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Old 07-07-2013, 23:08   #51
p99guy
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So whats the deal with the serpa?
I never had any problems with the USMC issued one and Beretta M9,
Or the Law Enforcement Duty model on my side right now with a Glock 31...

The safety bloc, I'm not a fan of, and never plan to buy.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:11   #52
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In my experience, there are two schools of thought about Glock and other striker fired pistols that don't have a manual safety: The dominant position is that a manual safety isn't needed because training and experience will produce mental conditioning that prevents putting one's finger inside the guard until the target is acquired and the decision has been made to shoot. The much less popular opinion is that NDs can happen despite training and experience, particularly during administrative handling, so a manual safety device reduces the risk of NDs.

This debate comes down to what the gun owner is personally comfortable with, and I can't argue against that. After all, we are each personally responsible and accountable for our behavior with firearms. My misgivings arise with new shooters, first-time Glock owners and others who carry striker-fired pistols in C1 without the necessary training and experience.

With respect to what or how an instructor approaches training with a Glock, my view is that inexperienced shooters should be advised to use a NY trigger, a safety device or carry unchambered until competence is achieved. My layman's perspective will be viewed as too conservative or overreaching by many, but safety should be the instructor's first priority, in my opinion.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 07-08-2013 at 09:18..
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:55   #53
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There's not one. Some folks expect them to prevent the gun from firing if they pull the trigger.
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Originally Posted by p99guy View Post
So whats the deal with the serpa?
I never had any problems with the USMC issued one and Beretta M9,
Or the Law Enforcement Duty model on my side right now with a Glock 31...

The safety bloc, I'm not a fan of, and never plan to buy.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:37   #54
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First of all, if I decided to take a course and you told me I had to use one of these, Id tell you to go pound sand. Its ridiculous. If you need a trigger block, you have no business having a glock. Get something with multiple external safeties. KEEP YOUR DARN FINGER OUT OF THE TRIGGER,
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:42   #55
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My G19 manual, REV.03/10, contains the following:

"The higher level of preparedness required of law enforcement and military personnel may override the following safety instructions. To provide safety while operating at a higher level of preparedness, proper initial combat oriented training and a reasonable amount of periodic training, which stresses safe tactical procedures, is recommended." [page 1]

"FAILURE TO ADHERE TO SAFETY INFORMATION AND SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS IN THIS MANUAL COULD RESULT IN PROPERTY DAMAGE, PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH." [page 1]

"GLOCK PISTOLS HAVE SEVERAL INTERNAL DESIGN FEATURES AND MECHANICAL SAFETIES [only] TO PREVENT DISCHARGE SHOULD THE PISTOL BE DROPPED OR RECEIVE A SEVERE BLOW TO THE MUZZLE FRONT, OR BACK OF THE PISTOL.

THEREFORE, EXTRA CARE AND STRICT ADHERENCE TO THE SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND OTHER INSTRUCTIONS CONTAINED IN THIS MANUAL BY THE GUN USER IS MANDATORY FOR MINIMIZING THE RISK OF ACCIDENTS." [page 3]

"CAUTION: DO NOT CARRY THE PISTOL IN THE READY TO FIRE CONDITION. THIS IS NOT THE RECOMMENDED SAFE-CARRYING METHOD FOR CIVILIAN USE." [page 15]

The typical response to these printed safety instructions is that they are dictated by legal considerations more than operator safety concerns. While this may be true, I wonder if a firearm instructor can/should ignore such warnings when students do not have the level of training and experience needed to operate a Glock pistol safely. Is there legal risk involved? Is there a question as to the ethical requirement to fully disclose Glock's safety instructions to inexperienced students? I don't know, I'm just asking. This fits into the discussion about trigger blocks, the NY trigger and other manual safety devices which might be appropriate for classroom discussion.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 07-08-2013 at 13:59..
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:47   #56
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Trigger-block safety (bad idea-your finger spends way too much time around the trigger when you don't need it to-that in itself is way unsafe) inside a Serpa Holster? Sounds like a bad idea to me, inserting a chamber loaded gun into a holster with something stuck in the trigger guard.

If you feel you need this much safety, carry chamber empty. You're using 2 hands, but at least it's a gross motor movement using an overhand method to load, versus a fine motor movement to pop out the block in the trigger guard-keep it simple. It's probably way safer than popping out the trigger block with your off-hand finger. In a crisis situation, your world truly turns to s%^t.

I think in your quest to be extremely safe, you have overthough the solution. Try chamber loaded in a Safariland ALS 6738. Grab the handgun grip, use your thumb to disengage the holster lock and draw.

Definately, don't try to help new students with your safety methods. Leave it to them to come up with their own safety plan.
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Old 07-09-2013, 13:42   #57
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The idea of using a left handed trigger block safety for right handed shooters is an intriguing one from an officer safety standpoint. Should an officer lose his handgun to a bad guy it would certainly buy the officer some time to sort things out.
That would backfire...most sinister people are left-handed.
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Old 07-09-2013, 14:20   #58
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Mas Ayoob has stated that a manual safety, like the Cominolli, on a Glock might confuse a bad guy who has grabbed someone's SD gun. Anyone who knows Glocks like most bad guys do certainly wouldn't expect a safety, so it might work. That period of confusion might provide time to get away or defend in some way.
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Old 07-09-2013, 14:59   #59
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Putting your trigger finger inside the trigger-guard when not totally ready to shoot, even if it is to pop out a piece of plastic, isn't a good idea, IMO.
This. How many ADs have occured when trying to "unsafe" the gun. I'm sorry but this is a bad idea IMO. I've seen ADs happen as soon as the safety was taken off.
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Old 07-09-2013, 15:17   #60
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This. How many ADs have occured when trying to "unsafe" the gun. I'm sorry but this is a bad idea IMO. I've seen ADs happen as soon as the safety was taken off.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but what is it about the act of flicking off a manual safety that contributes to NDs? Anyone who carries a 1911, millions of 'em, "unsafe" their gun routinely without incident. Thanks.
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Old 07-09-2013, 20:43   #61
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Placing a 1911 pattern pistol on safe does not require your off hand index finger to travel into the trigger guard.
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Old 07-09-2013, 22:15   #62
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I don't get it if I didn't feel a Glock is safe why the heck would I buy one. Just go buy and carry a gun with an external safety, why mess with Glock and your putting your safety into a little piece of plastic you wedge in the trigger. I can tell you nobody who has been in a shooting situation is ever going to wedge anything in their trigger guard. Just don't get a revolver they don't have safeties and nobody makes a plastic thing to stick in the trigger guard. A plastic wedge you stick in your trigger guard it sounds like something the Obama administration would come up with. Here is the way to truly carry your Glock safely, carry it empty with a bullet in your shirt pocket. I try to support the second amendment but some people just should mess with guns. How about a plastic thing you stick in the barrel if the plastic thing in the trigger guard fails.

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Old 07-09-2013, 22:31   #63
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What happened to the OP?
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Old 07-09-2013, 22:39   #64
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Late to this party but if safety is the #1 concern an empty chamber is the most logical solution. The trigger block is gimmicky and requires awkward manipulation to ready the pistol. OP, you are talking about using having to adapt your grip to remove the block. Tap and rack is something that is taught in defensive pistol classes and is more than likely safer and faster than trying to dislodge a piece of plastic from behind the trigger. Your justification of safety as the only reason for this object baffles me when there are safer options. I would recommend to anyone wary of carrying a Glock that is apprehensive of chambered carry to carry empty chamber before carrying with the Safety-Blok or whatever it is called.

As far as the SERPA holster goes with proper training and practice they are as safe as any other holster I know of. When you get sloppy or train incorrectly any unholstering of a firearm becomes dangerous.

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Old 07-10-2013, 01:09   #65
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
However, when I start teaching the class as the Instructor, and being the CRSO on the range, in about 6 months, all Glocks in my class, in the hands of green Glock students, will be issued a Trigger Block Safety, and trained how to use it, and will use it on the range. LEOs and Glock trained people coming in to re-qualify for a CHP, I will allow to qualify on the range as they would normally use their firearm, but will be offered to try the trigger block safety.
Let's say you get two new students. One shows up with their first Glock to be fired for the first time. They are experienced with revolvers but this is their first semi-auto. Maybe they've even had a NY1 or 2 trigger installed for a more familiar feel.

The second student has never fired a gun before and shows up with a DAO revolver.

Are you seriously going to make the student with the Glock install and use a Safe-t-block while requiring nothing extra of the other?

I'm not slamming your personal safety precautions at all. Even in the classroom, if you were to say you didn't trust new students with that setup for your own safety due to negative past experience, then I'd have less of an issue. Showing a class what you practice and offering them the opportunity to try it is fine. But, requiring someone to use it just because seems to put out the message that something is wrong with the student's weapon and they need to find another. I'd also expect some to want to seek another instructor.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:23   #66
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Let's say you get two new students. One shows up with their first Glock to be fired for the first time. They are experienced with revolvers but this is their first semi-auto. Maybe they've even had a NY1 or 2 trigger installed for a more familiar feel.

The second student has never fired a gun before and shows up with a DAO revolver.

Are you seriously going to make the student with the Glock install and use a Safe-t-block while requiring nothing extra of the other?

I'm not slamming your personal safety precautions at all. Even in the classroom, if you were to say you didn't trust new students with that setup for your own safety due to negative past experience, then I'd have less of an issue. Showing a class what you practice and offering them the opportunity to try it is fine. But, requiring someone to use it just because seems to put out the message that something is wrong with the student's weapon and they need to find another. I'd also expect some to want to seek another instructor.
You make a valid point for the scenario you describe. However, I doubt many new Glock shooters show up for firearm instruction with a NY trigger.

I think new shooters who buy Glock pistols would be well served by competent instruction on safe handling with a 5# trigger. The same could be said for new shooters who buy a 1911 with its light trigger pull.

My comments are only meant to suggest instructors would be serving students well by spending some time talking about safe operation with a Glock. I didn't read all of the safety instructions in the manual when I bought my first Glock, and I suspect many people don't. I wasn't knowledgeable about the trigger pull difference between a Glock and a revolver, either. I wasn't aware of the level of training and experience needed to carry a Glock safely. How many new shooters learn these important facts when they buy a Glock pistol? Probably not many.

This thread started out as an instructor's endorsement for the trigger block to add a measure of safety to the use of Glocks. I'm not going that far, but it seems instructors could include material specifically about handling Glocks safely and the need for training and experience as suggested in the manual. I sure could have used the information.

One could argue that my comments apply to all handguns, not just Glocks. In large measure, that is absolutely true.
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Old 07-15-2013, 23:41   #67
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What happened to the OP?
Still reading the Glock manual! lol

Great posts in this thread, thanks much everyone that has contributed. Not new to guns, but new to firearms safety instruction.

One day I see a slight advantage in one in the pipe, and the next day, I see the advantage to ammo in the mag only.

I feel the greatest safety consideration is not can someone respond to a threat in time with the pipe empty, as the safety issues carrying a short pull, light pull, striker fired semiautomatic pistol around family, friends, community in a possible threat environment.

Today, my trigger block safety's are out of my Glocks, but so are the rounds from the chambers.

Tomorrow? That will depend on training, practice, and deep soul searching.
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:32   #68
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post

Today, my trigger block safety's are out of my Glocks, but so are the rounds from the chambers.

Tomorrow? That will depend on training, practice, and deep soul searching.
I feel this thread was positive and constructive if we were able to help you loose the Safety Blok and carry in a more prepared manner than before. Hopefully you will gain the confidence to carry +1 one day soon and put yourself in the best position if use of your firearm is ever required.
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:50   #69
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Why would you even own a Glock if you find it necessary to block the trigger?

If I was scared of a gun with no safety, then Id buy one with a safety built in.

There are better guns that Glocks that have safeties. But I dont like safeties.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:36   #70
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I feel this thread was positive and constructive if we were able to help you loose the Safety Blok and carry in a more prepared manner than before. Hopefully you will gain the confidence to carry +1 one day soon and put yourself in the best position if use of your firearm is ever required.
I think it was constructive if some readers were sensitized to the need for experience, training and a quality holster to carry a Glock safely. Its also constructive when alternatives to Glocks are suggested for folks who are uncomfortable carrying a chambered Glock. Conversations about firearm safety tend to plant important seeds for thought.
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Old 07-16-2013, 13:40   #71
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There are two primary groups of people in the gun world. Folks that have had Negligent Discharges of their firearms, and those that have not YET experienced a Negligent Discharge.
So in your opinion EVERYONE who owns a firearm will experience a negligent or accidental discharge? If they haven't already, they will at some point? I don't know what kind of people in the gun world you associate with, but you may want to find a new group to go shooting with as it sounds liek the ones you know are highly incompetent and shouldn't be handling firearms in the first place.

If you follow the most basic rules of firearms handling, negligent and accidental discharges can be avoided entirely.

1. Treat the gun as if it is always loaded, even if you just put it down for a second. Always check that the magazine is out and the chamber is empty if it has left your hands or sight.

2. Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to put a hole in.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.

4. Make sure your holster is in good condition and has nothing in the way that could snag the trigger when reholstering the firearm. If your holster is leather, make sure the area covering the trigger guard is not worn to the point where pressure from an object could snag the trigger. (This one goes hand in hand with number 3.)

These 4 rules are all that are necessary to avoid accidents. You don't need some peice of plastic wedged behind the trigger to be safe with a firearm. It is obvious you don't feel comfortable with the safety mechanisms of the Glock pistol, so why not just go for one of the hundreds of other available options with an external safety?
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Old 07-16-2013, 13:44   #72
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Still reading the Glock manual! lol

Great posts in this thread, thanks much everyone that has contributed. Not new to guns, but new to firearms safety instruction.

One day I see a slight advantage in one in the pipe, and the next day, I see the advantage to ammo in the mag only.

I feel the greatest safety consideration is not can someone respond to a threat in time with the pipe empty, as the safety issues carrying a short pull, light pull, striker fired semiautomatic pistol around family, friends, community in a possible threat environment.

Today, my trigger block safety's are out of my Glocks, but so are the rounds from the chambers.

Tomorrow? That will depend on training, practice, and deep soul searching.
This is progress. Please do not take my previous post as being condescending as that was not my intention.

I too carried with an empty chamber for the first couple weeks. Once I felt comfortable that I had a good holster and I could safely remove and reholster the pistol without issue, I started carrying with one in the pipe and have never looked back. You will get there. Just remember, your holster choice is equally as important as the rest of the basic safety rules for any pistol.
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Old 07-16-2013, 17:19   #73
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Flipping 13'er....
Complete moronic thought process. Someone that has no idea what a real SD situation from concealment is like. I pray you never have to find out.
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Old 07-16-2013, 17:40   #74
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I gottta get in on this.......

Glocks come with three safeties from the factory.

Load it, keep your booger hook off the trigger it will not fire.

Drop it, it will not fire.

If you insist on a safety block or some other such devise, get all of them. Add a thumb safety, get a grip plug, safety block, never carry on a loaded chamber, and cut off your trigger finger.
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Old 07-16-2013, 18:19   #75
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I won't rag on your liberal safety device, but I must say that if you don't feel comfortable enough with a Glock after 20 years that you are still using a Safe-T-Block, then it might be time to retire the Glock and get you something you can feel more confident/safe with.

I would suggest a DA/SA trigger config with a manual safety.
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