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Old 07-07-2013, 11:39   #76
faawrenchbndr
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You were on trace when you listed the Smith as #1 in the first place. The S&W1911Sc E Series would be my pic of what was listed.
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Old 07-07-2013, 15:49   #77
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Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
I don't know about the "any & all purposes" aspect and that restricted of a list of only semiauto handguns, and only chambered in the Big Three service calibers.

Sounds more like instead of any & all purposes, you've already narrowed the potential purpose down to it being used for a defensive role in some circumstances. (Not a hunting handgun, nor a handgun to protect against feral/dangerous animals more than thin-skinned, some competition venues, etc.)

As a firearms instructor I'd not recommend a 1911-style SA pistol for someone, especially for dedicated defensive usage, unless I knew that person was already familiar with a 1911, or was planning to attend some training to become very familiar with it.

As a longtime 1911 owner & shooter, of those listed I'd go with the Enhanced series of the SW1911SC, no question.

If not a 1911? Either the M&P 9c or 40c, depending on the experience and skillset of the potential owner/user.

I've seen some folks trying to choose between the 9c & 40c, and while most folks can adapt to the increased felt recoil & muzzle whip of the .40 S&W on a static, slow-fire range ... once we transition to some demanding, faster paced shooting drills, the controllability & practical accuracy quickly shows they have much better results using the 9c, even loaded with +P ammo.

I own a 40c, myself (since 2010). The only reason I picked it over the 9c was because I already had more 9's than .40's, and I'd received a M&P .40 extractor bar gauge tool from S&W (as an armorer), by mistake, instead of a .40/10 extractor bar gauge I'd ordered for the 3rd gen guns. I kept the M&P extractor bar gauge and simply decided I might as well have a gun for which the tool might someday be useful.

Anyway, the 40c is a very easy shooting .40 for a gun in the general size/weight range of, say, a G27 (I have one of those, too), but the 40c is easier to shoot over the course of longer range sessions than my G27. (I have more than 15,000+ rounds fired through that G27, so it's not like I haven't acquired some passing familiarity with using it.)

So ... the 9c is usually something I recommend interested folks try out on a range, along with the 40c, before finalizing their decision.

The Rugers? Longtime Ruger owner, user & enthusiast. However, the last Ruger centerfire semiauto of theirs I found even remotely interesting was the KP90DC (which I tried my best to wear out, eventually replacing several parts due to either normal wear or minor breakage).

P229? Decent service-type pistol in TDA (tradition double action, also called DA/SA by many folks). Some folks also like the enhanced double action only mode (what Sig also calls their DAK, in-house). Sig refers to it as a "compact" but it's a lot larger than their actual "compact", the P239 series. It feels & carries like a full-size service pistol. That may or may not be an advantage, depending on other things with any particular owner.

Personally, I tend to look more toward revolvers for "any & all purposes", as they still fill a viable role and offer advantages ... no magazines needed, no disassembly/field-stripping for cleaning, less susceptible to ammunition sensitivity & shooter grip stability issues, easier to maintain at the user level for normal conditions, some interchangeability in ammunition among some calibers/models (.38 Spl can be fired in .357 Magnum models, .44 Spl in .44 Magnum).

You have to ask yourself which of those models may suit your needs, skillset, experience and actual anticipated range of conditions in which you may be using a handgun ... and make the best informed decision possible.
you are correct, there is no hunting or hiking going on. the term any and all purposes is what is used around here to make it clear you want your class a permit unrestricted. it is for home and personal defense and to carry. i do own the p229 and during the summer i do find it a bit too large to carry. the .40 round is a bit snappy, we all know this but in the 229 it is no problem at all. now in another lighter gun, it could be. thank you for your professional input into the matter. i have often looked into adding something else to the firearms family that is not as large and heavy as the 229 but i often stop short of buying something because what i find is pistols not as reliable as the old workhorse.
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Old 07-07-2013, 16:16   #78
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... adding something else to the firearms family that is not as large and heavy as the 229 but i often stop short of buying something because what i find is pistols not as reliable as the old workhorse.
Is the P239 on the allowable list there?

If your 229 is TDA, and you get a 239 in TDA, it gives you a leg up on familiarity with the new pistol. That can be handy.

Granted, the different grip dimension can introduce some conditions that may require some minor adjustment to your grip. I knew of a guy who had carried an issued 229, and then bought himself a 239. His grip positioned his thumb in a different spot on the 239, and he experienced unintentionally stopping the slide from locking back on an empty mag in the smaller gun. The difference in grip frame dimensions just let his thumb fall differently against the frame, pressing against the slide stop lever.

The M&P compacts are pretty nicely done plastic pistols. It's just that while the design, dimensions and oevrall ergos of the M&P compact are pretty good, not everyone's hands seem to fall comfortably alongside the guns, and this may adversely affect operation of the mag catch, slide stop lever and thumb safety (on models so equipped).

Then again, you're also going to have to adjust to the MA compliant version, with its heavier trigger pull.

Have you tried a 239? Rather somewhat of a chunky, fat grip, but all-in-all a nicely done single stack compact Sig. If I didn't already own an excellent 3913 & 4040PD, I'd have picked one up.
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Old 07-07-2013, 16:41   #79
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P239M is allowed in all 3 calibers. 9/40/357
This is correct.
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Old 07-07-2013, 16:45   #80
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Originally Posted by Travelin' Jack View Post
Glock 32, but it's hard not to pick the Glock 20.
My choice would be the G32 as well. But since its not on your list, I would go with the P229 with 357sig barrel.
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Old 07-07-2013, 16:52   #81
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I was very impressed with the 239 I handled not long ago, but like fastbolt, I am happy with the 39 based S&W third gen compacts. I still have the OPs State of residence weighing on my mind, perhaps too heavily. The M&Pc seems to have some passive benefits in that environment.

It is probably more my personality at work than practicality but if I were in such a restrictive place I would hump up my back and buy the most politically "neutral" gun I could and then bear down on it for all I was worth and make myself absolutely as proficient as the design allowed me to.

Still, I don't think it's a bad choice for someone without my obstinate tendencies.
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:10   #82
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M&P 40c or P229.
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:11   #83
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Out of your choices, the p229. But if you were open to write ins I would say the hk45c. It is about the same price as a p229, and with the fact that it can use a flush 8 rounder or a 10 rounder with a base plate, I have come to believe it is a true "do it all" handgun, plus its not much fatter than a 1911. Oh, and its such a sweet shooter.
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Old 07-08-2013, 00:10   #84
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Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
Is the P239 on the allowable list there?

If your 229 is TDA, and you get a 239 in TDA, it gives you a leg up on familiarity with the new pistol. That can be handy.

Granted, the different grip dimension can introduce some conditions that may require some minor adjustment to your grip. I knew of a guy who had carried an issued 229, and then bought himself a 239. His grip positioned his thumb in a different spot on the 239, and he experienced unintentionally stopping the slide from locking back on an empty mag in the smaller gun. The difference in grip frame dimensions just let his thumb fall differently against the frame, pressing against the slide stop lever.

The M&P compacts are pretty nicely done plastic pistols. It's just that while the design, dimensions and oevrall ergos of the M&P compact are pretty good, not everyone's hands seem to fall comfortably alongside the guns, and this may adversely affect operation of the mag catch, slide stop lever and thumb safety (on models so equipped).

Then again, you're also going to have to adjust to the MA compliant version, with its heavier trigger pull.

Have you tried a 239? Rather somewhat of a chunky, fat grip, but all-in-all a nicely done single stack compact Sig. If I didn't already own an excellent 3913 & 4040PD, I'd have picked one up.
yes the 239 is allowed. i think i am going to visit the firearms school in attleboro and rent both the 9c and the 239 and give em both a workout to see how i like them. keep in mind the MA version of the 9c does come with the 10lb trigger but most gun shops do trigger jobs for $80. the MA version of the 9c does not have an external safety but it does have just 10 round mags :(
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Old 07-08-2013, 00:11   #85
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thank you everyone again for the feedback. it is very much appreciated
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Old 07-08-2013, 00:49   #86
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M&p 9c.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:17   #87
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If you were limited to just one handgun and you HAD to pick from the following firearms, which would you go with? This would be for home defense, carry, ....any and all purposes.

1. S&W 1911SC E Series .45
2. Ruger SR1911 Commander .45
3. S&W M&P 9c 9mm
4. S&W M&P 40c .40
5. Sig Sauer P229 .40
6. Ruger SR9c 9mm
7. Ruger SR40c .40

Just those, no other choices. What would you go with?

Thanks,
I wouldn't choose any of them for my sole handgun.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:25   #88
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Barrel length is not the issue for carrying concealed...the size of the grip is the issue.

Having said that, I'd get a full size M&P9, with no safety.

I definitely would stay away from .40, with the cost of ammo. I'd get something in 9MM.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:26   #89
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BOTH 1911's are commander length 4.25 inch barrels.
Yeah, I totally read over the Smith. I'd take the E series over the Ruger.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:14   #90
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I'd pick the M&P 9c for sure.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:16   #91
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Out of your choices, the p229. But if you were open to write ins I would say the hk45c. It is about the same price as a p229, and with the fact that it can use a flush 8 rounder or a 10 rounder with a base plate, I have come to believe it is a true "do it all" handgun, plus its not much fatter than a 1911. Oh, and its such a sweet shooter.

Yup. I have the full size HK45 and it is probably the best overall handgun I own. The only downside is price, but I really don't care since I buy for quality. I don't really look for a great deal when buying a handgun.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:17   #92
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I'd usually say 9mm but you're limited to 10 rounds right? Probably something in 40 or 45 then... so 229 or SR1911 gets my vote.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:18   #93
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The S&W 1911, because its a S&W 1911.


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Old 07-08-2013, 08:35   #94
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oh yeah? After you've got the tens of thousands of hours of experience and study of the subject that I have, you'll see that I'm correct. 45 years, that is. 150+ combat matches, had to point a gun at men 5x, taken hundreds of animals with ccw guns and loads, scores of students trained, read every gun book you ever heard of, (and scores that you haven't) thousands of gun magazines read, thousands of hours on the Net on these forums, hundreds of hours of trainiing in logic, debate, and how to do research. So lets SEE what you've GOT in the way of "rebuttal" to what i've said here, hmm? Fat chance that it;s anything but the refuge of scoundrels.
I realize that I am nowhere near your level of experience with high level handguns like the PF9 and I know I'm nowhere near your level when it comes to competition but I've gotta ask. WTF is a combat match? Is it IDPA sanctioned? Or is it an IPSC style match? Do you shoot for speed vs time to find a hit factor? Or what? Please elaborate. I've never heard of "combat matches". I've heard of combat, I've heard of matches, I've never heard the two put together.



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Old 07-08-2013, 15:07   #95
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Ruger 1911 Commander.
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Old 07-08-2013, 16:21   #96
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sig is what i would pick on that list
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Old 07-08-2013, 18:37   #97
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I am disabled and only carry and shoot Ruger revolvers in .357/38 caliber. It's hard for me to rack a slide most of the time.
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Old 07-08-2013, 18:39   #98
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P229.
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Old 07-08-2013, 19:24   #99
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From that list, the Ruger Commander size gun.

Right now I am torn between my 4" Springfield Champion LW and my G26 for my personal gun and frankly the Glock is trailing by a bit. Once I get sights milled into the SA I think it will be the gun and the G26 will be reserved for GSSF.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:32   #100
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without hesitation sig all the way!!!! I own 3 of them.
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