Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-28-2013, 02:29   #1
Glock3819
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 217
185gr or 230gr hollow point for glock 30s

Both being +p. Which would recommend for CCW?
__________________
Glock 32 Gen 4
Glock 30s Gen 3
Glock3819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 04:30   #2
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 93,290
I like to go with a lighter bullet with the shorter barrels.
__________________
.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 04:31   #3
Glock3819
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 217
185gr it is then. Thanks for the help.
__________________
Glock 32 Gen 4
Glock 30s Gen 3
Glock3819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 06:37   #4
Kichigai
気違い Was Mr30s
 
Kichigai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,061
wow that was a quick decision how does he even know that the person responding even has a clue
Kichigai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 06:38   #5
ray glock
Senior Member
 
ray glock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,687
200 gr.....
__________________
"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." PSALM 119;105
ray glock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 07:06   #6
clarkz71
Senior Member
 
clarkz71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,608
I like the 185gr as well, either will do the job.
__________________
Quote:
Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
.
G23 gen3 .40/.357 Sig
Florida Glocker #1923
clarkz71 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 07:23   #7
Arnold Kuhl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 1,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
I like to go with a lighter bullet with the shorter barrels.
My question also. Have a new G30SF, CCWing, rotating with SIG239. Ballistically, why would a lighter bullet be more effective in a short bbl?

I was thinking of getting the highly-touted Federal HST, but not sure if it comes in other bullet weights besides 230gr? And if it does come in the 185gr., which is better?

Advice appreciated. Opinions on HST, Hornady Critical Defense, etc. welcomed.

AK
Arnold Kuhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 07:39   #8
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,221
This has been debated for decades, if not centuries.

One way of looking at it is measuring the kinetic energy transferred to the target which is k = 1/2 * m * (v * v) - "one half m v squared"

To actually work out the numbers, you need to get consistent units and all that stuff. It's not important, pick numbers like m=1 and v=1.

Consider what happens when you double bullet mass - the kinetic energy increases by a factor of two: k for (m=1, v=1) => 1/2, k for (m=2, v=1) => 1. k has doubled from 1/2 to 1.

Now consider what happens when you double velocity - the kinetic energy increases by a factor of four (v squared): k for (m=1, v=1) => 1/2, k for (m=1, v=2) = 2. k has quadrupled from 1/2 to 2.

You get more kinetic energy from light fast bullets than you do from slow heavy bullets.

These days everybody is excited about ballistic gelatin. They want to measure bullet expansion and penetration. This is probably the most useful way to test ammunition because it points out that a very fast 9mm FMJ will completely penetrate the target, doing little damage on the way through, and still have enough energy to ricochet and injure bystandards. Just ask NYPD! Moving to FMJ from JHP is a mistake!

Then there is the problem that short barrel weapons don't achieve as much velocity. So, Speer comes out with SD rounds specifically designed for short barrels. They just have to use a powder with a faster burn rate.

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

Just for comparison using my guns and my chronograph:

Hornady .45 ACP 185 gr Critical Defense JHP
Glock G21SF (4.6" barrel) 1008 fps average
Glock G36 (3.78" barrel) 929 fps average

A 15% decrease in kinetic energy for less than a 1" decrease in barrel length!

I use either the 185 gr Critical Defense or the 230 gr Gold Dot and I figure either one will do a lot of damage. It really comes down to what I can get, not what I want!

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin

Last edited by F106 Fan; 06-28-2013 at 07:44..
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 07:46   #9
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,221
It is probably worth looking at the various YouTube gelatin tests before making a decision on ammo. You never know when you will be attacked by a block of Jello!

Then there are the FBI tests which try to include the effects of clothing and bones.

Or, buy what they have on the shelf!

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 07:49   #10
Arnold Kuhl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 1,119
Richard, do you have any info, like ballistic gel test data, for the Federal HST? Everybody's talking about this load. Haven't found any here yet. But when I do, I'll bet it'll be about $30 for 20 rounds. Hornady Critical Defense is around $28 for 20 rounds, last time I saw it. Just outrageous! I guess what I'm wondering is: is this stuff really worth the money? Maybe my Hornady HP/XTP reloads are just as good for HD/SD.

AK
Arnold Kuhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 07:55   #11
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Kuhl View Post
Ballistically, why would a lighter bullet be more effective in a short bbl?
Speer Gold Dot Personal Protection (PP) Short Barrel (SB) .45 ACP comes in 230 gr only whereas Gold Dot PP comes in both 185 gr and 230 gr.

It could be a marketing thing or it just may be easier to get adequate velocity with a heavier bullet.

My guess is that the bullet isn't in the barrel long enough to accelerate to higher velocities so the tradeoff is to use a slower, heavier, bullet.

Speer 230 gr GDHP PP SB .45 ACP -> 820 fps

Speer 230 gr GDHP PP -> 890 fps
Speer 185 gr GDHP PP -> 1050 fps

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin

Last edited by F106 Fan; 06-28-2013 at 08:05..
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 07:57   #12
ray glock
Senior Member
 
ray glock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,687
My best advice would be to use whichever your particular gun shoots best. If it is accurate and functions well then you are good to go. Most of my guns like certain loads much better than others. Some guns shoot most everything equally well. My first concern is always accuracy and function over how the bullet acts when it hits the target.

I like 200 gr. but I use 185gr. and 230gr. often in various pistols depending on which gun I am shooting and what I want to accomplish.

You want be satisfied until you do some experimenting on your own.
__________________
"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." PSALM 119;105
ray glock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 08:03   #13
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Kuhl View Post
Richard, do you have any info, like ballistic gel test data, for the Federal HST? Everybody's talking about this load. Haven't found any here yet. But when I do, I'll bet it'll be about $30 for 20 rounds. Hornady Critical Defense is around $28 for 20 rounds, last time I saw it. Just outrageous! I guess what I'm wondering is: is this stuff really worth the money? Maybe my Hornady HP/XTP reloads are just as good for HD/SD.

AK
I don't have anything like that. I would look at YouTube for video and see what's out there. For a first approximation, I want to know bullet weight and muzzle velocity. I also want to know what barrel length they used for the test. I don't care how fast the bullet is out of a 36" barrel!

All ammo is outrageous at the moment. Who cares? It's not like I'm going to buy more than a couple of boxes. We have a bunch of Ranger and Ranger T ammo for the .40s so we're in pretty good shape. The .45s are loaded with Speer, Hornady, Remington and even some old Black Talon. We're good...

I have always figured that a large hole, well placed, makes up for a loss of technology. Hits count!

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin

Last edited by F106 Fan; 06-28-2013 at 08:04..
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 08:30   #14
SD Handgunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NE South Dakota
Posts: 141
I did some chronographing a week ago with both a Model 21SF and a Model 30SF. I ran 3 brands & types of ammo through both guns.

First up was a Glock Model 30SF (3.78" Barrel.

Remington 185gr. +P Jacketed Hollow Points
1st - 1064
2nd - 1088
3rd - 1075
4th - 1068
5th - 1071
Average 1073
Extreme Spread 24
Standard Deviation 5.74

CCI Blazer 200gr. Jacketed Hollow Points
1st - 912.1
2nd - 934.1
3rd - 934.1
4th - 938.4
5th - 926.4
Average 929
Extreme Spread 21.9
Standard Devation 6.25

Federal 230gr. Jacketed Hollow Point
1st - 798.8
2nd - 802.1
3rd - 817.9
4th - 801.6
5th - 807.4
Average 806
Extreme Spread 19.1
Standard Deviation 5.37

Next up was a Glock Model 21SF 4.6" Barrel

Remington 185gr. +P Jacketed Hollow Points
1st - 1122
2nd - 1114
3rd - 1114
4th - 1123
5th - 1128
Average 1120
Extreme Spread 14
Standard Deviation 5

CCI Blazer 200gr. Jacketed Hollow Points
1st - 974.3
2nd - 977.7
3rd - 995.9
4th - 970.5
5th - 970.5
Average 978
Extreme Spread 25.4
Standard Deviation 6.07

Federal 230gr. Jacketed Hollow Point
1st - 853.3
2nd - 840.7
3rd - 849.9
4th - 864.9
5th - 829.9
Average 848
Extreme Spread 35
Standard Deviation 7.04

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp

The data at the above link is fairly old but should give you a bit of an idea of how some of the bullets-n-loads compare to each other both in standard and short barrels.

As for me, I carry the CCI 200gr. Jacketed Hollow Points in my Glock Model 30SF where as in the Glock Model 21SF I carry what the town issues me the Federal 230gr. Jacketed Hollow Points.

Larry

PS comparing the average velocities I obtained the average muzzle velocity difference between the Glock Model 30SF and the Glock Model 21SF ranged from 42 FPS to 49 FPS with the 3 brands & types of ammo I actually chronographed.

Last edited by SD Handgunner; 06-28-2013 at 08:31..
SD Handgunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 08:40   #15
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,221
Well, "one-stop-shot" first requires a solid hit. I wouldn't spend a lot of time with the percentages without knowing a lot more about the hits. Bullets with similar expansion and penetration have different percentages and one way to account for this a poor shot placement in some cases.

Here's an interesting article that describes various ways of looking at ammo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 08:48   #16
D-Ric902
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 181
I go with what shoots better in mine
185 grain shoot all right but not to point of aim
230 grain are right on top of the front sight
D-Ric902 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 08:54   #17
Glock3819
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 217
I plan on using underwood ammunition. Anyone have any information on how the 185gr shoots?
__________________
Glock 32 Gen 4
Glock 30s Gen 3
Glock3819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 02:07   #18
Glock 23 Nutter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr30s View Post
wow that was a quick decision how does he even know that the person responding even has a clue
Yeah, good thing he didn't recommend Litter-box left-overs.

To the OP's Question:

The 230 gr. +P Federal HST out of the G30/36 3.78" Bbl. has the some velocity as the std. pressure 230 gr. HST out of a 4.6" G21.

So it will performs like this.


And that is why I run them as my G36 SD load.


Beware, the Tarantula.




Nutter
Glock 23 Nutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 03:28   #19
glockman99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Hoquiam, WA USA
Posts: 2,820
Speer 230 grain Gold Dot...That's the one I bet MY life on.
glockman99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 05:11   #20
4949shooter
Senior Member
 
4949shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 13,095


Ther Speer Gold Dot "short barrel" ammunition has a modified hollowpoint design:

__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
4949shooter is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 17:58.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,290
362 Members
928 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31