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Old 07-18-2013, 08:36   #1
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Texas LEOs - question from a non-LE

You pull someone over, run their license - with the equipment you're using, is there any point in time where you'd see just that additional information was available, and that additional information might be that someone has a CHL, and it might be that they have warrants, before pulling that additional info up?

(I'm trying to determine if something I read on the net somewhere is true or just another case of "I read it on the internet". I posted a thread in carry issues, but talked too much :D )

Thanks.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:15   #2
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Depends on the system used. Some agencies still get information over the radio from dispatch. Others have laptops that can pull up the information.

Other than that what question are you asking exactly?
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:23   #3
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Depends on the system used. Some agencies still get information over the radio from dispatch. Others have laptops that can pull up the information.

Other than that what question are you asking exactly?
There was a post on a site somewhere where someone claimed that when a license is run, the officer sees the info come back, and if you have a CHL, there's a little * indicating more information is available, and that this * indicating more information is available is also present when the person run has warrants. The idea being that when the officer first sees that, they're not going to know whether or not it's 'this guy has warrants' or 'This guy has a CHL' until they pull up another screen.

Just trying to determine if that is true or not, given that it sounds like it might be plausible (as a computer programmer, I could see someone somewhere designing something that way, although I don't really think it's the best design for that) but ... this is the internet, and it also sounds like it could be internet B.S.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:55   #4
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Are you talking our unit's MCT information that we see, what is possible for us to see or what our dispatchers see?
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:19   #5
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What you can see.

Edit: well, I guess what you can see on whatever equipment you have in your car/in hand/with you.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:28   #6
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When I run someone there isn't a thing to click to see if there is more or not. I get a message that the person has a CHL. At the same time if a person has a warrant then that is shown as well. There isn't a "click here to continue" button or anything like that on our system. But like I said in my first post, others might be different.

Are you worried about having a warrant?
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:33   #7
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Ok, so it's probably a case of "everything's true on the internet", it seems.

Thanks for taking the time on me. Sometimes I see claims like that and get a bug to verify ... sometimes I should probably let that bug fly away.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:39   #8
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Are you worried about having a warrant?
No, not at all. Actually, I have a CHL in the mail (DPS site shows everything green and 'Mailed'), but haven't received it yet.

I haven't been pulled over in nine or ten years so the odds that it will even matter (that I'd even get pulled over before my CHL arrives) are ridiculously low, so I'm not worried about it actually happening, but the theoretical concern is "Do you tell the LEO beforehand, or wait until he asks", since the info coming back could show a CHL before you have it in hand. The post I saw was an old thread on a different site somewhere, and someone had said the officer might see his screen and just an asterisk indicating more available info, and it might be the case the officer sees that more for warrants than for CHL.

and that's when the bug to find out if that was really true flew into my ear.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:52   #9
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"Do you tell the LEO beforehand, or wait until he asks", since the info coming back could show a CHL before you have it in hand.

that is totally state specific... check http://handgunlaw.us/ for your state regs.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:58   #10
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that is totally state specific
Absolutely - which is why the thread title queries LEO from my state.

The law in Texas is that I have to present my ID and CHL upon LEO request for ID if I am carrying.

Not carrying, legally I can not say anything, but the advice given in class was first a) why aren't you carrying? (the instructor was big on, you don't buy insurance the night before the fire), then b) to hand over the CHL up front and just let the officer know you weren't armed.
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Old 07-18-2013, 13:01   #11
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No, not at all. Actually, I have a CHL in the mail (DPS site shows everything green and 'Mailed'), but haven't received it yet.

I haven't been pulled over in nine or ten years so the odds that it will even matter (that I'd even get pulled over before my CHL arrives) are ridiculously low, so I'm not worried about it actually happening, but the theoretical concern is "Do you tell the LEO beforehand, or wait until he asks", since the info coming back could show a CHL before you have it in hand. The post I saw was an old thread on a different site somewhere, and someone had said the officer might see his screen and just an asterisk indicating more available info, and it might be the case the officer sees that more for warrants than for CHL.

and that's when the bug to find out if that was really true flew into my ear.
I personally always hand them my CDW with my drivers license and insurance card. Then as I hand it to them I tell them where the weapon is and go from there, never had any issues. btw all of these have been at road safety check points, I dont get pulled over that often.
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Old 07-18-2013, 13:10   #12
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my bad, got caught up reading and didn't follow your title.

i travel a lot and get pulled over, way more often than you. sounds like the TX LEO's are more technical than my experiences...
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Old 07-18-2013, 13:19   #13
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Technical in the sense of going strictly by the law more? Or do you mean something else?

I dunno. If that's what you mean it might just be because of the way I write stuff - I'm a computer programmer and I have this tendency to think about things such that if the law were a computer program, would be an issue, but in a practical, real life situation, probably aren't even if they happen to come up. (Edit: and in a practical, real life actually-happening situation, I don't analyze things that deep)

I figure most if not all LEO just use their best judgment given the situation at hand and the law they know. Although I have no real basis for saying that wrt Texas LEO specifically because the last time I got pulled over by an LEO it wasn't in Texas.
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Old 07-18-2013, 14:25   #14
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It never hurts to tell the officer if you are armed or not. Being honest up front goes a long way.
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Old 07-18-2013, 15:19   #15
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It never hurts to tell the officer if you are armed or not. Being honest up front goes a long way.
Basically my thought, too. I'd rather have the officer know why I don't have it on me up front, and that I'm not armed, than wonder what's going on when he sees the information.

Others have said saying something might come across as overzealous. I can sort of see that, too, depending on what someone actually says.
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Old 07-18-2013, 17:17   #16
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I cannot speak for Texas, but it is my assumption that these systems work similarly in most states.

In my state an inquiry (DL or reg) is sent to the state and then returns are received from multiple sources. There is a reply from DOT with the license or registration information, a reply from the sex offender registry, a reply from the corrections system, and two warrant replies: one NCIC and one in-state. Therefore, at least here, an inquiry about DL status would include warrant information as separate responses from warrant information.
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Old 07-18-2013, 17:25   #17
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If I run your ID/DL on my computer, It will tell me (with a specific pop up) if you have a CHL or Warrant. (or are a sex offender, on some terrorist watch lists, some orders of protection...etc....)

It is not the most accurate system(it seems to do very well at showing what you do have but it also gives a high number of false positive returns based on similar names, so I have to weed through that sometimes) and it doesnt show local warrants (class C warrants, the little things like traffic tickets) so if I want to actually check your local record, a full criminal history, or just compare dispatches return to mine (or confirm a warrant) I call it into dispatch.

but...yeah, If everything is working like it should, within seconds of swiping your ID/DL I will know if you have a CHL or a Warrant. I can also see, in a limited capacity, who else has been running your plate, has made a traffic stop on you, gave you a warning, or cases where you are a victim/witness and in some of those cases, where those things happened.

Those thing are by no means the end of the road though.
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Old 07-18-2013, 17:57   #18
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No, not at all. Actually, I have a CHL in the mail (DPS site shows everything green and 'Mailed'), but haven't received it yet.

I haven't been pulled over in nine or ten years so the odds that it will even matter (that I'd even get pulled over before my CHL arrives) are ridiculously low, so I'm not worried about it actually happening, but the theoretical concern is "Do you tell the LEO beforehand, or wait until he asks", since the info coming back could show a CHL before you have it in hand. The post I saw was an old thread on a different site somewhere, and someone had said the officer might see his screen and just an asterisk indicating more available info, and it might be the case the officer sees that more for warrants than for CHL.

and that's when the bug to find out if that was really true flew into my ear.
Don't forget, you can carry a concealed handgun in your vehicle here in the Great State of Texas, not needing any CHL.

Also, if I run a vehicle's registration at random and there is some want on it, I start getting red flashing warning messages and tone. I just can't remember if that happens with CHL on our system since there are so few in my area. Again, most of our CHL info comes from our dispatchers over the radio.
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Old 07-18-2013, 21:05   #19
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It is not the most accurate system(it seems to do very well at showing what you do have but it also gives a high number of false positive returns based on similar names,
On the citizen's side. This has happened to me many times. Got to the point where I'd arrive without specific base/post/building ID credentials, and present my IDs and say "wrong color".

We used to get 10 to 15 calls a week from creditors looking for a guy with the same full name and same birth date as mine.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:36   #20
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No, not at all. Actually, I have a CHL in the mail (DPS site shows everything green and 'Mailed'), but haven't received it yet.

I haven't been pulled over...
Did it come yet?!?!?!


Have they pulled you over yet!!??!!??


Did you print out the info from the DPS site like I said to???!!!???
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:39   #21
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Hey Void

I hope they taught this in your CHL Class. "On or about your person" includes in the glovebox, consol, under the seat, etc.

Tx Government Code - Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.
Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, Sec. 9.17(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1999.Amended by: Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 1146, Sec. 12A.02, eff. September 1, 2009.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:25   #22
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Did it come yet?!?!?!


Have they pulled you over yet!!??!!??


Did you print out the info from the DPS site like I said to???!!!???
Russ,

Is there an issue with just discussing it? The question I had specifically about whether or not what I read about how the equipment worked was true has been answered at this point.

If there is an issue with discussing it, while I have admitted full knowledge that it's not that likely to ever practically be a real issue, then I can just desist with apologies and someone can lock the thread if that's necessary.

I sometimes just want to verify things. That's all.

Your advice to print the website out wouldn't actually show that it had anything to do with me, as the page with the status has no identifying information on it, there's no way for an officer to tell that I didn't print someone else's status. I would have to show the officer that it was really mine by logging in on my phone or something and that just seems like it's pretty likely an officer would think that was weird - mostly because I think it would be weird for me to even do that.

Halfhitch : yes, they went over that, and yes, I am aware of that legal requirement.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:58   #23
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Your CHL will show up, Texas and National warrants/BOLO will show up. City warrants might show seperatly.

IMHO the internet incidentmight be based on what is called local warrants/city warrants that are seperate from TCIC/NCIC.
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Old 07-21-2013, 21:10   #24
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There was a post on a site somewhere where someone claimed that when a license is run, the officer sees the info come back, and if you have a CHL, there's a little * indicating more information is available, and that this * indicating more information is available is also present when the person run has warrants. The idea being that when the officer first sees that, they're not going to know whether or not it's 'this guy has warrants' or 'This guy has a CHL' until they pull up another screen.

Just trying to determine if that is true or not, given that it sounds like it might be plausible (as a computer programmer, I could see someone somewhere designing something that way, although I don't really think it's the best design for that) but ... this is the internet, and it also sounds like it could be internet B.S.
That's true. On our MDC warrant returns and CHL's flash red and clear returns flash blue/green. Until we pull up the actual CHL screen I can't tell if you have a warrant or a CHL. The CHL screen is separate and tells me all your info as well as what firearms you're licensed to carry.
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