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Old 08-28-2013, 03:52   #1
Nalapombu
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How Does the 45ACP+P and 45 SUPER Compare to the 10mm for HOGS??

Hey all,

Quick question or 2 on hunting applications for a handgun chambered for the 45ACP.

I figure there has to be more than a few of you that have tried this at some point in your hunting careers. Can you tell me how well a 45ACP+P and the 45 Super would be suited for FERAL hog hunting? Then would you mind contrasting that with the 10mm?

I've been thinking about getting a new sidearm to carry when I go bowhunting for feral hogs here in Texas. I had been settled on a 45C or 44mag revolver and then I mentioned it to an online TRAD Archery acquaintance I often chat with and he started telling me about how well a 45ACP+P works and the even more effective 45ACP SUPER round, or is it just 45SUPER? Anyway, I had thought that the 45ACP was no match for the 10mm with the modern loadings that are available for pistols chambered for it. Perhaps I've been wrong, I don't know. I'd like to know more if you guys don't mind educating me on it.

What I didn't know was that the 45 Super can be shot in a pistol chambered for the 45ACP with perhaps a heavier recoil spring. Is that so?

Lets say I get a new G21, I figure I wouldn't have much of a problem shooting +P loads in it, but would there be any problems with shooting the 45 Super in it with the heavier spring, if that's what's needed?

When I was on the Lone Wolf site the other day nosing around I saw that there are slides and barrels available that would allow me to simply swap out a barrel and maybe a slide in some cases and I would have access to a whole lot more rounds even the 10mm. So I could have a 45ACP and a 10mm in the same G21 platform. That's a pretty attractive option for someone that loves semi autos.

I don't know the capabilities of these 45ACP+P or +P+ (if there is such a thing) and the 45 Super and whether they would be a good choice for hogs, a better choice than the 10mm is or at least as good.

I know Buffalo Bore, Garretts Cartridges, and some others are making some really potent ammo for hunting with modern handguns that are built for it. I'd like to know more.

So, if you don't mind and can spare the time, would you all care to enlighten me on these rounds and what you think of them as a backup round while bowhunting or a primary weapon for handgun hunting?

Lastly, you should know that I have NEVER, EVER killed anything with a handgun. I have always wanted to hunt hogs with them though and now that I'm in Texas I can kill all the feral hogs I can find. WOOWEE.

Thank you all kindly for your time and any help you care to give.

Larry
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:00   #2
Nalapombu
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One other thing, ammo availability and price.......

With the way things are now finding regular practice and hunting ammo in 45ACP, 357mag, 45C and 44mag, I can only imagine the difficulty in finding this 45ACP+P, +P+ and the 45 ACP Super. That has to be a nightmare. The 10mm ammo would be easy to find compared to that stuff, wouldn't it?

I'm assuming that if I did decide to go down this route I would likely need to plan on investing in a reloading machine or at least make friends with someone that does have it. If I wanted to do any shooting at all, it would almost be mandatory, would you agree? Even if I chose the 10mm, it would still be the case I think.

EXAMPLE:
Tonight at Gander Mtn. I was looking at the ammo prices and a regular box of 44mag, 50 rounds, nothing special or high tech, it was priced at a bit over $60!


Agree?

Thank you again.

Larry
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:08   #3
ronin.45
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Obviously the size of the hog can make a big difference in caliber selection. If pigs in your area are small to medium size then a .45 ACP may be plenty with proper load selection. If you have bigger hogs or just want more power, the Super or 10mm would be good choices. Production ammo is much more available for 10mm and it can have an edge in power. The real benefit of .45Super is that you can shoot it in ACP guns usually with just a spring swap. I am a lover of S&W 625s and they can shoot Super with no issues.

Reloading offers a big advantage in having ammo available and tailoring loads to your needs.

A Glock 21 is a good pick. You could shoot ACP, change springs for Super, and buy a 10mm longslide to swap.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:21   #4
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The .45 Super is available through a few online businesses like Underwood ammo, Buffalo Bore ammo and DoubleTap ammo. It's the same size as the .45 ACP, just loaded past .45 ACP +P ballistics, it's basically just a higher pressure .45 ACP. All three companies above state that it's safe to shoot their .45 Super in a Glock handgun.

How does it compare to the 10mm? Well, I have both and both are good cartridges. The 10mm can certainly work on hogs and like the .45 Super, you would want to buy your ammo online at a place like Underwood ammo. The short of it as far as availability goes, with either one you had better get used to buying your ammo over the internet or get into reloading.

Offerings for the 10mm include a 180gr at 1300 fps, a 200gr at 1250 fps or something odd like a 220gr at 1200 fps and all would work for hogs. The .45 Super will shoot bigger and heavier bullets, which is always a plus. Several places offer a 230gr at 1100 fps and Buffalo Bore offers a 255gr at almost 1100 fps. I would choose the 255gr hardcast from Buffalo Bore if you wanted a big hole and deep penetration on animals.

You can't really go wrong with either, but if you already have a .45 then I'd stick to the .45 Super. Everybody has their own opinion, but I prefer the .45 Super to the 10mm. I reload for it and shoot 250gr, 275gr and 300gr bullets out of it with between 850-900 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. You won't get those ballistics buying .45 Super online, but it will still be very effective.

Basically I load the .45 Super to 460 Rowland level performance. The 460 Rowland is another option, but you will need an aftermarket barrel to shoot it because it won't chamber in a .45 ACP gun, the brass is longer. Then there's the idea of the .40 Super too, which is a .45 Winchester Magnum shortened in length and necked down to .40 cal. All of which (.45 Super, 460 Rowland and 40 Super) can be shot from the G21 platform, you'll just need different barrels for the Rowland and .40 Super.

From a price perspective, I think it makes more sense to stay with the .45 Super if you already have a .45 ACP, that way to don't have to buy any more barrels or guns chambered in something else. Hope this helps you. And you might want to post this over in caliber corner.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:46   #5
Arnold Kuhl
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.45 Super

About to try my G21SF w/ KKM stock-length bbl., Wolff 22 lb. recoil spring, and Wolff SS guide rod. Tomorrow.

Will report results. Will be shooting Underwood .45 Super, 230gr. HP/XTP, and .45ACP+P 230gr. HP/XTP.

First time shooting the .45 Super. Need to take some fruit to the range to vaporize. Like to get a pumpkin, but they're not in season yet. Maybe a melon. Should be fun.

AK
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:19   #6
Nalapombu
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WOW!!

Thanks for all the info fellas. I appreciate it. I knew you all would know what I was asking about and be able to school me a bit on it.
Gonna do some reading on these rounds. Looks interesting.

Right now I do have 2 Colt 1911's that I love, but I don't have a Glock 21...yet. If this is as good as what it looks like right now, I may have to go with that G21 and the 45Super round. Sounds like great fun on a hog.

One other pistol I thought of when thinking about that caliber, the S&W 4506. I've always like it even though it's a BRUISER of a handgun. They are pretty pricey though if you can find a nice one.
Of course there is also the S&W 1006 for the 10mm. Those 3rd Gen S&W pistols always did get my blood circulating.

If I was to get a 4506, would I still be able to shoot the 45 Super with a spring swap? I don't suppose those other calibers you mentioned would be that easy to shoot in it though as I'd have to find a CUSTOM barrel for each one wouldn't I? That sounds awfully expensive.....

Oh well...we all have to dream a bit at some point of each day.

Please do post the results of your testing Arnold. PICS too. I wanna see your G21 rigged out.

Thanks guys.

Nalajr
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:06   #7
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I'm pretty sure a guy or two on here uses the 4506 to shoot the .45 Super. I don't see why it would be a problem at all, I hear they're robust guns. I don't the know the how well the chamber support is on your Colt 1911's, but they should handle the Super as well with a higher spring weight.

Here's my .45 Super G21:
General Firearms Forum

General Firearms Forum

The comp really helps the recoil in the .45 Super and makes shooting regular .45 ACP's feel like a 9mm or less.
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Old 08-29-2013, 15:09   #8
Arnold Kuhl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalapombu View Post
WOW!!

Thanks for all the info fellas. I appreciate it. I knew you all would know what I was asking about and be able to school me a bit on it.
Gonna do some reading on these rounds. Looks interesting.

Right now I do have 2 Colt 1911's that I love, but I don't have a Glock 21...yet. If this is as good as what it looks like right now, I may have to go with that G21 and the 45Super round. Sounds like great fun on a hog.

One other pistol I thought of when thinking about that caliber, the S&W 4506. I've always like it even though it's a BRUISER of a handgun. They are pretty pricey though if you can find a nice one.
Of course there is also the S&W 1006 for the 10mm. Those 3rd Gen S&W pistols always did get my blood circulating.

If I was to get a 4506, would I still be able to shoot the 45 Super with a spring swap? I don't suppose those other calibers you mentioned would be that easy to shoot in it though as I'd have to find a CUSTOM barrel for each one wouldn't I? That sounds awfully expensive.....

Oh well...we all have to dream a bit at some point of each day.

Please do post the results of your testing Arnold. PICS too. I wanna see your G21 rigged out.

Thanks guys.

Nalajr
Last time I tried to post some pics, the cybergods told me I didn't have authorization, not enough memory, or some such nonsense.

Anyway, my G21SF aint' near as sexy-lookin' as SDGlock23's gun, so I'm almost ashamed to pictorialize (is that a word?) it.

The good news is my plebian-looking G21SF did JUST FINE with the MONSTER this morning. Well, it was a monster to me. Haven't shot anything like that since the last time I shot full-power .357mag in my Model 66, over 10 years ago. I have a stock-length KKM barrel (I am impressed with this barrel), plus Wolff 22-lb. recoil spring and stainless steel guide rod. The gun bucked pretty good; takes some getting used to. If I shot my G22 (.357SIG) right now, it would seem mild, I'm sure). I killed a milk jug full of water; the jug was atomized by the Super. I believe there are some that use the .45Super for hogs, and I can see why they would. This thing is POWER!

The rounds (Underwood) were accurate as can be at about 12 yards, and the spent brass flew into the next zip code. I need to order some Super brass from Starline (THE best brass you can get), and start reloading the Super. I do wish I had a comp for my Glock, but then I'd have to buy another bbl. I DO have a S&W 625 .45ACP revolver, which I believe can handle the Super. Maybe I'll try it next time.

I'll see if wife can help with pics.

Regards,
AK

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Old 08-29-2013, 15:16   #9
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Ive put down a few hogs with my 1911 with pure copper Barnes 185+P's without any trouble. They were all up close and personal!
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Old 08-29-2013, 15:19   #10
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I think the 10mm, is a better hunting gun.
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Old 08-29-2013, 16:53   #11
Arnold Kuhl
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
I think the 10mm, is a better hunting gun.
If I ever get lucky enough to go hog hunting again, I'll first get up close and personal with my target, and put it to him thusly: "Say, would you rather I vaporize your ass with a .45 Super or a 10mm?" If he says "I'll take the 10mm," and I happen to only have my G21SF, I'll just let him go on his merry way.

AK
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Old 08-29-2013, 18:44   #12
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Not an expert on hog hunting - and I did not even stay at a Super "8" last night.

But give me a hot loaded 230 gr hardcast 45 ACP over a run of the mill SD JHP in 10 MM

Wild animals have thick hides and dense bones - the bullet is also important.

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Old 08-29-2013, 19:10   #13
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I have shot over 50 hogs with handguns from 357 Mag to 50AE and a pile of different calibers inbetween. By far, the very worst performing round was the 45 ACP, and I seriously doubt speeding it up a bit is going to help much. 45 ACP bullets don't have very good sectional density, ie "shank". They are too large in diamter, too short, and not moving fast enough to penetrate on "real" hogs.

The guys that have dropped hogs with 45's are not shooting the ones with thick armor plate under the hide. They are shooting Wilbur the pig. When you skin real hogs, you have to split the hide down the center of the back and peel each hide panel off as a seperate piece. It's like filleting off a pair of 2" thick pieces of marine plywood.

I have had bullets from 41 magnums and 45 Winchester Magnums simply flaten out on impact and turn into lead nickels, like the bullet hit a flat steel plate.

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Old 08-30-2013, 07:45   #14
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"I have had bullets from 41 magnums and 45 Winchester Magnums simply flaten out on impact and turn into lead nickels, like the bullet hit a flat steel plate."

I have heard for many years that SOME hogs are built like tanks. A good friend from Tampa, ex-hunting bud, told me several times about the time he shot a Florida hog 4 TIMES with a .30-30 Marlin. The hog was trying to charge my friend with 3 slugs in him, and so it took one more .30-30 slug to end it. So this must have been one of the armor-plated hogs to which you're referring.

How do you think a .45 Super, loaded with Power Pistol, pretty damn hot, with 255 gr. hard cast bullet would do? Just curious. Where's the best place to aim at for a hog like this?

AK
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Old 08-30-2013, 16:49   #15
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I'm a 10mm shooter and I like the round. My hog loads at 200gn XTP's JHP @ 1300fps. I've used them and tested them on hogs. They are devastating out to 30 yards or so and very flat shooting. I only shoot hogs with friends as varmint control. I don't call it hunting and don't think of it as hunting. And honestly,,, I dislike shooting them. I'm a Razorback Fan.

Hogs can be tricky to drop and drop dead. You hit them in the heart of the shoulder or the top of the head your going to wish that shot had been with a 500mag or some bad ass bolt rifle.

Of the so called wildcat rounds you mention. They can all be good. And all lend themselves well to the reloading bench or Underwood Ammo.

Myself, I will be picking up a Gen 3 31 .357 sig here in a week or so. I have a love for the wildcat born rounds. And a fav. of my is the 7.62 x 25 for my CZ-52. And I have dropped hogs with that pistol and surplus ball.

I'm kind of liking the looks of the .40 Super.
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Old 08-31-2013, 00:23   #16
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Between my dad my uncle and I we have taken a ton of hogs with pistols mostly all 44 mag back in the day my dad used a 357 but once 44 mag became popular he switched said it was like night and day mind you he made the switch in the 80s. I too have been very interested in 45 super I keep meaning to buy a Glock 21 to try it out the numbers for that round look very interesting I just haven't had a reason to fix something that is not broken but the extra ammo in the Glock would be nice plus I'm left-handed so reloading a revolver is always kind of a pain when I'm trying to do it fast





Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:07   #17
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If you insist on hunting with a .45 ACP/.45 Super, then get a SW 625 revolver. No springs swapping required to switch between .45ACP, .45ACP +P and .45 Super. Not to mention the superb mechanical accuracy that you will need for hunting.
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:16   #18
Arnold Kuhl
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If you insist on hunting with a .45 ACP/.45 Super, then get a SW 625 revolver. No springs swapping required to switch between .45ACP, .45ACP +P and .45 Super. Not to mention the superb mechanical accuracy that you will need for hunting.
My 625 is a SUPERB firearm. Very versatile. Will try a few Underwood .45Supers next trip to the range. As for the G21SF, I used 22 lb. Wolff recoil spring & SS guide rod, with KKM bbl. After I shot a few Supers, I loaded a mag of regular old .45ACP 230gr. hardball, reloaded with Power Pistol, medium strength, and the gun shot just fine. No need to change back to stock RSA on the G21SF. Good news. I can leave the Glock as it is.

I guess the reason I don't shoot the 625 much anymore is that it's a ***** to clean. But it is dead-on with just about any load, so we'll see what it can do with the Super. Will report findings.

Regards,
AK
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Old 08-31-2013, 22:00   #19
Nalapombu
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Thanks all for the info. Really interesting stuff.

GREAT LOOKING Glocks too.

I like the idea of being able to get a G21 and then get a barrel and springs (and maybe a slide, I don't know) and be able to shoot all the 45ACP stuff AND swap to the 10mm round. Now that's cool.

I also like the Wheelguns too. I've been wanting a Blackhawk for hog hunting too. One of my dream guns is a Reeder Custom Improved #5, a copy of the Texas Longhorn Arms #5 that was built for Elmer Keith. What a GORGEOUS pistol..
Check it out here:

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/revolvers/number5.htm

Tell me that wouldn't be a HONEY to have on your belt in the woods chasing gnarly hogs...

C'mon and lets see more pics of those Custom Glocks. I'd really like to see one that has the TACTICAL length slide and barrel on it.

Thanks all.

Nalajr
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:25   #20
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If it were me I'd be using a Blackhawk with hot .45 Colt loads or a .44 magnum minimum. I'd probably use one of my Super Redhawks in .454 Casull. Than again, nobody has ever accused me of being under gunned.
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