central banks and governments as well as Chinese merchants, eastern warlords, or South American drug cartels.

Gold is a currency as well as a commodity.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:53   #245
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How is that any different that any other commodity? Cocaine is mostly traded outside of any regulated marketplace; however, it is not immune to price fluctuations caused by supply and demand. Same for coffee, copper, and silver. And none of those prices move in a vacuum.

I fail to see what makes gold unique other than the claim that it is the money of choice for some societies for thousands of years. Even given that, why continue to use just gold? Why not use palladium or platinum? Or rubies? Or wampum? Or superconductors? What is the salient feature that makes gold THE commodity that should be chosen as a means of wealth storage/preservation?

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It may not exist "in a vacuum", but it is a world of it's own..

Yes, much is traded on commodities exchanges, and yes, those trades are subject to both the applicable laws and regulations and to the underlying dynamics of other commodity markets.

It is also true however that some portion of the day-to-day transfer of wealth which occurs with gold as the vehicle happens outside of those markets and boundaries. Argue that all you wish, but to believe otherwise is foolish.

Significant wealth exists as gold around the planet which is bought, sold, loaned, stolen, pledged, and killed for outside what most think of as "markets". Just because it isn't easily visible doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

The question becomes, what portion of all the gold traded/bought/sold/stolen/inherited on any given day or year exists outside those "markets".

And this encompases the activities of central banks and governments as well as Chinese merchants, eastern warlords, or South American drug cartels.

Gold is a currency as well as a commodity.
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Old 09-04-2013, 13:34   #246
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How is that any different that any other commodity? Cocaine is mostly traded outside of any regulated marketplace; however, it is not immune to price fluctuations caused by supply and demand. Same for coffee, copper, and silver. And none of those prices move in a vacuum.

I fail to see what makes gold unique other than the claim that it is the money of choice for some societies for thousands of years. Even given that, why continue to use just gold? Why not use palladium or platinum? Or rubies? Or wampum? Or superconductors? What is the salient feature that makes gold THE commodity that should be chosen as a means of wealth storage/preservation?
Gold is shinier

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Old 09-04-2013, 13:37   #247
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I fail to see what makes gold unique other than the claim that it is the money of choice for some societies for thousands of years. Even given that, why continue to use just gold?
The choice to use gold as a currency is of course an individual choice.
Ask someone who is presently doing so..

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What is the salient feature that makes gold THE commodity that should be chosen as a means of wealth storage/preservation?

I do not recall making any such assertions.
Can you cite the post you're perhaps thinking of here?


What I did say earlier in this thread (post #213) is:

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No matter what else, gold is sought after, even today, just as it has been down through the ages because young desirable women will do incredible things for small trinkets of gold...

That will never change, and the percieved value of gold will always be underpinned by that simple immutable fact of life.

I would assert that this has defined and driven much of human history.
In all this contentious thread, no one has disputed this.
Do you?
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Old 09-04-2013, 14:16   #248
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Gold is heavily regulated as well. Wait till you get a 1099 for selling gold or take a hit because you sold Krugerrands, not GAE. There are not many buyers who can handle or are willing to handle large amounts of precious metals.
Yeah, well...

I've made the point in previous threads that the government can only tax what it knows and can track..

Discuss morality all you wish, but a significant amount of gold can be bought and sold in private, if one is motivated to do so.

The government can pass tax laws and regulations forever (and no doubt will do so) but try as they may they are unable to control the flow of illegal narcotics. Gold is far more difficult to detect. It is inert and has no odor at all. Dogs cannot detect it. You can drop it into a hole or drop it into a pond and leave it for years, come back and it will be the same as the day you left it there.


.
.
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Old 09-04-2013, 14:26   #249
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I fail to see what makes gold unique other than the claim that it is the money of choice for some societies for thousands of years.
You raise a great philosophical question about what is money? Why is money money? Thousands of years of acceptance by just about everyone does make it unique. It is unique because everyone pretty much considers it unique. That is good enough for me. If someone gave you gold, would you say no? Heck no. You would say thanks!

Money is an abstraction. All it does is provide a reference point for all economic exchanges.

It has three functions.

1. Unit of account
2. Medium of exchange
3. Store of value

Nothing stores value better than gold. Gold does not tarnish, rust, burn away. It is practically infinitely divisible. Highly malleable. Easy to work with. Easy to store. Rare. People like it because it is shiny. Basically humanity has decided it really likes gold and it lasts forever and you can't just create it out of thin air. Perfect for storing wealth. It also isn't much good at anything else. It just excels at looking pretty. Who doesn't like that?

For the exact reason that Warren Buffet hates it as an investment, makes it absolutely perfect for storing wealth as the store of value function of money. Sure, it has some industrial applications, but not that much. Silver is much more import to industry than gold. Gold just sits there and does nothing. Awesome!

Paper and digital are great for medium of exchange and unit of account. But they fail in that are not scarce. They can be inflated to infinity. That makes them a great fail for store of value/wealth.

So, just separate the functions of money. Gold for value/wealth and paper and digital for medium of exchange and unit of account. That is all Freegold is. Pretty simple form of money.

Why all the uproar against a simple system is beyond me. Our current system is a disaster. It has created the biggest welfare state ever. The biggest debt ever. So, why all the hate for an honest monetary system?

Unless you just have no faith in mankind to do the right thing. That I can buy. If you think that the ruling elite just want to keep us debt slaves, then that is a reasonable argument why this won't happen. I just disagree because I think the ruling elite need gold to be re-priced to save their wealth from destruction.
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Old 09-04-2013, 14:58   #250
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Since some have been stating gold will be $55k per ozt while other prices remain constant, that implies gold is THE commodity of choice to preserve and enhance wealth. Not stacking silver if it is still at $20 per ozt and gold is at $55k.

I also see evidence that gold is being used in electronics in ever increasing amounts, which makes it partially an industrial metal. There is enough gold that some people recycle PCBAs just to recover the gold in the boards and parts.

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The choice to use gold as a currency is of course an individual choice.
Ask someone who is presently doing so..




I do not recall making any such assertions.
Can you cite the post you're perhaps thinking of here?


What I did say earlier in this thread (post #213) is:




I would assert that this has defined and driven much of human history.
In all this contentious thread, no one has disputed this.
Do you?
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