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Old 07-07-2013, 04:44   #26
fortheboys
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My only problem is this:
"However, when I start teaching the class as the Instructor, and being the CRSO on the range, in about 6 months, all Glocks in my class, in the hands of green Glock students, will be issued a Trigger Block Safety, and trained how to use it, and will use it on the range."
Are you saying, you are going to MAKE them use it or suggest using it? If you are going to make them use it, I disagree with that as you are teaching how to shoot with an item that did not come with their weapon. It should be up to the individual. Just my two cents.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:01   #27
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Originally Posted by Frank V View Post
Hope your buddy recovered fully.
Frank, this happened a loooong time ago. Ron, the fellow who was shot, was the guy who told me the whole story, so he was OK.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:15   #28
Bill Lumberg
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Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryobi View Post
Incorrect. No fail involved with SERPA. While there are far better options, serpas work great in the hands of a competent shooter. Not comparable with a duty holster, but not comical like a safe-t-block or siderlock. That said, safariland 6377 is a better choice.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:17   #29
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Proves the point- there are knowledgeable instructors and not so knowledgeable. I can't imagine suggesting much less issuing saf-t-blocks to students.
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Originally Posted by fortheboys View Post
My only problem is this:
"However, when I start teaching the class as the Instructor, and being the CRSO on the range, in about 6 months, all Glocks in my class, in the hands of green Glock students, will be issued a Trigger Block Safety, and trained how to use it, and will use it on the range."
Are you saying, you are going to MAKE them use it or suggest using it? If you are going to make them use it, I disagree with that as you are teaching how to shoot with an item that did not come with their weapon. It should be up to the individual. Just my two cents.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:55   #30
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To OP...In a critical moment don't let old muscle memory coupled with new technique get you killed.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:53   #31
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As others have pointed out, the bigger safety issue here is your choice in holster. I wouldn't consider the Serpa holsters the safest solution, especially if your perceived potential safety issue is one in particular that requires you to use the safety block. IMO, the combination of the Serpa and the safety block cancel each other out in terms of their effect on reducing the probability of an ND.

When weighing the pros and cons, I personally don't see the net benefit to employing a safety block. However, I realize that each individuals comfort level with firearm safety is a personal issue, and I don't condemn you for your choice.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:31   #32
Ryobi
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If you're damaged enough that your unsafe with a SERPA, you're unsafe with any holster. That being said, a gimmick behind the trigger just makes it worse.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:11   #33
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Wow. Forcing students to submit to your line of thinking no matter how paranoid. There is no way the op is serious. There is no way anyone in their right mind signed off on the op as an instructor. This thread has gone full retard.

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Old 07-07-2013, 10:26   #34
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
I think the vast majority of people here, will never encounter a Negligent Discharge.

Some here, not many, but some, may.

I hope, and plan, that I never will.
Didn't you say a couple posts ago that the only kinds of people are those who have had, and those who will have, NDs? Now there's a third group? It's getting hard to follow the NDs (negligent derailings) in your thought processes. Perhaps you need a safety on them. Maybe like another piece of plastic, this one around your brain.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:03   #35
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OP, I'm sure you have the best intent in your heart for gun safety for your possible "green" students. If you are that concerned why not just have them qualify with something other than a Glock, something designed with a safety, not some gimmicky trigger block safety.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:16   #36
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You are one brave dude, ShallNot, for offering this topic for discussion. I hope it stays civil just for the sake of discussing Glock pistols in the context of safe handling practices.

I've never tried the trigger block simply because I have read that they are known to fall out. This is clearly not consistent with your experience, or you wouldn't recommend them, so I'm wondering if there are several manufacturers with one brand being better than others.

The fundamental questions are: Can anyone train trigger finger discipline sufficiently to assure that a ND will not happen under all circumstances of Glock handling? How does one know when such level of training has been achieved? Is a safety device like the trigger block or the Comonilli safety detrimental to 'normal' daily handling of Glock pistols?

I agree with you that it is perfectly sensible for one to err on the side of adopting 'extra' safety measures with Glock pistols, particularly new shooters and shooters new to Glock pistols; this seems intuitively obvious.

I take the theme of this thread to be that adding a safety device like the trigger block (I'm still chewin' on the notion of a left hand block for right hand shooters) to Glock pistols is reasonable, but opting not to do so is reasonable as well for folks experienced with the Glock operating system.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:54   #37
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OP, if you ever find yourself on the receiving end of a ground and pound like GZ, you'll regret needing both hands to employ your weapon.

And I find it absolutely ridiculous that you plan to make your students add something to their gun that it didn't come from the factory with to pass your class. You might want to clear that with whoever signs off on making you an instructor first. They might not like the chances of liability.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:03   #38
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I agree with a few others here, Maybe a different brand and design gun would be better fitted to your thought process. For some reason all I see is you trying to pull the trigger with your right hand while you have your left pointer finger stuck behind it. LOL.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:12   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adams454 View Post

And I find it absolutely ridiculous that you plan to make your students add something to their gun that it didn't come from the factory with to pass your class. You might want to clear that with whoever signs off on making you an instructor first. They might not like the chances of liability.
Glocks come from the factory with an owner's manual that advises carrying with an chamber empty. I wonder what liability might accompany teaching students to carry the pistol in a manner contrary to the manufacturer's operating instructions.

Firearms instruction is tricky business, from a liability standpoint. Adhering to strict tenets of safety must be key among the instructor's responsibilities.

I don't know how teaching with an aftermarket safety device fits into the scheme of responsible teaching practices. Seems it would be ok unless the device is generally thought to add more risk than safety value.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:46   #40
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Glocks come from the factory with an owner's manual that advises carrying with an chamber empty. I wonder what liability might accompany teaching students to carry the pistol in a manner contrary to the manufacturer's operating instructions.

Firearms instruction is tricky business, from a liability standpoint. Adhering to strict tenets of safety must be key among the instructor's responsibilities.

I don't know how teaching with an aftermarket safety device fits into the scheme of responsible teaching practices. Seems it would be ok unless the device is generally thought to add more risk than safety value.
I can completely understand an instructor limiting the type of equipment allowed in class to limit liability (i.e. no glocks or no serpas) but I can't imagine an instructor (by himself, not the entire group) requiring the addition of an aftermarket product to a firearm to complete class. He would be telling his class that he knows better than Glock about pistol safety. And planting insecurity in the minds of his students.
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Old 07-07-2013, 13:00   #41
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Putting your trigger finger inside the trigger-guard when not totally ready to shoot, even if it is to pop out a piece of plastic, isn't a good idea, IMO.
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Old 07-07-2013, 15:39   #42
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I have not read through all of the posts here....

This being said, the one thing you cannot experience easily is the physiological reactions of your body when you have the unfortunate opportunity to be shot at...those who train constantly involving FoF training and other situation-based programs will have a better opportunity to understand and evaluate their body's response...

You will most likely be learning in the moment...

So, you train using alternate fingers and firearm manipulations to ditch the block, but the very real possibility is that when the poop-hits-the-fan, and the bullets start flying your way (or the BG charges you with a knife, bat, tire iron, etc) you will find a whole new sense of urgency in your actions...if your left arm has been injured you can add pain into then equation...and now you have to interrupt your brain cycling to change to a different tactic at ridding yourself of the block.

How may bullets will be let fly while you do that? How many times will the BG stick you, or smack you with his implement of choice? Enough to incapacitate you...or a loved one?

If you cannot, or will not accept the responsibility for using the Glock as made, perhaps you should change shooting platforms to one that offers an external safety, ie 1911 (ambi safety can be operated with both extremities or portions thereof), or perhaps a Sig with a DA/SA system.

Or, get a revolver.

Personally, I think you are either trolling or you just need to understand yourself and the firearm better.

Just my thoughts
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Old 07-07-2013, 20:28   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Glocks come from the factory with an owner's manual that advises carrying with an chamber empty. I wonder what liability might accompany teaching students to carry the pistol in a manner contrary to the manufacturer's operating instructions.

Firearms instruction is tricky business, from a liability standpoint. Adhering to strict tenets of safety must be key among the instructor's responsibilities.

I don't know how teaching with an aftermarket safety device fits into the scheme of responsible teaching practices. Seems it would be ok unless the device is generally thought to add more risk than safety value.

Very good post. However, suggesting everyone carry a Glock with ammo only in the magazine, is more unpopular than my suggestion of a trigger block safety.

How many here, have their chamber free of ammo while carrying a Glock? I would guess about 10%. So that would mean, 90% of the good people here are using their sidearm outside the manufactures recommendations?

Looking through on line Glock owners manuals, I see no reference to not carrying the Glock pistol with one in the chamber. Maybe I am missing that reference. What page number?
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Old 07-07-2013, 21:20   #44
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Just a note, I will not participate in this thread, if we as a group forget one thing, safety. Name calling, making fun of people, is uncalled for, and the few that have done that in this thread, should go back and adjust your posts.

This is why I am here, to divert this action, any way possible.

Safety First!

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Old 07-07-2013, 21:35   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post

Looking through on line Glock owners manuals, I see no reference to not carrying the Glock pistol with one in the chamber. Maybe I am missing that reference. What page number?
Page 13: "Caution: Do not carry the pistol in the ready to fire condition. This is not the recommended safe-carrying method for civilian use."

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Old 07-07-2013, 22:06   #46
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A lot of noise...
Boo hoo.
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Old 07-07-2013, 22:28   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit356tsw View Post
Page 13: "Caution: Do not carry the pistol in the ready to fire condition. This is not the recommended safe-carrying method for civilian use."
That being said, I'd bet the majority of us who carry a glock EDC have one in the chamber. Just MHO


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Old 07-07-2013, 22:36   #48
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That being said, I'd bet the majority of us who carry a glock EDC have one in the chamber. Just MHO


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The OP asked what page number in the Glock manual it said not to carry with one in the chamber.

I was making no statement on what the majority of concealed carriers do in real life, nor was I stating that it is better to follow Glock's advice.

Have a great evening.

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Old 07-07-2013, 22:43   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit356tsw View Post
Page 13: "Caution: Do not carry the pistol in the ready to fire condition. This is not the recommended safe-carrying method for civilian use."

Not in older manuals, that I can see.

However, being presented with manufactures guidelines, I would be less than prudent teaching a gun class for CHP people, any other way.

Thank you.

(personal note, Left hand trigger block safety is now out of my right hand use Glock, as well as the 10mm round in my now empty chamber)
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Old 07-07-2013, 22:47   #50
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
Not in older manuals, that I can see.

However, being presented with manufactures guidelines, I would be foolish to teach a gun class for CHP people, any other way.

Thank you.

(personal note, Left hand trigger block safety is now out of my right hand use Glock, as well as the 10mm round in my now empty chamber)
That is what was stated in my oldest manual that is Rev. 2/96. I have not looked in my newest manual.

Aside from that, Glock has to put that in their manual for legal reasons I am sure.

Have a great evening.

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