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Old 08-28-2013, 21:03   #201
M&P15T
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Folks who have never stood a perimeter and can hardly understand the basics of containment....


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Really? That's your next argument? No one but you and yours can understand what happened?

Like, you couldn't take a few minutes, describe how such situations work? I'm imagining that with the proper description, virtually everyone here could grasp the concept.

Something like......"Well, we stand around the area our boss tells us to, and then make sure the bad guy doesn't get out. We look, and listen.....and then look and listen some more. Then other guys go in and look for him."
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:04   #202
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Ring the bell. We have a winner. The primary goal may have been capture, but certainly containment was a secondary goal.
Which failed.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:04   #203
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Really? That's your next argument? No one but you and yours can understand what happened?

Like, you couldn't take a few minutes, describe how such situations work? I'm imagining that with the proper description, virtually everyone here could grasp the concept.
I'm asking you: based on your training and experience, how best to handle it.

Perimeter and containment is my department policy.


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Old 08-28-2013, 21:05   #204
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Which failed.
Captured is failure. Ok then.


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Old 08-28-2013, 21:10   #205
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Captured is failure. Ok then.


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That's not what I posted.

The LEOs DID NOT FIND THE BAD GUY.

That is fact, pure fact.

The kid would have bled-out and died, or possibly escaped, had some guy not gone out for a smoke.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:11   #206
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That's not what I posted.

The LEOs DID NOT FIND THE BAD GUY.

That is fact, pure fact.

The kid would have bled-out and died, or possibly escaped, had some guy not gone out for a smoke.
Go ahead and elaborate on your plan, please.


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Old 08-28-2013, 21:12   #207
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Really? That's your next argument? No one but you and yours can understand what happened?

Like, you couldn't take a few minutes, describe how such situations work? I'm imagining that with the proper description, virtually everyone here could grasp the concept.

Something like......"Well, we stand around the area our boss tells us to, and then make sure the bad guy doesn't get out. We look, and listen.....and then look and listen some more. Then other guys go in and look for him."
I don't think you should be talking about grasping concepts with your fail concerning my request. It's not your night for the whole "conceptualization" thing
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:13   #208
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I'm asking you: based on your training and experience, how best to handle it.

Perimeter and containment is my department policy.


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Did I say I had any training or experience? My asking YOU to share your knowledge with us, kinda points in the direction that it would be safe to assume that I have none.

But no, you have to join the GBDC.

Buzzzzzzzz-buzzz-buzz.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:14   #209
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I don't think you should be talking about grasping concepts with your fail concerning my request. It's not your night for the whole "conceptualization" thing
Yeah....o.k.....whatever you say pardner.

I just love your folksy wisdom and sticktoitiveness.....

You're such a peach.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:15   #210
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Did I say I had any training or experience? My asking YOU to share your knowledge with us, kinda points in the direction that it would be safe to assume that I have none.

But no, you have to join the GBDC.

Buzzzzzzzz-buzzz-buzz.
Now we're flipping the script.


So you know NOTHING, but have plenty of opinion to offer??


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Old 08-28-2013, 21:16   #211
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Which failed.
He did not escape. His escape would have been failure.

He was captured. That was the successful accomplishment of the primary goal.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:19   #212
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He did not escape. His escape would have been failure.

He was captured. That was the successful accomplishment of the primary goal.
No, the primary goal was the preservation of innocent life and the forestalling of additional attacks. That was successful as well. I just wanted to be clear on the point.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:19   #213
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Yeah....o.k.....whatever you say pardner.

I just love your folksy wisdom and sticktoitiveness.....

You're such a peach.
So have you found the Cliff's notes for my post yet with the question spelled out for ?

Oh, wait, that was a question and you don't answer those.

just treat it like the rest then and pretend you didn't understand.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:20   #214
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Go ahead and elaborate on your plan, please.


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What plan?

I'm sorry, did I say I had one? Wait....in fact, I think I already said that it was a tough situation, with no easy answers. And I also think I posted that it's healthy to discuss these things, and question what happened, without ever trying to postulate a better way of doing things.

On second thought....yes, I'm sure that's what I posted.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:21   #215
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Really? That's your next argument? No one but you and yours can understand what happened?

Like, you couldn't take a few minutes, describe how such situations work? I'm imagining that with the proper description, virtually everyone here could grasp the concept.

Something like......"Well, we stand around the area our boss tells us to, and then make sure the bad guy doesn't get out. We look, and listen.....and then look and listen some more. Then other guys go in and look for him."
No one but you and yours can understand what happened?



Specifically, that portion of your statement. Lets hear it, slick.




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Old 08-28-2013, 21:22   #216
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You've got a ton of other questions to answer, ill wait.




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Old 08-28-2013, 21:24   #217
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So have you found the Cliff's notes for my post yet with the question spelled out for ?

Oh, wait, that was a question and you don't answer those.

just treat it like the rest then and pretend you didn't understand.
Son, ask the question again, and I promise you, I will answer it.

You gonna take the bait? Buzzzz-buzz-buzz.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:27   #218
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No one but you and yours can understand what happened?



Specifically, that portion of your statement. Lets hear it, slick.
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You've got a ton of other questions to answer, ill wait.
Do you know what a "question" is? Because I don't see one. I see where you quoted my question, and then followed it with some jibberish.

Ask me a direct question, and I will answer it.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:30   #219
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Son, ask the question again, and I promise you, I will answer it.

You gonna take the bait? Buzzzz-buzz-buzz.
Sorry, I am not like your parents, your teachers in school and everyone who has always given you the answers. That is what allowed you to get by so far. This time you are going to have to read the source material and show your work.

I know it seems harsh, but it will do you good to read and comprehend all by yourself.
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:32   #220
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Do you know what a "question" is? Because I don't see one. I see where you quoted my question, and then followed it with some jibberish.

Ask me a direct question, and I will answer it.
For the third time. What would be your plan?


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Old 08-28-2013, 21:34   #221
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For the third time. What would be your plan?


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I didn't say I have one, nor do I.

What's your point?

But, did you, perchance, miss my post where I answered that I had no experience or training?

By the way, how long have you been a LEO?
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Old 08-28-2013, 21:36   #222
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You know...this is a topic about LE actions and a few want to act offended that LE responds. Given this stuff is what we do of course we will be active in the topic since we have experience in similar matters.

As for the 'plan'...if the guy did not show up in the next town over it worked. You put enough people in the area so they cannot freely move about. You force them to lay down and continue flooding the area until they are located or make a mistake revealing their position.

On top of that, if you can't provide a better solution and you don't understand the relevant legal issues at hand then how can you critique what happened in good faith?

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Old 08-28-2013, 21:41   #223
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I didn't say I have one, nor do I.

What's your point?

But, did you, perchance, miss my post where I answered that I had no experience or training?

By the way, how long have you been a LEO?
Ok. So you don't know what you're taking about but offer an opinion.


Got it.


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Old 08-28-2013, 21:42   #224
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I didn't say I have one, nor do I.

What's your point?

But, did you, perchance, miss my post where I answered that I had no experience or training?

By the way, how long have you been a LEO?
Long enough.


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Old 08-28-2013, 21:42   #225
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Something like......"Well, we stand around the area our boss tells us to, and then make sure the bad guy doesn't get out. We look, and listen.....and then look and listen some more. Then other guys go in and look for him."
Did you participate in the earlier threads about the search?In two, maybe three of those I described the on-scene deployment of resources in the early morning hours on the day of the search.

This is what I heard listening to radio traffic that morning.

The command center was set up at the shopping center. The area was divided into several zones with a senior commander over each. Each zone had a portion of the perimeter surrounding the gross search area. That perimeter was manned by officers in patrol cars spaced short distances apart, no more than 40 yards at the most and that was only two points if my memory is correct. Those units were fixed observation points. They were responsible for stopping any person or vehicle exiting the area, and they did. No one came out unchallenged.

Within the perimeter were the search teams responsible for the door to door work. Just behind those teams, staged around the perimeter were K9 units assigned to each zone. Behind them were EOD and SWAT units.

Beginning early, before sunrise, there were supervisor units patrolling just outside the perimeter. These units also delivered food, water and supplies to officers on and inside the perimeter.

So, yes, the perimeter, and the area outside the perimeter had a constant police presence with the fixed observation units, the staged K9s, the EOD and the SWAT teams.

There was a buffer area around the search area, not a single strand of police tape wrapped around trees.
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