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Old 07-06-2013, 04:59   #21
Ryobi
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Incorrect. No fail involved with SERPA. While there are far better options, serpas work great in the hands of a competent shooter. Not comparable with a duty holster, but not comical like a safe-t-block or siderlock. That said, safariland 6377 is a better choice.
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That and using a Serpa. So much fail...


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Old 07-06-2013, 08:54   #22
Frank V
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The idea of using a left handed trigger block safety for right handed shooters is an intriguing one from an officer safety standpoint. Should an officer lose his handgun to a bad guy it would certainly buy the officer some time to sort things out.

Many years ago a buddy of mine was working a sting operation (phoney "pawn shop" buying swag from local burglars and robbers). Long story short, two bad guys (who he had done "business with" in the past) came in to stick the place up. One grabbed my buddies Browning Hi-Power, which was in condition one (cocked and locked). The bad guy had already shot my buddy once in the chest with a .32 (slug just stopped short of his heart) and tried to finish the job with the Browning. Never could figure out how to get the gun to go off.

He didn't do so well when the back-up team came through the door with their 12 gauge shotgun and put an end to the nonsense. And, no, the bad guy didn't have to worry about going to jail, as he took a dirt nap.

Hope your buddy recovered fully.
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Old 07-06-2013, 13:55   #23
glock_collector
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That safety block is too expensive and time consuming, I pound a wooden door shim in behind my trigger....cheaper and quicker
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Old 07-06-2013, 21:41   #24
ShallNotBeInfringed
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I was an RSO today with 15 concealed carry students. Range was about 100 rounds each student. Test is 30 rounds in a FBI Q target, 70% in to pass. 3', 6', 9' 12'. Never seen anyone fail it.

Two students had Glocks. 19 & 22 models. Both were new to Glocks, one was a new shooter.

Both were using Serpa II holsters.

It is interesting training people to use a safe action pistol with no external safeties, when I would never train or use my Glock in that way.

My personal commitment to safety, ammo never enters my Glock, unless the Trigger Block Safety is installed.

When I did my Concealed Carry Class, I qualified for my permit, using the trigger block safety. It was an extra step, but my personal fear of Glock Leg, is great. I made sure my students today were ever mindful of holstering their gun, and where their trigger finger was in relation to their gun. I do this with every student, but I am a little more cautious with Glocks.

This was not my class, I was one of five RSO's on the line.

However, when I start teaching the class as the Instructor, and being the CRSO on the range, in about 6 months, all Glocks in my class, in the hands of green Glock students, will be issued a Trigger Block Safety, and trained how to use it, and will use it on the range. LEOs and Glock trained people coming in to re-qualify for a CHP, I will allow to qualify on the range as they would normally use their firearm, but will be offered to try the trigger block safety.

Is this necessary? Is this too safe? Just exactly what is too safe?
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Old 07-06-2013, 21:54   #25
ShallNotBeInfringed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryobi View Post
Incorrect. No fail involved with SERPA. While there are far better options, serpas work great in the hands of a competent shooter. Not comparable with a duty holster, but not comical like a safe-t-block or siderlock. That said, safariland 6377 is a better choice.
Far better? Far better? Why are they far better?

Comical? If I post news articles where people, well trained people, negligent discharge one in their leg, would that be comical reading for you?

I know of a police dispatch office, with a hole above the 911 switchboard, put there by a 35 year veteran of a major police force. Third largest city in the state. Is that comical?

There is nothing funny, ever, about safety.

Here is a movie clip about gun safety. Great movie, but in real life, would this be prudent?

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Old 07-07-2013, 04:44   #26
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My only problem is this:
"However, when I start teaching the class as the Instructor, and being the CRSO on the range, in about 6 months, all Glocks in my class, in the hands of green Glock students, will be issued a Trigger Block Safety, and trained how to use it, and will use it on the range."
Are you saying, you are going to MAKE them use it or suggest using it? If you are going to make them use it, I disagree with that as you are teaching how to shoot with an item that did not come with their weapon. It should be up to the individual. Just my two cents.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:01   #27
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Hope your buddy recovered fully.
Frank, this happened a loooong time ago. Ron, the fellow who was shot, was the guy who told me the whole story, so he was OK.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:15   #28
Bill Lumberg
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Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryobi View Post
Incorrect. No fail involved with SERPA. While there are far better options, serpas work great in the hands of a competent shooter. Not comparable with a duty holster, but not comical like a safe-t-block or siderlock. That said, safariland 6377 is a better choice.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:17   #29
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Proves the point- there are knowledgeable instructors and not so knowledgeable. I can't imagine suggesting much less issuing saf-t-blocks to students.
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My only problem is this:
"However, when I start teaching the class as the Instructor, and being the CRSO on the range, in about 6 months, all Glocks in my class, in the hands of green Glock students, will be issued a Trigger Block Safety, and trained how to use it, and will use it on the range."
Are you saying, you are going to MAKE them use it or suggest using it? If you are going to make them use it, I disagree with that as you are teaching how to shoot with an item that did not come with their weapon. It should be up to the individual. Just my two cents.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:55   #30
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To OP...In a critical moment don't let old muscle memory coupled with new technique get you killed.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:53   #31
FriggetyFrak
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As others have pointed out, the bigger safety issue here is your choice in holster. I wouldn't consider the Serpa holsters the safest solution, especially if your perceived potential safety issue is one in particular that requires you to use the safety block. IMO, the combination of the Serpa and the safety block cancel each other out in terms of their effect on reducing the probability of an ND.

When weighing the pros and cons, I personally don't see the net benefit to employing a safety block. However, I realize that each individuals comfort level with firearm safety is a personal issue, and I don't condemn you for your choice.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:31   #32
Ryobi
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If you're damaged enough that your unsafe with a SERPA, you're unsafe with any holster. That being said, a gimmick behind the trigger just makes it worse.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:11   #33
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Wow. Forcing students to submit to your line of thinking no matter how paranoid. There is no way the op is serious. There is no way anyone in their right mind signed off on the op as an instructor. This thread has gone full retard.

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Old 07-07-2013, 10:26   #34
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
I think the vast majority of people here, will never encounter a Negligent Discharge.

Some here, not many, but some, may.

I hope, and plan, that I never will.
Didn't you say a couple posts ago that the only kinds of people are those who have had, and those who will have, NDs? Now there's a third group? It's getting hard to follow the NDs (negligent derailings) in your thought processes. Perhaps you need a safety on them. Maybe like another piece of plastic, this one around your brain.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:03   #35
carloglock19
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OP, I'm sure you have the best intent in your heart for gun safety for your possible "green" students. If you are that concerned why not just have them qualify with something other than a Glock, something designed with a safety, not some gimmicky trigger block safety.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:16   #36
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You are one brave dude, ShallNot, for offering this topic for discussion. I hope it stays civil just for the sake of discussing Glock pistols in the context of safe handling practices.

I've never tried the trigger block simply because I have read that they are known to fall out. This is clearly not consistent with your experience, or you wouldn't recommend them, so I'm wondering if there are several manufacturers with one brand being better than others.

The fundamental questions are: Can anyone train trigger finger discipline sufficiently to assure that a ND will not happen under all circumstances of Glock handling? How does one know when such level of training has been achieved? Is a safety device like the trigger block or the Comonilli safety detrimental to 'normal' daily handling of Glock pistols?

I agree with you that it is perfectly sensible for one to err on the side of adopting 'extra' safety measures with Glock pistols, particularly new shooters and shooters new to Glock pistols; this seems intuitively obvious.

I take the theme of this thread to be that adding a safety device like the trigger block (I'm still chewin' on the notion of a left hand block for right hand shooters) to Glock pistols is reasonable, but opting not to do so is reasonable as well for folks experienced with the Glock operating system.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:54   #37
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OP, if you ever find yourself on the receiving end of a ground and pound like GZ, you'll regret needing both hands to employ your weapon.

And I find it absolutely ridiculous that you plan to make your students add something to their gun that it didn't come from the factory with to pass your class. You might want to clear that with whoever signs off on making you an instructor first. They might not like the chances of liability.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:03   #38
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I agree with a few others here, Maybe a different brand and design gun would be better fitted to your thought process. For some reason all I see is you trying to pull the trigger with your right hand while you have your left pointer finger stuck behind it. LOL.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:12   #39
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And I find it absolutely ridiculous that you plan to make your students add something to their gun that it didn't come from the factory with to pass your class. You might want to clear that with whoever signs off on making you an instructor first. They might not like the chances of liability.
Glocks come from the factory with an owner's manual that advises carrying with an chamber empty. I wonder what liability might accompany teaching students to carry the pistol in a manner contrary to the manufacturer's operating instructions.

Firearms instruction is tricky business, from a liability standpoint. Adhering to strict tenets of safety must be key among the instructor's responsibilities.

I don't know how teaching with an aftermarket safety device fits into the scheme of responsible teaching practices. Seems it would be ok unless the device is generally thought to add more risk than safety value.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:46   #40
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Glocks come from the factory with an owner's manual that advises carrying with an chamber empty. I wonder what liability might accompany teaching students to carry the pistol in a manner contrary to the manufacturer's operating instructions.

Firearms instruction is tricky business, from a liability standpoint. Adhering to strict tenets of safety must be key among the instructor's responsibilities.

I don't know how teaching with an aftermarket safety device fits into the scheme of responsible teaching practices. Seems it would be ok unless the device is generally thought to add more risk than safety value.
I can completely understand an instructor limiting the type of equipment allowed in class to limit liability (i.e. no glocks or no serpas) but I can't imagine an instructor (by himself, not the entire group) requiring the addition of an aftermarket product to a firearm to complete class. He would be telling his class that he knows better than Glock about pistol safety. And planting insecurity in the minds of his students.
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