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Old 07-10-2013, 23:35   #151
TBO
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They aren't armed like solders, and don't act like soldiers.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 07-11-2013, 00:29   #152
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Originally Posted by ArtyGuy View Post
While I don't agree with the arrest, I don't see how they are going to argue it is in violation of the 3rd Amendment. Police aren't Soldier-- it' my understanding the reason for the amendment was for something very different. It'll be interesting to see how the lawyer(s) argue it.
I agree. I would have objected to it under the 4th Amendment:The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Obviously they were not soldiers assigned to the house as a barracks. Even given that, soldiers were barracked in homes in the South with the what would be considered martial law now.

On the other hand, they did seize the house and that also comes under the 5th Amendment:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

For forceable eviction from my home, including the violation of my home and the stress involved, my charge is the same as that for a penthouse apartment in Manhattan or $5000 a minute, whichever is more.
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Old 07-11-2013, 00:39   #153
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Originally Posted by Syclone0538 View Post
Breaking and entering, assault, and kidnapping under color of law?
Good call.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investig...s/color_of_law
"...it’s a federal crime for anyone acting under “color of law” willfully to deprive or conspire to deprive a person of a right protected by the Constitution or U.S. law. “Color of law” simply means that the person is using authority given to him or her by a local, state, or federal government agency."

" Most of the cases involved crimes that fell into into five broad areas:
Excessive force;
Sexual assaults;
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:20   #155
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I wonder for how long did the police quarter themselves in the house in question? Did they forciby evict the residents and remove their effects or was there some other goal of the incident? Who has possession of the house now?
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:27   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
I wonder for how long did the police quarter themselves in the house in question? Did they forciby evict the residents and remove their effects or was there some other goal of the incident? Who has possession of the house now?
If you read the suit or the police reports it seems to be at least 4 hours, maybe longer. It is not clear. The "goal" was to get tactical advantage on a house 2 doors down and poorly visible to the house that was occupied.

In reality it appears they were mad because the occupant was in contact with the suspect in a DV incident (coincidentally charges were dropped in the DV case as well). So by taking over his house and arresting him for obstructing, they solved the problem of the occupant (Mitchell) talking to the DV suspect.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:41   #157
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Were they mad or did they have a legitimate safety concern?


Does the guy outside the cellphone store that is being burglarized have a legitimate freedom of speech claim when he warns the guys inside the store that the police are coming down the street, or is that close to the level of unprotected criminal activity?
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Last edited by Bruce M; 07-11-2013 at 12:45..
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:47   #158
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The problem with lawsuits, is that employers are normally sued for actions of the employee. Why? Because there is more money. However, since the employee is not held personally financially in most cases, they employees dont learn and other people see that they as long as they are an employee, they will most likely not be personally sued.

A company I had worked for pulled some shenanigans, and the company was sued. Some of the employees that had participated were also sued. I think losing a lawsuit and having to personally pay between $250k and $500K set a good example. They didnt have the money, but seizure of assets and evictions from their house, along with 30% wage garnishment sent a message. And yes they were guilty of what they were accused of and found guilty of even though everyone of them denied it.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:58   #159
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Leaches target agencies/entities for nuisance lawsuits looking for nuisance payouts.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 07-11-2013, 13:26   #160
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Leaches target agencies/entities for nuisance lawsuits looking for nuisance payouts.
What does material that is dissolved by percolation have to do with anything?
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Old 07-11-2013, 13:31   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
Were they mad or did they have a legitimate safety concern?


Does the guy outside the cellphone store that is being burglarized have a legitimate freedom of speech claim when he warns the guys inside the store that the police are coming down the street, or is that close to the level of unprotected criminal activity?
Like I said earlier. If a cop bad gotten killed because he told the other guy where the police were he would be looking at murder charges.

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Old 07-11-2013, 14:16   #162
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Did I overlook a link to the specific documents -- "police reports" the "news" has reported were "released", or is some article's author's rendition/summary of those actual DRs all there is available as of yet? I really don't have much use for some tv news' restatement of (purported) contents of the actual reports, whether the contents are supposedly being quoted or not.
?
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Old 07-11-2013, 14:18   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
Were they mad or did they have a legitimate safety concern?


Does the guy outside the cellphone store that is being burglarized have a legitimate freedom of speech claim when he warns the guys inside the store that the police are coming down the street, or is that close to the level of unprotected criminal activity?
Given their reported actions, it could have been both. However, we don't know what he was allegedly talking to the DV subject about. Maybe he was trying to talk him into giving himself up.

I think if they had a legitimate obstruction charge against Mitchell and his Dad, they would not have been dismissed with prejudice. Heck even the guy whose house was surrounded had the charges dropped. I am curious why all charges were dropped and dismissed with prejudice if SWAT team and all of this other action occurred.

They may have had sufficient probable cause for the arrest on obstruction, but I don't see how that would justify "occupying" the house. Maybe they were just searching it subsequent to his arrest. Of course a civil suit has to sound like there was a lot of harm if they want to collect big money.

All in all something isn't quite right somewhere.
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Old 07-11-2013, 15:00   #164
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They aren't armed like solders,
Thank God, could you imagine all the airstrikes called in on dogs?!



I find it interesting that most of the 'cops are civilians' and 'cops are not civilians' crowd seems to have traded off stances in this thread where the opposite stance is now conducive to their agendas. Really shows you what people are really after.
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Old 07-11-2013, 15:35   #165
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I wonder if any of the officers found a place to sleep, or took a shower, or got out of uniform and then logged onto the laptop to check email and go to Glocktalk after they quartered themselves in the house. Maybe make a light meal? Some laundry and maybe a touch up press of the shirt? Was one of them insubordinate and then sent to to their "new" bedroom for an hour or three? Fire up the television, maybe unpack a few items of clothing? Something to make the place seem a bit more like home, or... well... quarters.
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Old 07-11-2013, 16:11   #166
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... and did somebody turn down the sheets for them?

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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 07-11-2013, 16:42   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
Thank God, could you imagine all the airstrikes called in on dogs?!

I find it interesting that most of the 'cops are civilians' and 'cops are not civilians' crowd seems to have traded off stances in this thread where the opposite stance is now conducive to their agendas. Really shows you what people are really after.
Officers are not civilians or military, but they are sworn to support and defend the Constitution, much as I was for 6 years in the USN and in my 26 years in community and State corrections.

Given what I NOW know, I will never take that oath again. I had not known the government had such a long history of abuses until I began looking into Obamacare. I was not surprised at the ruling that they can tax you out of your privacy with a 2.5% tax.

The Constitution gives rights with one hand and allows Congress the power to steal them away with the other and that is old news. You can be forced to work on a road gang as national service, as was an old Florida law long ago.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...=240&invol=328
But that is a whole other subject.

If you believe the 5th Amendment, then you should not "...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;..." No court gave the police the authority to deprive these citizens of their home. There was not a warrant to enter their home, either. So, using that argument, the status of the police as either soldier or civilian is a moot point. They work for the government.
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Old 07-11-2013, 17:11   #168
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The Okie Corral
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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 07-11-2013, 17:12   #169
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Why would a warrant be needed?
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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 07-11-2013, 17:24   #170
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Why would a warrant be needed?
Ignorance is absolute bliss.


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Old 07-11-2013, 17:53   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
I wonder if any of the officers found a place to sleep, or took a shower, or got out of uniform and then logged onto the laptop to check email and go to Glocktalk after they quartered themselves in the house. Maybe make a light meal? Some laundry and maybe a touch up press of the shirt? Was one of them insubordinate and then sent to to their "new" bedroom for an hour or three? Fire up the television, maybe unpack a few items of clothing? Something to make the place seem a bit more like home, or... well... quarters.
I believe I read they did eat there, helped themselves to the fridge, got water etc. I don't know if it was a light or heavy meal.

Why were the charges dismissed against every one of the "bad guys"?
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Old 07-11-2013, 18:02   #172
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Why were the charges dismissed against every one of the "bad guys"?
For that answer, you need to ask the party that dismissed the charges.

As we've seen, some DAs will indict Zimmerman. And some DA's will drop the charges here. Go figure!
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Old 07-11-2013, 18:11   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Why would a warrant be needed?
If a crime was committed by the Mitchell's a warrant would be needed just to enter the house. The husband had already been arrested and his wife refuse to let them enter without a warrant.

Only a warrant or eminent domain you have been to court to defend yourself on would be legal - neither of which happened. They were not criminals and the police had no authority from the court to occupy it. In addition to the 3rd Amendment, they are also applying the 4th Amendment for entering and the 14th Amendment for equal protection.

As is, no due process was involved in taking his home or HIS PARENTS' home down the street. They were investigating a domestic violence complaint - which was at neither house.

The lawyer said that police forces throughout the country, including local law enforcement, are employing military weapons and tactics and the facts of the Mitchells’ case shows the spirit of the Third Amendment of the U.S. Constitution was violated.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/cr...ng-their-homes

According to the complaint, it all began when the Henderson city police called Anthony Mitchell that morning to say they needed his house to gain “tactical advantage” in a domestic violence investigation in the neighborhood.
The situation turned ugly when Mitchell refused repeated requests to leave and police smashed through the door, the 18-page complaint states.
Mitchell alleges the police, upon entering his home, forced him to the floor at gunpoint, then shot him and his “cowering” dog with a few rounds of pepper-spray pellets. Police then allegedly handcuffed and arrested Mitchell in connection with “obstructing a police officer” before occupying his home.
It didn’t end at Anthony Mitchell’s house in suburban Las Vegas, the complaint continues. That same day, the officers also took over the home of Mitchell’s parents, Linda and Michael Mitchell, who live in the same neighborhood and are [also]named as plaintiffs.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...#ixzz2YmjaeW4e

Officers did not even sleep in the houses overnight.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...hird-Amendment

Among those named in the suit are the city of Henderson, the city police department, the police chief, five officers and the North Las Vegas Police Department.

The suit also alleges both police departments "developed and maintained policies and/or customs exhibiting deliberate indifference to the Constitutional rights of United States citizens, which caused the violations of the plaintiffs' rights."

http://politics.foxnews.mobi/quickPa...490&pageNum=-1

So, there is a pattern of abuse they intend to establish.
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Old 07-11-2013, 18:16   #174
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Do you believe a warrant is needed to enter every/any house?

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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 07-11-2013, 19:17   #175
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Why would a warrant be needed?
H13: "Roger. I'm about fifteen klicks South. Call DASC and see if they have any fighters, and then check on the availability of arty . Better get another FAC airborne. That is one bad doggie, and I got a feeling we'll need him."

CO14: "Wilco. Outlaw One Four clear".

H13: "Rosebud Six, Rosebud Six, Herbie Thirteen."

H13: "Rosebud Six, Rosebud Six, Herbie Thirteen on Fox Mike. Do you read?"

RB5: "Herb Thirteen, this is Rosebud Five Actual. Got bad doggies on three sides, my damn Ruff Puffs are thinking about running, my counterpart is missing, and we have 4 KIA and 8 WIA. Rosebud Six Actual has been licked. I need Dust Off, but I don't have a secure LZ. We can hold, but it's going to be close."

H13: "Be at your coordinates in about two minutes. You got panels out?"

RB5: "Negative, no panels available. Popping smoke now."

H13: "I have yellow."

RB5: "Roger, yellow."

H13: "Got you in sight...Ah.. where's your incoming fido coming from?"

...

H13: "Sierra Hotel, One!! Blade Two, you're cleared in hot. Move them about twenty five [meters] east from those fires Blade one started."

B02: "Roger, FAC in sight. Two's in hot west to east."

H13: "Three, put your nape in fifty east of Two. You are cleared in hot".

H13: "Roger, Blade Zero One. I want to make a pass east to west down the dog-park line for a look see and I'd appreciate you making a gun run in front of me with Two covering our ass."

B01: "Roger, Herb. Got you faded. Zero One in east to west with guns".

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H13: "Blade flight hold dry. Your BDA is one hundred percent weapons on target, destruction of three heavyset Pomeranians, two Shi Tzus, twelve baby Pitbulls, and unofficially, you ruined the day for a one and a half companies of dog groomers. We'll try to have an eyeball body count for you by tomorrow. You go-fast guys do good work in the dark."

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