GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-08-2013, 20:34   #51
gjk5
Pinche Gringo
 
gjk5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grand Junction Colorado
Posts: 9,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomhower View Post
How do you figure? Maybe not everywhere but that's certainly the case in my little piece of paradise.
do you have an approximate percentage handy of crimes committed in your area with rifles? (we can just stick with rifles period, forget whether they were the "many, many" ARs and AKs as suggested)
gjk5 is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:34   #52
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,592
Blog Entries: 1


"Militarization of the Police" is biased/emotive bunk, period.

If you had an real knowledge of the US Police forces you know that they have become less militarized over the past decades. As far as "scary weaponry", see the below, nothing new:

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:37   #53
SGT HATRED
Senior Member
 
SGT HATRED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PHX AZ
Posts: 2,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone0538 View Post
Breaking and entering, assault, and kidnapping under color of law?
Sounds about right...
__________________
What I loathe more than the government are the thugs that impose its will on us.
SGT HATRED is online now  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:42   #54
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
"Militarization of the Police" is biased/emotive bunk, period.

If you had an real knowledge of the US Police forces you know that they have become less militarized over the past decades. As far as "scary weaponry", see the below, nothing new:

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral
I see a lot of sub-guns and a mounted MG. My local PD has select fire rifles in EVERY car as well as an armored car and a retired Navy APC. This is topped off by their brand new RV....er I mean "Mobile Command Center". Keep in mind I live in a suburb of a suburb in the south, not Chicago.
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:43   #55
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,592
Blog Entries: 1


Anyone find it the least bit curious this alleged incident happened over 2 years ago?
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:45   #56
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,592
Blog Entries: 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
I see a lot of sub-guns and a mounted MG. My local PD has select fire rifles in EVERY car as well as an armored car and a retired Navy APC. This is topped off by their brand new RV....er I mean "Mobile Command Center". Keep in mind I live in a suburb of a suburb in the south, not Chicago.
Are you positive they are select fire? They may be AR type, but I'll bet they are semi-auto.
My agency has a number of M16's they got from the military through the DRMO program. All have been converted to semi-auto only.

The only auto guns I know of in a VERY large radius are a few MP5's that have 3 round burst or semi-auto. I could hold all of those myself.
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:56   #57
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogfish View Post
If that's the case, I'm out.
I have discovered here if I explain it people reject it. If you find it on your own perhaps you will learn. The problem is you will have to be willing to let go of all your biases.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 21:06   #58
ray9898
Senior Member
 
ray9898's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 17,172


Wow...off topic but are people really implying LE having rifles is unnecessary and some how a sign of something else? He'll, is it okay that we carry semi auto pistols or does that bother folks too?
ray9898 is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 21:23   #59
gjk5
Pinche Gringo
 
gjk5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grand Junction Colorado
Posts: 9,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
I see a lot of sub-guns and a mounted MG. My local PD has select fire rifles in EVERY car as well as an armored car and a retired Navy APC. This is topped off by their brand new RV....er I mean "Mobile Command Center". Keep in mind I live in a suburb of a suburb in the south, not Chicago.
As TBO said, I doubt they are select fire, and I have no objection to patrol rifles. I do object to the claim of any significant increase in rifles used in crimes against officers.

I do also object to the seeming proliferation of armored vehicles. Our little SO here has a couple of UAVs and armored vehicles, not sure why. That said I love our sheriff and he has stood up for our "civilian" rights quite often.
gjk5 is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 21:26   #60
2bgop
Senior Member
 
2bgop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: In the SEC
Posts: 5,679
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjk5 View Post
As TBO said, I doubt they are select fire, and I have no objection to patrol rifles. I do object to the claim of any significant increase in rifles used in crimes against officers.

I do also object to the seeming proliferation of armored vehicles. Our little SO here has a couple of UAVs and armored vehicles, not sure why. That said I love our sheriff and he has stood up for our "civilian" rights quite often.
Because they are surplus military and the feds give them out through grants or sales programs.
2bgop is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 21:27   #61
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjk5 View Post
As TBO said, I doubt they are select fire, and I have no objection to patrol rifles. I do object to the claim of any significant increase in rifles used in crimes against officers.

I do also object to the seeming proliferation of armored vehicles. Our little SO here has a couple of UAVs and armored vehicles, not sure why. That said I love our sheriff and he has stood up for our "civilian" rights quite often.
Did they need an armored vehicle at Columbine?

If they did why?

Did they need patrol rifles at Columbine?

If they did why?
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 21:33   #62
gjk5
Pinche Gringo
 
gjk5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grand Junction Colorado
Posts: 9,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Did they need an armored vehicle at Columbine?

If they did why?

Did they need patrol rifles at Columbine?

If they did why?
no, they did not need an armored vehicle, they needed better training which was not the norm at the time.

I already stated that I had no issue with patrol rifles. and considering the "perps" at Columbine I do not see that a rifle would have made much difference without active shooter training, and even then they probably would have been OK armed with standard for the time weapons against the two untrained teens with crapass guns.
gjk5 is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 21:42   #63
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,592
Blog Entries: 1


Your last sentence, known at the time, or after the fact?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 21:58   #64
racerford
Senior Member
 
racerford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: DFW area
Posts: 4,876


Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
....... Expanded/common use of blue coloured roof lights on police cars indicating merger of UN practices (traditionally, U.S. LE/first reponders only used red and white lights).

.....
I won't comment on the rest, but this is utter nonsense. They moved to blue and red or blue and white to reduce officer deaths. It was found the drunk drivers and drivers with otherwise diminished capacity were attracted to the red lights (thought they were "following" moving tail lights) and were running into the back of police cars that had people stopped on the side of the road. I think you will find when they still have red lights they are on the right side of the car and blue on the left (street side).

To suggest it is a UN thing is worse than silly.
racerford is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 22:01   #65
NIB
Senior Member
 
NIB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lost Angeles
Posts: 3,069
They will lose becuase this is not a 3rd Amendent case. Police do not fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
NIB is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 22:13   #66
gjk5
Pinche Gringo
 
gjk5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grand Junction Colorado
Posts: 9,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Your last sentence, known at the time, or after the fact?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
even though we both know the answer I fail to see how it has any bearing on what I stated.
gjk5 is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 22:17   #67
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
http://politics.foxnews.mobi/quickPa...03.proteus.fma


Hopefully, that link works.


I hope this guy wins millions and jobs are lost.
You know what they say about hoping in one hand....? That's about what this amounts to. There are many reasons this case will fail and only the plaintiff's attorneys will lose anything. However, the main one is that anybody who has spent some time dealing with civil suits and civil rights suits can look at the article and tell you they went to far with slanting the facts of the complaint and they will not stand up.
__________________
If you are not an NRA member, you are not involved in gun rights, so sit down and shut the +%@# up.

Last edited by Bren; 07-09-2013 at 03:53..
Bren is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 22:59   #68
Lior
GUNS=FREEDOM
 
Lior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 5,783


So police officers can be called troopers but cannot be construed to be soldiers for 3A purposes?

While being no expert in constitutional law, I doubt that the 3rd Amendment was intended to allow any armed government agent who was not an army member to stay in private homes without the owners' consent. If the police can be quartered into people's homes without consent because they aren't "soldiers", then why can't marines? Or SEALs? (they're sailors, not soldiers)
__________________
Rust and bureaucrats. Freedom and vigilance. Front sight and trigger. Kindness and firepower. Situational awareness and tolerance. Safety and concealment. Taxes and allegiance. Love of man and surgical marksmanship. Once a soldier, always a soldier.
Lior is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 00:09   #69
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,837
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Did they need an armored vehicle at Columbine?

If they did why?

Did they need patrol rifles at Columbine?

If they did why?
Considering the Dylan and Klebold were inside a building, dead I doubt an armored vehicle or50 would have changed the outcome.

Again, considering that the two perps off-themselves before police got to them, I am not sure how patrol rifles would have changed the outcome.

Now, it has been reported that Deputy Neil Gardner was not wearing his prescription glasses when he engaged Harris and had couldnt not see well enough. He fired four rounds at Harris (harris fired 10 at him) before Harris returned into the school.

Maybe what would have changed the situation is if Gardner had not allowed Harris to break off the engagement with him.

Keep in mind that the offed themselves two minutes after police entered the building. How would an armored car have changed this?

Are you saying that if Gardner had a patrol rifle, he would have ended the encounter or are you implying that had he had a patrol rifle that he would have pursued Harris into the building?
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 00:20   #70
Ohio Copper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the hood
Posts: 3,965
One side of the story.


One side. Remember that.


Remember how things play out in court.


The TRUTH shall set you free...


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Ohio Copper is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 00:27   #71
Ohio Copper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the hood
Posts: 3,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjk5 View Post
As TBO said, I doubt they are select fire, and I have no objection to patrol rifles. I do object to the claim of any significant increase in rifles used in crimes against officers.

I do also object to the seeming proliferation of armored vehicles. Our little SO here has a couple of UAVs and armored vehicles, not sure why. That said I love our sheriff and he has stood up for our "civilian" rights quite often.
I am sometimes the only officer in service in 26 square miles or so. My backup can be as much as 10-20 minutes out (and I'm lucky, there's guys on here who are REALLY on their own). My patrol rifle at least will keep me in the fight. I don't think I can do much engaging an active shooter in Walmart with a glock 22, some of those aisles are 75-125 yards long. It's needed.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Ohio Copper is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 03:40   #72
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,837
Blog Entries: 1
FWIW, all the talk of a patrol rifles to stop active shooters lets look at the last 3 mass casuality events.

Boston Bombing
Sandy Hook
Aurora

How did armored vehicles, SWAT teams, patrol rifles, etc stop or prevent these incidents?

The only mass causality event that pops into my head that was stopped was

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/12/10...ado.shootings/

This was not stopped by a patrol rifle, armored car, etc. This was stopped by an armed guard (I seem to remember reading somewhere she was an off-duty officer providing free security to her church) with a side arm.

Almost all the mass casualty events seem to either have the perp committing suicide or surrendering when police arrive. The one that sticks out in my head was the that went different was the Platte Canyon High School shooting. The end result was that police entered room however, the perp shot and killed Emily Keyes, and then committed suicide.

I believe the only way to stop the mass casualty events really comes down to luck of timing. If someone armed is there when it starts, then there is a chance that it will be stopped. Otherwise, 2 to 5 minutes is a lot of time for a perp to kill people before police arrive. By the time a tac team is there with an armored car and dressed up, the incidents are over.
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 03:57   #73
Ohio Copper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the hood
Posts: 3,965
I don't have the luxury of a full time tac team. It's me, my shift partners and anybody else coming to the party.




Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

Last edited by Ohio Copper; 07-09-2013 at 03:58..
Ohio Copper is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 04:16   #74
m2hmghb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Livin in the country of NJ
Posts: 12,220


Patch it looks like you were really really bored. By the way in the 1870s and on police were better armed then soldiers. The police often had repeating rifles while the soldiers had single shot trapdoor rifles.
__________________
Here's a toast to our wives and to the women we loved. <pause> May they never meet.

The M1 Garand rifle is the best battle implement ever devised by man.

Last edited by m2hmghb; 07-09-2013 at 04:16..
m2hmghb is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 06:38   #75
ArtyGuy
Senior Member
 
ArtyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 806
From Fox News.

John Yoo, a professor at the University of California at Berkeley’s law school, wasn't so sure about the family's argument. He said the Mitchells may have claims under other federal and state laws “but their chances are very, very low on the Third Amendment.”

Yoo, a visiting scholar for the conservative-leaning American Enterprise Institute and former Justice Department official, told FoxNews.com the most difficult challenge for them is that there were no "soldiers" in their house, before the court gets into the question of whether "quartering" occurred.

“Local police on law enforcement missions are not soldiers,” he said. But “Nevada should compensate the Mitchells’ for the temporary use of their home and for any damages caused in the operation.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...ird-amendment/





Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
The King puts the balls where the Queen wants them.
ArtyGuy is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:57.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,505
446 Members
1,059 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42