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Old 11-12-2013, 23:34   #81
ShallNotBeInfringed
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
In my experience, there are two schools of thought about Glock and other striker fired pistols that don't have a manual safety: The dominant position is that a manual safety isn't needed because training and experience will produce mental conditioning that prevents putting one's finger inside the guard until the target is acquired and the decision has been made to shoot. The much less popular opinion is that NDs can happen despite training and experience, particularly during administrative handling, so a manual safety device reduces the risk of NDs.

This debate comes down to what the gun owner is personally comfortable with, and I can't argue against that. After all, we are each personally responsible and accountable for our behavior with firearms. My misgivings arise with new shooters, first-time Glock owners and others who carry striker-fired pistols in C1 without the necessary training and experience.

With respect to what or how an instructor approaches training with a Glock, my view is that inexperienced shooters should be advised to use a NY trigger, a safety device or carry unchambered until competence is achieved. My layman's perspective will be viewed as too conservative or overreaching by many, but safety should be the instructor's first priority, in my opinion.
Thank you for a good, well articulated post.
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Old 11-12-2013, 23:43   #82
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When I want my Glock to be perfectly safe, I don't pull the trigger. Problem solved. Works with both hands and it's free.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:07   #83
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When I want my Glock to be perfectly safe, I don't pull the trigger. Problem solved. Works with both hands and it's free.
Does your car have windshield wipers? For rain, they make it possible to drive.

Do windshield wipers work in all weather conditions?

Your finger safety rule is like windshield wipers. They work most of the time.

I want my safety to work no matter what SHTF.

sent from my rotary wall phone
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:14   #84
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That's like putting a cover over the ignition of your car because you don't want to inadvertently start it. Despite the fact you must insert a key and turn it before it will start in the first place.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:16   #85
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The only thing that I want in my trigger guard is my trigger finger, at the proper time.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:34   #86
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
Does your car have windshield wipers? For rain, they make it possible to drive.

Do windshield wipers work in all weather conditions?

Your finger safety rule is like windshield wipers. They work most of the time.

I want my safety to work no matter what SHTF.

sent from my rotary wall phone
A Glock without a Saf T Blok is like windshield wipers? You are really, really bad at analogies.

Not to mention, not pulling the trigger works all the time. Lack of confidence in your abiliities should be fixed with training and practice, not by stuffing little plastic blocks behind your trigger so you don't shoot your eye out.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:27   #87
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Never induce anything into your training environment that may compromise safety.
With that said, I talked to a couple of instructors about the introduction and requirement of the Saf-t-Locks in training for concealed carry classes and range certification for such classes.
I can honestly say my colleagues were as shocked as I was at this idea.
You are introducing people to the world being armed in public. This in and of itself is going to bring about certain changes in their psyche. Now, with my experience in training and signing off for concealed carry permits in Minnesota, roughly 75% of the people I trained had no experience with firearms and 50% never touched a handgun.
Adding a product to supplement user knowledge and safety, especially one that is placed within the trigger guard, is "An Absolute Negligent Discharge" in the making. That might sound harsh, but so does the thought of having someone I am responsible for getting injured.
I am not saying they are bad, however, this is an item that should only be considered by, used by, and trained with by those with a substantial amount of experience with the Glock platform.
Don't open yourself up to any liability issues by considering this tiem as a mandatory training device.
I have had enough problems with first time shooters wanting to leave fingers on the trigger when going to re-holster. I don't even want to imagine what could go wrong with a first time shooter fumbling finger syndrome when they have to get rounds down range.
You will encounter many interesting training challenges, don't make your classes more interesting than they need to be.
Remember, you have a responsibility to protect everyone from everyone in your training courses.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:58   #88
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I guess there wasn't enough new added safety threads so an old one had to be resurrected?
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:40   #89
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I guess there wasn't enough new added safety threads so an old one had to be resurrected?
Here we go again...
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:43   #90
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Here we go again...
What? There's a ton of these safety threads which the OP to this one has posted in. How many do we need?
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:53   #91
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What? There's a ton of these safety threads which the OP to this one has posted in. How many do we need?
Exactly.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:40   #92
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Exactly.
Oh, I thought you meant "Here goes this guy again."
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Old 11-13-2013, 15:13   #93
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You are really, really bad at analogies.
The only thing I've taken from this thread, aside from a few laughs, is this. ^
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Old 11-13-2013, 18:39   #94
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Sorry OP, but this is exactly why I don't automatically " respect" instructors of any type of firearms classes. Whether it's cpl, etc. Not only is it jaded that you will be teaching people about concealed carry, you are using a " questionable" non factory, not needed safety device in a manor it wasn't designed to be used. (Referring to the wrong hand saf t block in the gun and using a goofy technique to remove it)
To be quite honest I bet if u showed the right people your wrong " safety" device they might take your ability to teach cpl classes away.....

Last edited by plumbum2; 11-13-2013 at 18:41..
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:02   #95
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Sorry OP, but this is exactly why I don't automatically " respect" instructors of any type of firearms classes. Whether it's cpl, etc. Not only is it jaded that you will be teaching people about concealed carry, you are using a " questionable" non factory, not needed safety device in a manor it wasn't designed to be used. (Referring to the wrong hand saf t block in the gun and using a goofy technique to remove it)
To be quite honest I bet if u showed the right people your wrong " safety" device they might take your ability to teach cpl classes away.....
Amen. Instructor eh... hey look at me, I'm an expert
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:51   #96
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
Haven't had a lot of time to post, in the past weeks, I attended Glock Armorers school, became a NRA Refuse to be a Victim Instructor, and started teaching our states Concealed Carry classes.

Beer? You guys go ahead and guzzle that stuff, while some of us go about making sure the Republic stands, and the Second Amendment group is safe while upholding your freedoms.
If the credentials in your signature are indeed true, it frightens me that you are interacting with many people with no firearms experience whatsoever who are relying on you to give them adequate safety training to carry a firearm because they don't know any better.

You should just change your method of instruction to reccommend that people just buy a pistol with a FACTORY INSTALLED manual safety. I would at least have respect for that stance. Your inclusion of aftermarket "safety" devices, especially ones that go inside the trigger guard in your training regimen is just downright negligent. It is even more frightening that you think teaching your students about this item is a good idea.

In my opinion, and I am sure many will agree, you truly have no business teaching anyone anything regarding firearm safety.

Last edited by Roger1079; 11-14-2013 at 08:55..
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Old 11-14-2013, 13:59   #97
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If you are using this with a sherpa, you have accomplished something. You have made getting the gun out of a sherpa as safe as any other holster; of course relative safety after that is debatable.

In addition to modifying a questionable design holster, you have created a situation that if you need to shoot right hand only, and if the sherpa mechanism isn't jammed, you can't eject the trigger block right hand only. Yep - that's pretty safe.
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Old 11-14-2013, 14:06   #98
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If the credentials in your signature are indeed true, it frightens me that you are interacting with many people with no firearms experience whatsoever who are relying on you to give them adequate safety training to carry a firearm because they don't know any better.
Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
You should just change your method of instruction to reccommend that people just buy a pistol with a FACTORY INSTALLED manual safety. I would at least have respect for that stance. Your inclusion of aftermarket "safety" devices, especially ones that go inside the trigger guard in your training regimen is just downright negligent. It is even more frightening that you think teaching your students about this item is a good idea.
Agree.

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In my opinion, and I am sure many will agree, you truly have no business teaching anyone anything regarding firearm safety.
This is pretty harsh. Maybe "rethinking your position" and "considering other knowledgeable persons/instructors opinions before you go completely "off-script" regarding course content" is more constructive advice.
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Old 11-14-2013, 14:22   #99
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This is pretty harsh. Maybe "rethinking your position" and "considering other knowledgeable persons/instructors opinions before you go completely "off-script" regarding course content" is more constructive advice.
In my opinion, and I am sure many will agree, you truly have no business teaching anyone anything regarding firearm safety unless you are willing to remove the negligent safety practices from your class. Condoning the use of a safety device that involves sticking something inside the trigger guard by someone with little or no firearms training is a certain recipe for an accidental discharge and possible legal liability on your part if you are teaching these methods as part of a firearms safety course.

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Old 11-14-2013, 14:45   #100
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I applaud the OP's commitment to train with safety block to be both safe and proficient. To me the time/effort spent training with the extra piece of equipment and all the eventualities that may present themselves because of the addition of the block would simply be better spent training trigger discipline.

I recall somebody asked along the way (I think the OP) if there is such a thing as too safe. Well I would say of course there is... Practically anything can be pushed passed the point where not only are returns diminished but where you are creating more negatives and the untended consequences become too numerous to try to plan for.

We can produce cars and traffic rules/enforcement that would practically eliminate all traffic fatalities.... but the suffering and economic consequences that would flow from all that would be more intolerable than the death toll we currently have.
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