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Old 08-28-2013, 22:06   #251
RussP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
That's YOUR definition of failure.

Not mine.

And the primary, or any goal, was accomplished due to a guy out on his back porch for a smoke.
Why was the suspect unable to leave the area?

When did the suspect enter the boat?

Did the boat owner look at his boat prior to going into the back yard?

When did the police come through the area the first time?

Where exactly did they search?

Where was the perimeter in relation to the boat?

Help us understand, with facts, how the police missed the guy in the boat.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:09   #252
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Something like......"Well, we stand around the area our boss tells us to, and then make sure the bad guy doesn't get out. We look, and listen.....and then look and listen some more. Then other guys go in and look for him."
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Did you participate in the earlier threads about the search?

In two, maybe three of those I described the on-scene deployment of resources in the early morning hours on the day of the search.

This is what I heard listening to radio traffic that morning.

The command center was set up at the shopping center. The area was divided into several zones with a senior commander over each. Each zone had a portion of the perimeter surrounding the gross search area. That perimeter was manned by officers in patrol cars spaced short distances apart, no more than 40 yards at the most and that was only two points if my memory is correct. Those units were fixed observation points. They were responsible for stopping any person or vehicle exiting the area, and they did. No one came out unchallenged.

Within the perimeter were the search teams responsible for the door to door work. Just behind those teams, staged around the perimeter were K9 units assigned to each zone. Behind them were EOD and SWAT units.

Beginning early, before sunrise, there were supervisor units patrolling just outside the perimeter. These units also delivered food, water and supplies to officers on and inside the perimeter.

So, yes, the perimeter, and the area outside the perimeter had a constant police presence with the fixed observation units, the staged K9s, the EOD and the SWAT teams.

There was a buffer area around the search area, not a single strand of police tape wrapped around trees.
Guess you missed this...
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:10   #253
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So much raw emotion in the air! You can cut the tension with a knife.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:14   #254
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Amazing that someone can admit they don't know anything about such operations and yet claim that the people who conduct them are wrong. This actually make sense in their minds.

I think we have raised a generation that feels no shame in shooting their mouths of about something they know nothing about because they were taught they had the right to free speech, but nobody connected that to the responsibility of being cogent.
Please....go back and quote where I said the LEOs did anything wrong.

Just try.....you can do it.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:17   #255
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Seriously though folks, it's a shame. we have a purported adult her who thinks things he knows nothing about were done wrong, he doesn't have a clue about how they could have been done. he has no experience in the matter and he refuses to learn from those who do.

Despite seeing people like him, we can still wonder how it is voters are so manipulated?

He thinks ignorance is the path to freedom.
Wait....are you drinking right now?

You haven't missed that I never said anything was done wrong, or where I readily admitted I knew nothing....right?
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:18   #256
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Why was the suspect unable to leave the area?

When did the suspect enter the boat?

Did the boat owner look at his boat prior to going into the back yard?

When did the police come through the area the first time?

Where exactly did they search?

Where was the perimeter in relation to the boat?

Help us understand, with facts, how the police missed the guy in the boat.
Uh....a guy out for a smoke found him? And the police perimeter was across the street? This is all out there for you to find, I'm not going to do your homework for you.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:18   #257
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It's guys like you who are free to come up to northeast Ohio to my gym and throw the gloves on.



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Gloves? No you must be confused. It's socks. He is just a sock puppet for a couple of others around here.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:19   #258
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Never knew my mom son, she died a few days after I was born.

But, you didn't know that, so no hard feelings.

It just goes to show what happens when one assumes, even when just trying to make an insulting, made-up observation.
Last December your mother was alive. You posted here about her.

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Old 08-28-2013, 22:20   #259
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Guess you missed this...
Probably........but then I wasn't asking you, or looking for your input.

I was having a discussion with another poster.

Was there a point you were trying to make?
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:21   #260
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Last December your mother was alive. You posted here about her.

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I call her my mother. She is actually my Aunt, my Mother's sister. She's been like a Mother to me all my life.

If you go back and find that thread, probably about her stroke last fall, I might have mentioned that fact. If not, there you go.

But, it's classy to question someone on such a delicate topic.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:22   #261
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I call her my mother. She is actually my Aunt, my Mother's sister. She's been like a Mother to me all my life.

If you go back and find that thread, probably about her stroke last fall, I might have mentioned that fact. If not, there you go.
These aren't my pants....


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Old 08-28-2013, 22:23   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Please....go back and quote where I said the LEOs did anything wrong.

Just try.....you can do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Wait....are you drinking right now?

You haven't missed that I never said anything was done wrong, or where I readily admitted I knew nothing....right?
Your first post? You plainly said the liberals in Boston don't recognize it was wrong because they have been 'conditioned'....anyone who thinks it wasn't wrong was a sheeple....and you expect the lawsuits to fly once the 'hero worship' wears off.

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FWIW, I think that the people of Boston are so liberal that they don't even recognize what happened as being wrong. By-and-large, they're sheeple who have been conditioned to bow to "authority" and not question it. And anyone that wants to dispute that the neighborhood was put on lock-down, and that searches without warrants were done, is nothing but a retard.

And those that think that what happened is somehow o.k.? Christ, I don't even know what to say......just more sheeple toeing the line.

And yes, if I lived in that neighborhood when that went down, and LEOs tried to force their way into my home to conduct a search, things would have gotten ugly. And I do believe that law-suits are going to fly in the next year or so. Right now, the whole thing was so much of a positive for LEOs, a smart lawyer will let things go for awhile, until the LEO hero-worshiping is well and truly over.

Last edited by ray9898; 08-28-2013 at 22:29..
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:24   #263
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Gloves? No you must be confused. It's socks. He is just a sock puppet for a couple of others around here.


I'm a puppet only for myself.

What was that question you were going to ask? Or quote, or....I dunno, somehow bring to bear?
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:30   #264
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Your first post? You plainly said the liberals in Boston don't recognize it was wrong because they have been 'conditioned'....anyone who thinks it wasn't wrong was a retard....and you expect the lawsuits to fly once the 'hero worship' wears off.
Ray, if you're going to jump in, you'd better know what you're replying to.

You're missing many posts, not following the conversations.

The posts of mine you quoted were my observations about searches without warrants and the neighborhood lock-down. Many pages of thread later, the conversation has turned to discussion of the search perimeters and the guy that actually found the B.G. When I posted that I never said the LEOs did anything wrong, I was answering a challenge about how/where the LEOs set-up their perimeter, and the fact that the BG was found by a civilian outside of the search area.....not about searches without warrants and the lock-down in the neighborhood.

Two totally different topics of conversation.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:32   #265
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These aren't my pants....


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What?
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:52   #266
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Well, good-night GNG.

I'm glad to see the usual bullying, bloated egos and insults are still the main-stay.
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Old 08-28-2013, 22:54   #267
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Well, good-night GNG.

I'm glad to see the usual bullying, bloated egos and insults are still the main-stay.
That's why you keep coming back.
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Old 08-28-2013, 23:29   #268
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I respond to these type topics because I believe routinely only one side of the story would be portrayed on here. I fully understand I will never change the opinion of some of the people in this discussion but I refuse to let some inaccuracies go unchallenged because it is read by countless people. Instead of all those readers thinking "well the cops were wrong because I read it on GT" now they know more about what a successful search perimeter is, what exigent circumstances are and they can see what the real life opinions of those with specific training and experience in that field are.

While I have never experienced anything as dramatic as the Boston situation I have been tasked with searching for armed men who were trying to avoid apprehension several times. It truly sucks and I know what it is like in the real world which is why I understand these so called perfect plans thought up after the fact by those with no real world experience will fail.
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Old 08-28-2013, 23:42   #269
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Question for the "Recon by fire" crew. We all know officer safety always comes first, that is a given. While bearing that in mind, don't you still think it would be better to take him alive? It's good to leave someone to question. I'm sure someone thought of that. I know it was a "dynamic tactical op" and all, but when they got the call to come back, why was the first action to shoot the boat? Because there was no shark to jump?

Last edited by eyelikeglasses; 08-29-2013 at 00:27.. Reason: Butthurt!
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Old 08-28-2013, 23:58   #270
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Well just to clear the air here because you are dealing with some folks here who are trained and experienced at finding the truth, some of them do it for a living.

When you said,


Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Never knew my mom son, she died a few days after I was born.

But, you didn't know that, so no hard feelings.

It just goes to show what happens when one assumes, even when just trying to make an insulting, made-up observation.
BTW "Son" ? hardly I'm older than you.

and you cleared it up with,



Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
I call her my mother. She is actually my Aunt, my Mother's sister. She's been like a Mother to me all my life.

If you go back and find that thread, probably about her stroke last fall, I might have mentioned that fact. If not, there you go.

But, it's classy to question someone on such a delicate topic.
You weren't talking about the "Mom" you mentioned in this thread

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1496988

??

OK that is understandable actually, some people tend to be rather vague and in exact in terms of familial relations and such. Certainly my autistic step-daughter calls me "Dad" and her much older sister does too (usually when she needs money) but that's cool.

but you can see how someone used to weeding the truth out of frequent gardens of lies can be confused when you say something like This,


Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Ray, if you're going to jump in, you'd better know what you're replying to.

You're missing many posts, not following the conversations.

The posts of mine you quoted were my observations about searches without warrants and the neighborhood lock-down. Many pages of thread later, the conversation has turned to discussion of the search perimeters and the guy that actually found the B.G. When I posted that I never said the LEOs did anything wrong, I was answering a challenge about how/where the LEOs set-up their perimeter, and the fact that the BG was found by a civilian outside of the search area.....not about searches without warrants and the lock-down in the neighborhood.

Two totally different topics of conversation.
After you have said,


Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
That's YOUR definition of failure.

Not mine.

And the primary, or any goal, was accomplished due to a guy out on his back porch for a smoke.
and


Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Don't get flustered OP.

I've read this entire thread. You're facing the same 3-5 people whose egos are the size of blimps, and love to call people ignorant to make themselves feel better.

This forum is like a children's play-ground, just a bunch of losers running around calling other people names. There's a juvenile "hive" mentality here you just have to come to grips with. Once a generalized opinion is found through trial and insulting error, everyone jumps on the group-think band-wagon, and a GNG beat-down ensues. Not many folks here can think for themselves once the hive mentality takes over, they just follow the line.

FWIW, I think that the people of Boston are so liberal that they don't even recognize what happened as being wrong. By-and-large, they're sheeple who have been conditioned to bow to "authority" and not question it. And anyone that wants to dispute that the neighborhood was put on lock-down, and that searches without warrants were done, is nothing but a retard.

And those that think that what happened is somehow o.k.? Christ, I don't even know what to say......just more sheeple toeing the line.

And yes, if I lived in that neighborhood when that went down, and LEOs tried to force their way into my home to conduct a search, things would have gotten ugly. And I do believe that law-suits are going to fly in the next year or so. Right now, the whole thing was so much of a positive for LEOs, a smart lawyer will let things go for awhile, until the LEO hero-worshiping is well and truly over.
It really does look like you had said a lot of things were wrong, It sure appears as though you said the tactics failed and their searches were wrong, so which part was it you were saying WASN'T "wrong" ?


And here is the funny part, after calling every cop involved, every forum member who doesn't agree AND the people of BOSTON all kinds of names you ask,

Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Let me get this straight.

Your best argument is an emotional appeal/attack, citing the fact that innocent people died, and using that fact to chide those that don't accept what happened in the ensuing manhunt?

So, it's just MSM time? Just throwing out emotional appeals, masquerading your attacks on peoples view of what happened?

Look, there was no easy answer as to how to find a apprehend this guy, no doubt. But we should support our fellow citizens questioning of what happened during the manhunt. If we don't pay attention and question things, and hold "authority" accountable, then we truly are in a bad place.
for people that you have insulted to support questioning of what happened? When you really have no clue about what happened yourself? Further it was the people of BOSTON, not you who were impacted and they seem to be handling it well, yet you want to stand on the outside yelling at the cops for doing everything wrong, the people of Boston for not doing something you think they should, and everybody who doesn't agree with you gets called a names.

It seems like everybody you call names in those groups actually has more experience with the general topic and some with the specific incident than you do.

But you go on tell the world how it should do things.
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Old 08-29-2013, 00:17   #271
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:56   #272
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M&P15T, if we question things because there iis a reason, that's great. If we question for irrational reasons and based on rumors that an intelligent person would not consider credible, we are just conspiracy nuts and our opinions are not worthy of respect or support. That is the problem that separates most people from the tinfoil hatters who cry wolf with little or no reason.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:55   #273
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Question for the "Recon by fire" crew. We all know officer safety always comes first, that is a given. While bearing that in mind, don't you still think it would be better to take him alive? It's good to leave someone to question. I'm sure someone thought of that. I know it was a "dynamic tactical op" and all, but when they got the call to come back, why was the first action to shoot the boat? Because there was no shark to jump?
I guess you missed the part where he was taken alive?

Maybe you and your vast knowledge pool could be a consultant,......you; the guy who does not know how FLIR works or the limitations of the system...

Oh and if officer safety came first they would have just left the area.


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Old 08-29-2013, 05:00   #274
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:30   #275
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No pictures of either brother setting the pack down. Only one picture of the younger standing at the site but, proven it was photoshopped. Now there's plenty of pics and vids of the craft international guy, with and without his backpack. I can understand the anger and fear of the Leo's on the scene. It was a drill/training exercise and nothing more that turned ugly. They got played, hosed and used as unwilling pawns. now forced to ask the question, who do I really work for? could I be the next victim? what if they think I saw something?
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