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Old 07-05-2013, 08:30   #76
Kevin108
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HOA supporters are like Democrats and want a governing body to control every aspect of what a person can do with their own property. Don't forget they'll require a substantial payment for the services they claim to provide. After all, it's for the "common good" of the neighborhood.

Those who don't support HOAs are like Libertarians and want every neighbor to do with their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't come into another's yard or cause a danger.

Those from a HOA neighborhood exclaim, "What about the common areas, like the sign and flower bed at the front of the neighborhood?"

"Simple," say the non-HOA neighbors, "In the spring Mr. Charlie and Ms. Carol paint the sign and redo the flower bed. Anytime we see Mr. Bradshaw cutting the grass around the sign, someone offers him a glass of sweet tea or a cold beer. We just take care of things ourselves!"
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:08   #77
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HOA supporters are like Democrats and want a governing body to control every aspect of what a person can do with their own property. Don't forget they'll require a substantial payment for the services they claim to provide. After all, it's for the "common good" of the neighborhood.

Those who don't support HOAs are like Libertarians and want every neighbor to do with their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't come into another's yard or cause a danger.

Those from a HOA neighborhood exclaim, "What about the common areas, like the sign and flower bed at the front of the neighborhood?"

"Simple," say the non-HOA neighbors, "In the spring Mr. Charlie and Ms. Carol paint the sign and redo the flower bed. Anytime we see Mr. Bradshaw cutting the grass around the sign, someone offers him a glass of sweet tea or a cold beer. We just take care of things ourselves!"
If only life were as simple as your coloring book simple scenario. News Flash: it isn't.
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:41   #78
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I live in a gated, country-HOA where everyone has 1-3 acres, wooded lots and access to the river and I have to admit it's pretty idyllic..and the HOA doesn't bother me..

Dues are $350/yr..which pay for gate, security system, mowing of common areas and road maintenance..

The only negatives for me (things that I might do or want to do) are that I can't park a boat in my yard or camper trailer for longer than 14 days at a stretch (exceptions for visiting family allowed on a case by case)..but I don't have one, and don't want one right now so it's kind of a moot point.

Only 4' black wrought iron (see-through) fences are allowed so the deer, turkey and fox can wander freely through the properties which they do, (these fences are expensive compared to a plank fence) but most don't have any fences and have invisible electric fences for their dogs. These seem to work well..

The rules say you can't have any trailers parked in the yard (utility or boat for example) but I bet 75% of the homeowners have a utility trailer parked/hidden back in the trees at the back of their property..I do..

If I choose to put up a shed or outbuilding it has to be 75% bricked/rocked and roof to match the house..that's a little of a negative because a simple metal shop is pretty cheap, but you start adding brick and shingle roof and it adds up quick.

That said, I've been told the HOA really has no "teeth" or money in the coffer to act against or take legal action/sanctions against a homeowner and some people do bend the rules (my neighbor with his boat for example).. I think in good faith everyone just tries to be a good neighbor and if you get "called upon" by the HOA, it's just a friendly-reminder type calling.

What I do like about the HOA is the pristine, clean and safe neighborhood.. The price of homes ($300K - $1 million), remote location, heavy duty gate, camera systems and spike strips keep the riff raff (potential homeowners as well as opportunistic burglars etc..) out.

It is the kind of place where you really can tell your kids to go play and come home when the sun goes down..and we do.

Another cool thing is we only have 35 houses, 3 empty lots left and no room for any more expansion. We all receive an excel spreadsheet with a list of all the homeowners, names, email addresses and home and cell#'s.. I thought this was intrusive at first, but I actually like it.. Unlike most neighborhoods, we REALLY know our neighbors, and have spring and fall "block parties", easter egg hunts etc.. within the neighborhood..and walk around and visit with each other like the good old days.

The HOA is not intrusive, doesn't care about your garage door being open, don't bother you with what you plant in your yard, don't bug you about your grass, how many cars you park or where, or really give you any grief about anything.

My only interaction with them is when I got a visit from a little old lady (HOA President's wife) who nicely reminded me there is no burning of brush piles in the neighborhood for fire reasons (which I was doing at the time, and I knew I was breaking the rules). The neighborhood is in a thick oak and cedar forest and in the past 15 years, there have been two houses burn down, which is why they're skittish about fires.

All in all...I like an HOA.

In my opinion, there are just too many crappy people out there that will fill up their yards with junk cars and garbage, have 15 dogs that bark all night and chickens that crow all morning and just make a nuisance of themselves to their neighbors.

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Old 07-05-2013, 10:59   #79
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It is interesting that in some locales neighbors would eagerly fill up their front yards with rusted out cars, leave big piles of trash and paint their houses bright pink without some kind of organized outside legal restraint stopping them. People are funny.

In my current digs there are too many retired guys around me whose hobby is mowing their lawn in perfect stripes twice a week and edging every other week to get away with anything. They aren't shy about offering you "tips" on lawn care or home maintenance, or the use of an edger if they think your lawn is approaching getting out of spec.

Like I said, all of the places where I've owned have followed the peer pressure model but I guess if neighbors really are prone to "let it all hang out" where you live, some kind of standard might be in order, or moving to another neighborhood. Maybe this apparent propensity for the owners to reduce their property to squalor is more regional thus the seeming greater popularity or prevalence of HOAs in some areas.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:10   #80
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I never thought I would support living in an HOA community until I watched several once nice communities, one of them being mine, degrade over time. What was once a group of people who took immense pride in their new homes slowly changed over time. The majority still care just as much about their homes but unfortunately there are enough who don't which drag everything down. Some long term residents avoid needed maintenance and junked things up over time. It really became a problem is when the rental homes popped up.

I don't know if I would live in another subdivision that did not have enforceable standards. I really enjoyed my neighborhood when it was full of like minded people, now that it is not I am ready to move on when I can.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:42   #81
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Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
If only life were as simple as your coloring book simple scenario. News Flash: it isn't.
I've seen it just like I described. The story I told at the end is how the neighborhood I grew up in was...and still is. Even the neighbors that don't like each other would still work together to keep up a common area or an ill neighbor's yard. Oddly enough, that's how my neighborhood is as well. Maybe you're the neighbor nobody else likes?
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:41   #82
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We don't have an HOA, but there are a few basic deed restrictions. Not a fan of those either, but it could be worse. Am buying a .22 suppressor to get around the "no shooting" crap.
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Old 07-05-2013, 13:12   #83
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Live in one and love it personally. I like the fact that my neighbor can't have weeds 10 foot tall, or park cars in the yard, or let his house go to ****. You know, or should know going into it. If you don't like it, don't buy into the hood. I go in neighborhoods without it and think to myself this place would be a lot more appealing if they had one.
To each his own...
this +1,000,000

I mean, if you don't like HOA's, don't live in a place with one.

Where I live we have one and it has helped tremendously for the harmony of the arquitectural style, excellent maintenance of parks and security. That has resulted in great added value of the properties.


ETA: I just read the 4 pages of this post and while I'm in favor of MY HOA, some HOA's depicted here are worst than Auschwitz.
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Old 07-05-2013, 13:18   #84
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The original intent of an HOA has some positives. However, most associations go far beyond that.

I bring a little bit of a different perspective. I lived in a condo complex with an HOA for several years. As a general rule, I'm a pretty libertarian person. You stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours. I do believe in being a good citizen / neighbor and contributing to the community. Due to the 'burden of reliability' as I call it (if you show up, you end up in charge), I was eventually elected as the HOA President. It was not something I sought or wanted any part of, but friends and neighbors chose me so I agreed to do my part. It was a miserable year.

Neighbor fought neighbor. I tried to help resolve things peacefully, but ended up just telling both parties that despite their immaturity, they are adults and shouldn't need an association to mediate their differences.

People wanted new bylaws passed to regulate every aspect of life. I tried to resist this. Sometimes it was proposed that something would be passed which I knew would have very negative results for the complex. Not just socially, but even affecting property values. I made my case, but the residents would still vote for these crap changes (sounds rather like the U.S. government, eh?) and I would be tasked with carrying out policies that I knew were a bad idea.

These same residents who wanted new rules or bylaws passed would ignore existing bylaws themselves.

Eventually, I moved. One of my criteria for choosing a new home was no HOA. Never again.

I found it difficult to find an "unregulated" neighborhood since most new developments have an HOA attached.

Ended up finding a great neighborhood with awesome neighbors and no association. People are kind, responsible, help each other out and stay out of each others' business.
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Old 07-05-2013, 13:19   #85
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HOA supporters are like Democrats and want a governing body to control every aspect ...
You threw your post to the trash just about there. Have you heard about the word UTOPIA?
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Old 07-05-2013, 13:21   #86
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Could some of the guys that are anti HOA give me a few things you do on/to your home that would not be permitted if you had a HOA?
I don't personally have an opinion. But a buddy of mine in Iowa wanted to buy a third vehicle but couldn't because per HOA rules, he couldn't regularly leave a vehicle parked in his driveway overnight, and he was also not allowed to have a garage larger than a 2-car garage. He explored an electric lift for the garage for parking a 3rd car, but I don't know what came of it. In either event, this situation would have left me extremely bitter with HOA if I were in his shoes. There's nothing wrong with having rules, but some seem overreaching and rediculous.
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Old 07-05-2013, 16:30   #87
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I don't personally have an opinion. But a buddy of mine in Iowa wanted to buy a third vehicle but couldn't because per HOA rules, he couldn't regularly leave a vehicle parked in his driveway overnight, and he was also not allowed to have a garage larger than a 2-car garage. He explored an electric lift for the garage for parking a 3rd car, but I don't know what came of it. In either event, this situation would have left me extremely bitter with HOA if I were in his shoes. There's nothing wrong with having rules, but some seem overreaching and rediculous.
I am basically pro HOA - but I would never move into one that had this type of restriction.

My HOA restricts "work trucks" bigger than a pick up truck.

I know of a guy that drove an 18 wheeler that proclaimed since he was a VET and he had fought for this country - he had the right to park his truck on his property if he wanted.

He lost - he moved -

Some may think he had a right to park his truck / trailer on his driveway, blocking the sidewalk and sticking 3 feet into the street - but his neighbors got tired of looking at it so they complained.

The guy that lived down the street from me also drove an 18 wheeler - he would be gone for a month - then home for a week - he parked the tractor (no trailer) up in his driveway almost out of sight - and no one really cared.

The reasonable thing to do would be read the HOA rules - if you can't live with them don't move into one.

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Old 07-05-2013, 22:00   #88
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The reasonable thing to do would be read the HOA rules - if you can't live with them don't move into one.
I agree. But it sucks when your wants and needs change and HOA gets in the way. My buddy didn't mind the HOA rule when he only had and only wanted two cars. His wants changed and then were shot down.

I can appreciate why some people like HOA, but me personally, I'd rather not have any neighbor close enough to me to worry about my property affecting his in any way.
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Old 07-05-2013, 22:35   #89
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Could some of the guys that are anti HOA give me a few things you do on/to your home that would not be permitted if you had a HOA?
Well....

I've got two trucks out back. One is in a carport, no motor, trans, front end or doors on it. Hasn't been tagged or insured in three or four years. Bunch of spare parts by it to btw.

The other truck is complete and has sat in the back yard for almost three years not tagged or insured, recently started getting this one running.

There's been times I have not mowed in two weeks due to a broken mower.

I will work in the driveway and change oil or do brakes. I've left vehicles on jack stands over night.

In my above post I said I've had wrecked trucks in the yard, I also enjoy a cold one outside, burning a smoke and pissing on my tree.

Doubt I could do any of those with an HOA.
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Old 07-05-2013, 23:19   #90
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I've seen it just like I described. The story I told at the end is how the neighborhood I grew up in was...and still is. Even the neighbors that don't like each other would still work together to keep up a common area or an ill neighbor's yard. Oddly enough, that's how my neighborhood is as well. Maybe you're the neighbor nobody else likes?
The problem really is with the degradation of morals and values in society.

If you live around people that are still decent, conservative folks, then you don't need an HOA.

If you live around trash, then you need an HOA.

I live in Prescott Valley, AZ. There are subdivisions which are all HOA-controlled and the property values there are higher.

I live in a nice, newer 5-bedroom home in a decent neighborhood with 2 good neighbors and 2 white trash neighbors.

The rest of the houses on the street are well-kept and nice.

The neighbors next to me are white trash fat-***** Mormons that have 9 kids and bikes and garbage everywhere and had a giant old RV in the front yard.

The neighbors across the street from them were meth heads and have disappeared some months ago and left their fairly nice home to decay. The yard is going back to nature and there is garbage all over the back and sides.

On the plus side, the Mormons took the opportunity to park their crappy RV in the meth heads abandoned driveway...

When I bought my home 4 years ago, all the houses were well-kept and decent...

Now, I'm moving to Idaho and buying a home in a little town called Genesee. No HOA but one is not needed. I've lived there 10 years ago and have never found a friendlier, cleaner, more charming little town.

My brother is a sheriff's deputy in the area and he knows every little town in the county and he says Genesee is still the only one that isn't taken over by white trash.

You don't need an HOA if you live in an area with good people.

HOAs are simply a product of a society that is increasingly selfish, immoral, and ignorant...
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Old 07-06-2013, 00:22   #91
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Not interested in messing with a HOA. Something about paying for the privilege of letting someone else dictate how I maintain my property just rubs me the wrong way.


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Old 07-06-2013, 01:16   #92
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No, inside is mine to do with as I wish. Only the outside structure and landscaping fall under their watchful eyes.
There should be inside inspections. If you are running a meth lab, or illegal grow operation, it could hurt my property value.
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:19   #93
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Wasn't to long ago people cherished liberty
Can you see any of these folks fighting a revolution? They like things like an HOA, but when .gov takes the next logical step controlling every aspect of their lives, telling them what they can eat or drink, they get all bent out of shape.
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:52   #94
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Old 07-06-2013, 03:20   #95
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You threw your post to the trash just about there. Have you heard about the word UTOPIA?
I know the word. What is your point?
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:35   #96
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I don't personally have an opinion. But a buddy of mine in Iowa wanted to buy a third vehicle but couldn't because per HOA rules, he couldn't regularly leave a vehicle parked in his driveway overnight, and he was also not allowed to have a garage larger than a 2-car garage. He explored an electric lift for the garage for parking a 3rd car, but I don't know what came of it. In either event, this situation would have left me extremely bitter with HOA if I were in his shoes. There's nothing wrong with having rules, but some seem overreaching and rediculous.
This is actually a good point in favor of an HOA. I personally don't want vehicles in people's driveways. Typically, the car sitting outside is the crappiest one. A rusty 92 Camry sitting in a driveway ain't that pretty.....
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Well....

I've got two trucks out back. One is in a carport, no motor, trans, front end or doors on it. Hasn't been tagged or insured in three or four years. Bunch of spare parts by it to btw.

The other truck is complete and has sat in the back yard for almost three years not tagged or insured, recently started getting this one running.

There's been times I have not mowed in two weeks due to a broken mower.

I will work in the driveway and change oil or do brakes. I've left vehicles on jack stands over night.

In my above post I said I've had wrecked trucks in the yard, I also enjoy a cold one outside, burning a smoke and pissing on my tree.

Doubt I could do any of those with an HOA.
No, you couldn't do these things. I like working on cars and restoring cars too, but having vehicles in the yard detracts from the whole neighborhood. Especially vehicles in a state of disassembly. So, an HOA stops that. But so long as you are not in an HOA, do whatever you please, it's your property!

It's just a way to keep your neighbors activities in conformity to the typical social standards of the neighborhood. Which keeps everything looking pretty and values up. That's the whole point at the end of the day.

If I lived in the country, I'd have a big pole barn, a bunch of animals, and a shooting range! Maybe a bunch of cars too. But I don't have that option right now.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:19   #97
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Well....

I've got two trucks out back. One is in a carport, no motor, trans, front end or doors on it. Hasn't been tagged or insured in three or four years. Bunch of spare parts by it to btw.

The other truck is complete and has sat in the back yard for almost three years not tagged or insured, recently started getting this one running.

There's been times I have not mowed in two weeks due to a broken mower.

I will work in the driveway and change oil or do brakes. I've left vehicles on jack stands over night.

In my above post I said I've had wrecked trucks in the yard, I also enjoy a cold one outside, burning a smoke and pissing on my tree.

Doubt I could do any of those with an HOA.
A few homeowners (me included) do minor auto repairs - no big deal - doing a frame off restoration - in the driveway would be frowned on.

Most people that live in a residential area don't want junk cars in plain view.

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Old 07-06-2013, 07:12   #98
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There should be inside inspections. If you are running a meth lab, or illegal grow operation, it could hurt my property value.
I know you are cracking-wise but in my old neighborhood just north of here a guy bought a house with cash ~$500K and immediately began cooking meth, selling heroine and running guns (didn't know that 'til much later). One of the neighbors said she could smell a foul urine/ammonia smell (later proved to be DMEA - how he got a hold of that stuff I'll never know/it smells like chemical horse wizz).

Using the HOA and a bunch of concerned neighbors we were able to:

1. Run that guy off in just a few days. In coordinated fashion men from the neighborhood would take thousands of pics of that guy/his house/everyone who came and went and other pressures. Before anyone starts squealing LEOs told us officially the smell of DMEA wasn't enough to storm the home - off the record they told us the guy was cooking for sure and that we had broad purview to drive the guy away.

2. The HOA bought the house, stripped it to the studs, remediated it fully and sold it with full disclosure at par after insurance.

Eventually, the cops would have shut this guy down. But who knows what kind of mayhem he would have caused beforehand.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:24   #99
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People who hate HOAs are the same ilk that buy next to an airport then complain about the noise. HH
The flip side of this is that people who like HOAs are the same type that buy a house in a subdivision that borders (or has been stuck in the middle of) a rural area and then complain about smells, gun shots, and call animal control on their rural neighbors. This is a big deal on the outskirts of rural America where the 'ex-urbs' (sp?) are encroaching. It's the mindset that goes with the HOA. A few stories just from this year alone:

- Suburbanite transplant (S.T.) calls animal control stating that neighbor has blindfolded all their horses. Freakin' fly masks...

- ST calls animal control complaining cows next door are too skinny (owner of cows is president of local cattlemen's assoc)

- ST calls animal control regarding conditions of rabbits next door (owner/breeder is president of state's rabbit breeder's assoc)

- ST calls the EPA (yes, the EPA) because farmer next door has just spread his field with stinky chicken poop.

List goes on. This is the mindset that appears to go along with suburbanite HOA dwellers. Which is fine until they start spreading out and bringing that mindset where it doesn't belong.

I suppose HOAs are fine for those who choose to live the suburban dream. But for God's sake, please keep them and, more importantly, the mindset that goes with them, out of rural America.
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:13   #100
WarCry
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Reading some of the comments here, it's amazing that it's never dawned on me how much living in a HOA has in common with living in a trailer park:

You buy your home, but (along with regular taxes) you have to pay rent to live there. Someone else gets to tell you what you can and can't do on the property that you've paid for (or are paying for, in the form of a mortgage) AND you actually give them money to dictate these rules to you. In addition to the mortgage and the rent (lot fees or HOA dues, whatever), you also pay even more money if you don't follow the rules that you're paying someone else to enforce on you.

Man, so folks just like to give their money away, don't they!


If I'm going to plop down 6 figures (or 5, or 7, whatever) for a piece of property, I'm not going to sign any contract that lets people tell me what I can and can't do on it. Yeah, there are going to be legal restrictions - that's just the world we live in - but I'll be damned if I can understand why anyone would want to voluntarily give up their rights as home/property owners and - worse! - pay someone to take those rights away.



I'll try to talk anyone I know out of getting a place with an HOA. But everyone makes their own choices. I may not understand why, but what you do is up to you....


....kinda the opposite of how HOAs feel.







*Last note: I do think there's a difference between an HOA with actual homes/properties and a condo or townhouse type of situation. But then again, I would never want to buy what amounts to an apartment, anyway, so that's a completely different topic.
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