GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-08-2013, 17:55   #26
muscogee
Senior Member
 
muscogee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,841


Why not a Fourth Amendment rather than Third? Seems definitely like unreasonable seizure.
__________________
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Leona Helmsley
muscogee is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 17:56   #27
hogfish
Señor Member
 
hogfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fl
Posts: 4,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Good question. I know the answer and it points to why this may be BS.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app
Make sure the two of you don't hurry up and enlighten us.
__________________
Opinions are like noses...everybody's got one.

"Almost no matter the question, capitalism and freedom are the answers, while government and religion are not." Syclone538
hogfish is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:10   #28
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Good question. I know the answer and it points to why this may be BS.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app
Let's pretend for a second that it happened just the way the homeowner said it did. What would you do if those were officers under you?
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:10   #29
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
Depends on how much they are lying. I am not sure about this particular court but I wanna say the loser pays the winners legal fees in federal civil cases.

I posted a video from a 4th of July DUI checkpoint and it wouldn't shock me in the least to see those cops do something like mentioned in this case. They are audio recorded off camera berating the subject about how his "rights" don't mean spit to them.
So if the cops did in fact commit this crime as alleged, they're going to get sued. Fired and perhaps prison. But if the plaintiff made this up in the first place, at most they're liable for is court costs?

Who's going to parse the degree of lying?

Double standards?
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:12   #30
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogfish View Post
Make sure the two of you don't hurry up and enlighten us.
CACop is playing a cruel joke on you. He's forcing you to t-h-i-n-k on your own.
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:15   #31
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
Let's pretend for a second that it happened just the way the homeowner said it did. What would you do if those were officers under you?
Let's pretend it comes out the homeowner made this up completely or to a high degree. What should these officers do to the homeowner as payback?
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.

Last edited by Patchman; 07-08-2013 at 19:15..
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:18   #32
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Why not a Fourth Amendment rather than Third? Seems definitely like unreasonable seizure.
I "believe" the party backing the Henderson plaintiff has a running agenda about suing LE under the 3A.
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:30   #33
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
So if the cops did in fact commit this crime as alleged, they're going to get sued. Fired and perhaps prison. But if the plaintiff made this up in the first place, at most they're liable for is court costs?

Who's going to parse the degree of lying?

Double standards?
Absolutely there is a double standard, the police are involved with enforcing the law, this is why CDL truckers can't get tickets removed from their record. I'd like to see the law where cops get double the punishment for breaking crimes.

Last edited by Jose the carwash man; 07-08-2013 at 19:31..
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:32   #34
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Let's pretend it comes out the homeowner made this up completely or to a high degree. What should these officers do to the homeowner as payback?
Way to dodge the question. I'm pretty sure since this is civil, the worst that could happen would be them paying the court costs. On the other hand if what they say is true, the police have committed multiple felonies that land all of us civilians in prison.
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:33   #35
2bgop
Senior Member
 
2bgop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: In the SEC
Posts: 5,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
Absolutely there is a double standard, the police are involved with enforcing the law, this is why CDL truckers can't get tickets removed from their record. I'd like to see the law where cops get double the punishment for breaking crimes.

You're new here, cry of double standard is frequent.
2bgop is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:38   #36
Glocksanity
Senior Member
 
Glocksanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles, Man, Los Angeles
Posts: 1,705
Police departments accept money from the DHS. Not a stretch to say they are a Federal Police Force, or domestic standing army.

Stay out of my house. Thank you very much.
__________________
G21~G26~G30~G34

Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis!
Glocksanity is online now  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:40   #37
hogfish
Señor Member
 
hogfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fl
Posts: 4,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
CACop is playing a cruel joke on you. He's forcing you to t-h-i-n-k on your own.
If that's the case, I'm out.
__________________
Opinions are like noses...everybody's got one.

"Almost no matter the question, capitalism and freedom are the answers, while government and religion are not." Syclone538
hogfish is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:40   #38
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
Absolutely there is a double standard, the police are involved with enforcing the law, this is why CDL truckers can't get tickets removed from their record. I'd like to see the law where cops get double the punishment for breaking crimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
Way to dodge the question. I'm pretty sure since this is civil, the worst that could happen would be them paying the court costs. On the other hand if what they say is true, the police have committed multiple felonies that land all of us civilians in prison.
Now you're dodging.

What retribution is appropriate against the homeowner if he made this up or highly exaggerated this incident?
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:47   #39
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
Police departments accept money from the DHS. Not a stretch to say they are a Federal Police Force, or domestic standing army.
Militarization of the police. Surplussed military equipment. More and more LEOs have military background. Rank structure. LE wear uniforms, including combat styled boots. Use of military terminology. DHS getting delivery of 2.7 billion rounds of small arms ammo since January 1 of this year. Expanded/common use of blue coloured roof lights on police cars indicating merger of UN practices (traditionally, U.S. LE/first reponders only used red and white lights).

Probably many more indicia that I missed.
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:49   #40
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bgop View Post
You're new here, cry of double standard is frequent.
He's new here. Let him know that the application of double standard is even more frequent.
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:51   #41
2bgop
Senior Member
 
2bgop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: In the SEC
Posts: 5,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
He's new here. Let him know that the application of double standard is even more frequent.
I will make sure he pitches in to tissue fund.
2bgop is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:52   #42
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Now you're dodging.

What retribution is appropriate against the homeowner if he made this up or highly exaggerated this incident?
Not at all, like I said previously (twice actually) if they are making it all up then they will have to pay for the court costs. Law enforcement are absolutely held to a higher standard since they are given the public trust.
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 19:55   #43
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,558
Blog Entries: 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Militarization of the police. Surplussed military equipment. More and more LEOs have military background. Rank structure. LE wear uniforms, including combat styled boots. Use of military terminology. DHS getting delivery of 2.7 billion rounds of small arms ammo since January 1 of this year. Expanded/common use of blue coloured roof lights on police cars indicating merger of UN practices (traditionally, U.S. LE/first reponders only used red and white lights).

Probably many more indicia that I missed.
You've been here long enough to know better.
Stop with the scripted bias that's been refuted ad nauseum.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:03   #44
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
Not at all, like I said previously (twice actually) if they are making it all up then they will have to pay for the court costs. Law enforcement are absolutely held to a higher standard since they are given the public trust.
So your position is that any plaintiff (I'm not talking specifically about the Henderson plaintiff) can go to court and submit a document full of lies and/or highly exaggerated facts... and once found out to be lies, only face the penalty of court costs?

So lying to the courts is not a violation of the public trust?
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:07   #45
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
Not at all, like I said previously (twice actually) if they are making it all up then they will have to pay for the court costs. Law enforcement are absolutely held to a higher standard since they are given the public trust.
How quaint. LE is held to the higher standard but everyone else can just lie.
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:14   #46
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 20,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Militarization of the police. Surplussed military equipment. More LEOs have military background. Rank structure. LE wear uniforms, including combat styled boots. Use of military terminology. DHS getting delivery of 2.7 billion rounds of small arms ammo since January 1 of this year. Expanded/common use of blue coloured roof lights on police cars indicating merger of UN practices (traditionally, U.S. LE/first reponders only used red and white lights).

Probably many more indicia that I missed.
I think you got about all of them but I thought it was 4.9 billion rounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
I think it is that and the "blue wall" that makes cops feel like they are a class above your average civilian. In most other countries the cops are part of the community first and foremost and *big shocker* actually more interested in the welfare of the people they serve when who get's the newest model of Taser or laser sight.
I would love to hear or read about these studies suggesting how much better the police in other nations are integrated into the community..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose the carwash man View Post
I have a Ranger friend who said the RoE for American SWAT teams is lower than what he had going on raids in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Among other problems in non-military operations, I think the term you mean is "use of force rules." And the next time civilian police here use and air strike or artillery please let us know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
Police departments accept money from the DHS. Not a stretch to say they are a Federal Police Force, or domestic standing army.

....
Very interesting legal argument. Well, very entertaining at least.


Forget civil court, if this is true, I am shocked they are not at the appropriate U.S. Attorneys Office looking for federal criminal charges.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:15   #47
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Militarization of the police. Surplussed military equipment. More and more LEOs have military background. Rank structure. LE wear uniforms, including combat styled boots. Use of military terminology. DHS getting delivery of 2.7 billion rounds of small arms ammo since January 1 of this year. Expanded/common use of blue coloured roof lights on police cars indicating merger of UN practices (traditionally, U.S. LE/first reponders only used red and white lights).

Probably many more indicia that I missed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
You've been here long enough to know better.
Stop with the scripted bias that's been refuted ad nauseum.

If it's the truth, I can't say it often enough.

If it's not the truth, why should I be held to a higher standard?



__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.
Patchman is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:17   #48
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
So your position is that any plaintiff (I'm not talking specifically about the Henderson plaintiff) can go to court and submit a document full of lies and/or highly exaggerated facts... and once found out to be lies, only face the penalty of court costs?

So lying to the courts is not a violation of the public trust?
In a civil case that is correct. There are criminal penalties associated with filing a false police report.
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:18   #49
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 20,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
If it's the truth, I can't say it often enough.

If it's not the truth, why should I be held to a higher standard?



__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 20:19   #50
Jose the carwash man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyGuy View Post
I'm active duty Army with experience in both theaters doing raids. Your friend is mistaken or you misunderstood him. I would offer that SWAT teams would love to have the freedom we did. Nothing stopped us from hog tying folks, detaining them, etc. We weren't dealing with folks that had rights anywhere close to what John and Jane Q. Public have.
He was a 3/75 Ranger and while I forget the exact wording, he responded to a video showing a botched SWAT raid with that comment.
Jose the carwash man is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:48.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,326
386 Members
940 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42