GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-07-2013, 23:04   #101
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
In your rush to bash how bad "eyewitnesses" are, maybe you should go look at video of the plane as the wings lifted off the runway to nearly a vertical position and appeared to cartwheel and then the pilot (or maybe dumb luck) go it back down on its belly.
When someone says "I saw "X" happen." and, in fact "X" didn't happen would you call that "reliable" ?

It's really a pretty simple concept. Most of us were fortunate enough to learn about it when we were young.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 23:10   #102
New23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 416
AVsig has been around for a very long time and is populated by many experienced pilots. $20 (I think) per year for full access, and it's worth far more than that. Political commentary is relegated to the "Hot Section" and you don't have to go there if you don't want to.

http://aero-farm.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaCave View Post
On a related note, can anyone suggest a couple of good discussion boards for GA topics? I am getting back to flying and could use a good G T style hangout.
New23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 23:15   #103
New23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 416
Lots of later news and more to come. Currently, it seems the plane was too low and too slow and tried to go around too late. The pilot flying was in training on the 777.
New23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 23:29   #104
AggiePhil
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
AggiePhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,382


Quote:
Originally Posted by New23 View Post
The pilot flying was in training on the 777.
Not anymore.
AggiePhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 07:58   #105
Altaris
Senior Member
 
Altaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 11,192
New info:

First time flying into that airport, and only 43hrs experience in a 777.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/08...ional-airport/


Asiana Airlines said Monday that the pilot in control of the Boeing 777 that crashed at San Francisco International Airport Saturday had little experience flying that type of plane and was landing one for the first time at that airport.

Asiana spokeswoman Lee Hyomin told the Associated Press Monday that Lee Gang-guk was trying to get used to the 777 during Saturday's crash landing. She said the pilot had nearly 10,000 hours flying other planes, including the Boeing 747, but had only 43 hours on the 777
__________________
To Alcohol !
The cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems
-Homer Simpson-
Altaris is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 10:34   #106
wingryder
Senior Member
 
wingryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: 28.420, -81.171
Posts: 1,981
According to the Flight aware data, he was dropping like a stone from about 3000 - 800 feet (1380/fpm). He came in with a VERY high nose angle. I think the aircraft was in a long stall that was slowing the plane down, even if given full throttle. He was unable to gain altitude.

I have watched that approach/crash video several times and it appears that the tail dragged through the water for a several hundred feet before striking the seawall. One reason why I think he was stalling the aircraft is because he was well off the centerline of the runway when he struck the seawall. He may have been having difficulty keeping the aircraft on the glide path because it was in a stall. Does that sound plausable?
__________________
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

Last edited by wingryder; 07-08-2013 at 10:35..
wingryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 10:41   #107
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingryder View Post
According to the Flight aware data, he was dropping like a stone from about 3000 - 800 feet (1380/fpm). He came in with a VERY high nose angle. I think the aircraft was in a long stall that was slowing the plane down, even if given full throttle. He was unable to gain altitude.

I have watched that approach/crash video several times and it appears that the tail dragged through the water for a several hundred feet before striking the seawall. One reason why I think he was stalling the aircraft is because he was well off the centerline of the runway when he struck the seawall. He may have been having difficulty keeping the aircraft on the glide path because it was in a stall. Does that sound plausable?

Jet was on verge of stalling before hitting sea wall, officials say

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,7958685.story
czsmithGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 11:45   #108
3glkdog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LV, NV
Posts: 1,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Critch View Post
The NTSB said it could take a year to determine why it crashed.....???? Really? It's very apparent from the videos out there that the pilot hit the rocks at the end of the runway because he was too damned low....The black boxes will give us some data as well....this was pilot error.....
NTSB got a plate full right now. 3 maybe 4 train wrecks they are investigating.
3glkdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 11:50   #109
purrrfect 10
Senior Member
 
purrrfect 10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Linden, Virginia
Posts: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyGuy View Post
That plane certainly came in contact with the runway well before it should have-- the debris trail begins immediately. Hopefully there are not fatalities and/or serious injuries.
I agree twas Pilot Error he was in training came in to low
__________________
WAR DOES NOT DETERMINE WHO IS RIGHT, IT DETERMINES WHO IS LEFT
((((((((((((((((((((
THAT SAID ))))))))))))
I'm in the best condition I possibly can be ~ being in this condition...
purrrfect 10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 21:09   #110
TripleSeven
Registered User
 
TripleSeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Oakland, TN
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by aircarver View Post
Has been examined.

The BAC crash was blamed on engine failures from frozen slush fuel.

The AAR crash has witnesses citing that the pilots came up on the power too little, too late, but that the engines did respond.

Main body of opinion seems to be a bad visual approach 'cuz there were no visual aids and no glideslope in operation.

.
The cause of British Airways (Flight 38) affects 777s powered by Rolls Royce Trent engines. The fix was a re-design of the fuel-oil heat exchanger(s) (FOHE). GE and P&W not affected.
My SWAG is that the engines responded, the flight crew did not
TripleSeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 22:06   #111
Caver 60
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,563
Haven't seen many people speculating on why he was diving so hard on the last leg of the approach. Not exactly a good idea to do things like that, especially if you don't keep your airspeed up. When you stop that dive, you're going to loose a lot of airspeed fast with the engines idled back.
Caver 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 23:54   #112
Lone_Wolfe
CLM Number 226
Sandbox Refugee
 
Lone_Wolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: This side of a tombstone
Posts: 26,396


Quote:
Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
I'm not a pilot but I remember Neil Armstrong's admonition:

When in doubt, land long.

why try to buy every inch of the runway. Scoot over the end of the runway and put it down a little later. You can always put the brakes on harder or deploy the thrust reversers a little longer.
I remember being in a C-130 that had to land on a STOL (Short Take Off and Landing) runway. They had to set that plane down hard on the very beginning of the runway, then slam on the brakes so hard the plane screamed. Take off from that runway wasn't much more fun.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member++++++SAF Life Member+++++++++++

To those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while defending American freedom, you will not be forgotten.

RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
RIP Jeff (23Skidoo) - 1962-2012 and Gloria (Silent_Runner) - 1964-2013
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE
Lone_Wolfe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 05:27   #113
ModGlock17
Senior Member
 
ModGlock17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lalaland USA
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caver 60 View Post
Haven't seen many people speculating on why he was diving so hard on the last leg of the approach. Not exactly a good idea to do things like that, especially if you don't keep your airspeed up..
Top 5 reasons for Korean Pilot to land in a hurry, when weather is beautiful outside:

5. There's a spider dropping down from the overhead panel, a Russian spider.
4. Have to take my wife and mother in law to lunch... I'm late.
3. Spilled that cheap bowl of Ramen soup on my instruments.
2. Co-pilot Spilled coffee on MY instrument.
1. Somebody in this cockpit had a lot of KimChi... Oh, I can't breath..
ModGlock17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 06:07   #114
robin303
Helicopter Nut
 
robin303's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 6,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaCave View Post
On a related note, can anyone suggest a couple of good discussion boards for GA topics? I am getting back to flying and could use a good G T style hangout.
http://www.pprune.org/
__________________
G19 RTF w/gills
G17 RTF w/gills
robin303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 06:44   #115
aircarver
Silver Membership
Ride Continues
 
aircarver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Ft. Worth TX
Posts: 24,335


Quote:
Originally Posted by robin303 View Post
It's a great forum for the airline biz, but the 'Biz Jets, Ag flying, and GA' forum is still aimed at 'the business' rather than what he seems to be looking for is a Piper Cessna forum.

.
__________________
They'd created a vast, permanently unemployed underclass, dependent upon the Republic's stupendous welfare machine for its very existence, and in so doing, they'd sown the seeds of their own destruction. No one could place two-thirds of a world's population on the Dole and keep them there forever without the entire system crashing . . . but how in hell did one get them off the Dole? -David Weber, Flag in Exile
aircarver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 20:59   #116
MIKES LAW
Senior Member
 
MIKES LAW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: FAYETTEVILLE, NC, USA
Posts: 280
Blog Entries: 5


Second loss of a 777 hull. First was a crash at Heathrow.

.[/QUOTE]

It couldn't have been the plane then
__________________
Find the cost of freedom...
MIKES LAW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 22:23   #117
podwich
Senior Member
 
podwich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: MI
Posts: 9,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
It didn't cartwheel- the nose rose up and went back down. And the wings didn't fall off. So what the witness described did not happen.
In the video, the nose was low while one wing was high, it looked like it sort of rotated along a dragging nose and wing, ending up rotating around 180 degrees (tail empennage already torn off). I can see where someone would interpret that as cartwheeling when seen real-time.
podwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 00:26   #118
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by podwich View Post
In the video, the nose was low while one wing was high, it looked like it sort of rotated along a dragging nose and wing, ending up rotating around 180 degrees (tail empennage already torn off). I can see where someone would interpret that as cartwheeling when seen real-time.
Sue I can understand that too. Wasn't bashing the person who thought he saw one thing but it turned out to be something other than what he described.
czsmithGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 00:35   #119
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,392
Pilots' Group Wants Less Transparency on the Boeing 777 Crash

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...7-crash/67009/
czsmithGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 00:40   #120
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKES LAW View Post
Second loss of a 777 hull. First was a crash at Heathrow.

.
It couldn't have been the plane then[/QUOTE]

It sounds like they may have set the auto throttle incorrectly, or it could be that it wasn't operating properly. In either case it also seems the pilots were not paying sufficient attention to the air speed and glide slope until it was too late. But it is true the investigation has a way to go and all we know from the NTSB briefings is that pilot error hasn't been ruled out.
czsmithGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 00:49   #121
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,392
The SFO crash makes me wonder if the people who like to stand on the beach when the planes approach Princess Juliana Airport aren't just a little nuts.

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral

Last edited by czsmithGT; 07-10-2013 at 00:51..
czsmithGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 07:55   #122
ModGlock17
Senior Member
 
ModGlock17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lalaland USA
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
The SFO crash makes me wonder if the people who like to stand on the beach when the planes approach Princess Juliana Airport aren't just a little nuts.
...]
They got the same genes as squirrels standing in the middle of the road looking at cars. Ahhh, get the RUSH. LoL
ModGlock17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:17.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,129
320 Members
809 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42