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Old 07-16-2013, 18:19   #76
GThirtyTwo
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If you insist on a safety block or some other such devise, get all of them. Add a thumb safety, get a grip plug, safety block, never carry on a loaded chamber, and cut off your trigger finger.
Thanks, you just made my laugh so hard that beer came out my nose.
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Old 07-16-2013, 18:33   #77
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
You are one brave dude, ShallNot, for offering this topic for discussion. I hope it stays civil just for the sake of discussing Glock pistols in the context of safe handling practices.

I've never tried the trigger block simply because I have read that they are known to fall out. This is clearly not consistent with your experience, or you wouldn't recommend them, so I'm wondering if there are several manufacturers with one brand being better than others.

The fundamental questions are: Can anyone train trigger finger discipline sufficiently to assure that a ND will not happen under all circumstances of Glock handling? How does one know when such level of training has been achieved? Is a safety device like the trigger block or the Comonilli safety detrimental to 'normal' daily handling of Glock pistols?

I agree with you that it is perfectly sensible for one to err on the side of adopting 'extra' safety measures with Glock pistols, particularly new shooters and shooters new to Glock pistols; this seems intuitively obvious.

I take the theme of this thread to be that adding a safety device like the trigger block (I'm still chewin' on the notion of a left hand block for right hand shooters) to Glock pistols is reasonable, but opting not to do so is reasonable as well for folks experienced with the Glock operating system.
You are making it sound like there is something extremely complicated about the Glock's safeties and also making it seem as if Glock pistols are any more dangerous than any other striker fired pistol without a manual safety.

It is really quite simple. Don't pull the trigger with your finger or pull it by snagging it on something while reholstering it and the pistol will not fire. Period. That is as complicated as it gets. The most difficult the training needs to get is instructing students to keep their appendages outside the trigger guard until they are ready to fire the pistol.
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Old 07-16-2013, 19:09   #78
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Have not seen the OP lately. Maybe he DID cut off his trigger finger, for safety of course, and cannot type on the keyboard anymore.
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Old 07-16-2013, 20:20   #79
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Beer Abuse

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Originally Posted by GThirtyTwo View Post
Thanks, you just made my laugh so hard that beer came out my nose.
GThirtyTwo,

I seriously apologize for adding humor to the ridiculous, uh I mean serious thread about ridiculous, uh I mean safe T blocks. I feel so bad about the loss of beer over something so stupid as a Safe T block that if you pm me your address I will seriously send you a five dollar bill to replace your beer.

Talking about beer is far more important than talking about safe T blocks, empty chambers and every other ridiculous thing that makes it harder to engage a Glock when you need it.

So about beer, I am now hooked on Redds apple beer. Friend turned me onto it and now I am hooked. However, I keep cutting my lip on the sharp edge created by the pull tab. Is anyone using the Safe T tab? Or should I just try and suck the beer through the side of the can for safety sake. Maybe I could build a device that opens the can in another room and pours it into a glass for me. No, the glass COULD cut me, maybe just a Red Solo Cup for safe T sake.

But then I will have an empty sharp beer can, far to hazardous to handle. Does anybody use the safe T can aluminum can dispenser? I gotta stop, this could go on forever.
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Old 11-12-2013, 22:31   #80
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Haven't had a lot of time to post, in the past weeks, I attended Glock Armorers school, became a NRA Refuse to be a Victim Instructor, and started teaching our states Concealed Carry classes.

Beer? You guys go ahead and guzzle that stuff, while some of us go about making sure the Republic stands, and the Second Amendment group is safe while upholding your freedoms.
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Old 11-12-2013, 22:34   #81
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
In my experience, there are two schools of thought about Glock and other striker fired pistols that don't have a manual safety: The dominant position is that a manual safety isn't needed because training and experience will produce mental conditioning that prevents putting one's finger inside the guard until the target is acquired and the decision has been made to shoot. The much less popular opinion is that NDs can happen despite training and experience, particularly during administrative handling, so a manual safety device reduces the risk of NDs.

This debate comes down to what the gun owner is personally comfortable with, and I can't argue against that. After all, we are each personally responsible and accountable for our behavior with firearms. My misgivings arise with new shooters, first-time Glock owners and others who carry striker-fired pistols in C1 without the necessary training and experience.

With respect to what or how an instructor approaches training with a Glock, my view is that inexperienced shooters should be advised to use a NY trigger, a safety device or carry unchambered until competence is achieved. My layman's perspective will be viewed as too conservative or overreaching by many, but safety should be the instructor's first priority, in my opinion.
Thank you for a good, well articulated post.
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Old 11-12-2013, 22:43   #82
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When I want my Glock to be perfectly safe, I don't pull the trigger. Problem solved. Works with both hands and it's free.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:07   #83
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
When I want my Glock to be perfectly safe, I don't pull the trigger. Problem solved. Works with both hands and it's free.
Does your car have windshield wipers? For rain, they make it possible to drive.

Do windshield wipers work in all weather conditions?

Your finger safety rule is like windshield wipers. They work most of the time.

I want my safety to work no matter what SHTF.

sent from my rotary wall phone
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:14   #84
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That's like putting a cover over the ignition of your car because you don't want to inadvertently start it. Despite the fact you must insert a key and turn it before it will start in the first place.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:16   #85
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The only thing that I want in my trigger guard is my trigger finger, at the proper time.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:34   #86
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
Does your car have windshield wipers? For rain, they make it possible to drive.

Do windshield wipers work in all weather conditions?

Your finger safety rule is like windshield wipers. They work most of the time.

I want my safety to work no matter what SHTF.

sent from my rotary wall phone
A Glock without a Saf T Blok is like windshield wipers? You are really, really bad at analogies.

Not to mention, not pulling the trigger works all the time. Lack of confidence in your abiliities should be fixed with training and practice, not by stuffing little plastic blocks behind your trigger so you don't shoot your eye out.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:27   #87
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Never induce anything into your training environment that may compromise safety.
With that said, I talked to a couple of instructors about the introduction and requirement of the Saf-t-Locks in training for concealed carry classes and range certification for such classes.
I can honestly say my colleagues were as shocked as I was at this idea.
You are introducing people to the world being armed in public. This in and of itself is going to bring about certain changes in their psyche. Now, with my experience in training and signing off for concealed carry permits in Minnesota, roughly 75% of the people I trained had no experience with firearms and 50% never touched a handgun.
Adding a product to supplement user knowledge and safety, especially one that is placed within the trigger guard, is "An Absolute Negligent Discharge" in the making. That might sound harsh, but so does the thought of having someone I am responsible for getting injured.
I am not saying they are bad, however, this is an item that should only be considered by, used by, and trained with by those with a substantial amount of experience with the Glock platform.
Don't open yourself up to any liability issues by considering this tiem as a mandatory training device.
I have had enough problems with first time shooters wanting to leave fingers on the trigger when going to re-holster. I don't even want to imagine what could go wrong with a first time shooter fumbling finger syndrome when they have to get rounds down range.
You will encounter many interesting training challenges, don't make your classes more interesting than they need to be.
Remember, you have a responsibility to protect everyone from everyone in your training courses.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:58   #88
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I guess there wasn't enough new added safety threads so an old one had to be resurrected?
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:40   #89
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I guess there wasn't enough new added safety threads so an old one had to be resurrected?
Here we go again...
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:43   #90
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Here we go again...
What? There's a ton of these safety threads which the OP to this one has posted in. How many do we need?
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:53   #91
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What? There's a ton of these safety threads which the OP to this one has posted in. How many do we need?
Exactly.
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:40   #92
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Exactly.
Oh, I thought you meant "Here goes this guy again."
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Old 11-13-2013, 14:13   #93
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You are really, really bad at analogies.
The only thing I've taken from this thread, aside from a few laughs, is this. ^
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Old 11-13-2013, 17:39   #94
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Sorry OP, but this is exactly why I don't automatically " respect" instructors of any type of firearms classes. Whether it's cpl, etc. Not only is it jaded that you will be teaching people about concealed carry, you are using a " questionable" non factory, not needed safety device in a manor it wasn't designed to be used. (Referring to the wrong hand saf t block in the gun and using a goofy technique to remove it)
To be quite honest I bet if u showed the right people your wrong " safety" device they might take your ability to teach cpl classes away.....

Last edited by plumbum2; 11-13-2013 at 17:41..
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:02   #95
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Sorry OP, but this is exactly why I don't automatically " respect" instructors of any type of firearms classes. Whether it's cpl, etc. Not only is it jaded that you will be teaching people about concealed carry, you are using a " questionable" non factory, not needed safety device in a manor it wasn't designed to be used. (Referring to the wrong hand saf t block in the gun and using a goofy technique to remove it)
To be quite honest I bet if u showed the right people your wrong " safety" device they might take your ability to teach cpl classes away.....
Amen. Instructor eh... hey look at me, I'm an expert
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:51   #96
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
Haven't had a lot of time to post, in the past weeks, I attended Glock Armorers school, became a NRA Refuse to be a Victim Instructor, and started teaching our states Concealed Carry classes.

Beer? You guys go ahead and guzzle that stuff, while some of us go about making sure the Republic stands, and the Second Amendment group is safe while upholding your freedoms.
If the credentials in your signature are indeed true, it frightens me that you are interacting with many people with no firearms experience whatsoever who are relying on you to give them adequate safety training to carry a firearm because they don't know any better.

You should just change your method of instruction to reccommend that people just buy a pistol with a FACTORY INSTALLED manual safety. I would at least have respect for that stance. Your inclusion of aftermarket "safety" devices, especially ones that go inside the trigger guard in your training regimen is just downright negligent. It is even more frightening that you think teaching your students about this item is a good idea.

In my opinion, and I am sure many will agree, you truly have no business teaching anyone anything regarding firearm safety.

Last edited by Roger1079; 11-14-2013 at 07:55..
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:59   #97
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If you are using this with a sherpa, you have accomplished something. You have made getting the gun out of a sherpa as safe as any other holster; of course relative safety after that is debatable.

In addition to modifying a questionable design holster, you have created a situation that if you need to shoot right hand only, and if the sherpa mechanism isn't jammed, you can't eject the trigger block right hand only. Yep - that's pretty safe.
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Old 11-14-2013, 13:06   #98
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If the credentials in your signature are indeed true, it frightens me that you are interacting with many people with no firearms experience whatsoever who are relying on you to give them adequate safety training to carry a firearm because they don't know any better.
Agree.

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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
You should just change your method of instruction to reccommend that people just buy a pistol with a FACTORY INSTALLED manual safety. I would at least have respect for that stance. Your inclusion of aftermarket "safety" devices, especially ones that go inside the trigger guard in your training regimen is just downright negligent. It is even more frightening that you think teaching your students about this item is a good idea.
Agree.

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In my opinion, and I am sure many will agree, you truly have no business teaching anyone anything regarding firearm safety.
This is pretty harsh. Maybe "rethinking your position" and "considering other knowledgeable persons/instructors opinions before you go completely "off-script" regarding course content" is more constructive advice.
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Old 11-14-2013, 13:22   #99
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This is pretty harsh. Maybe "rethinking your position" and "considering other knowledgeable persons/instructors opinions before you go completely "off-script" regarding course content" is more constructive advice.
In my opinion, and I am sure many will agree, you truly have no business teaching anyone anything regarding firearm safety unless you are willing to remove the negligent safety practices from your class. Condoning the use of a safety device that involves sticking something inside the trigger guard by someone with little or no firearms training is a certain recipe for an accidental discharge and possible legal liability on your part if you are teaching these methods as part of a firearms safety course.

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Old 11-14-2013, 13:45   #100
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I applaud the OP's commitment to train with safety block to be both safe and proficient. To me the time/effort spent training with the extra piece of equipment and all the eventualities that may present themselves because of the addition of the block would simply be better spent training trigger discipline.

I recall somebody asked along the way (I think the OP) if there is such a thing as too safe. Well I would say of course there is... Practically anything can be pushed passed the point where not only are returns diminished but where you are creating more negatives and the untended consequences become too numerous to try to plan for.

We can produce cars and traffic rules/enforcement that would practically eliminate all traffic fatalities.... but the suffering and economic consequences that would flow from all that would be more intolerable than the death toll we currently have.
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