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Old 06-30-2013, 10:35   #41
PhotoFeller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
Trying to stuff 8 rounds into a box magazine designed to hold 7 rounds, AND fit flush in a Colt Gov Model, means you've got to compromise somewhere. It's often the spring, and/or the follower. Don't you think JMB would've stuffed more rounds in his mag if he thought he could do so and make it run as reliably as desired?

Now, personally, I'd like to see someone design an 8-rd 1911 mag that would run as well as the 8-rd 4506/66 mags that S&W presently uses ... but they worked at it for some years before they got it as close to perfect as we can probably expect. (While it's really more of a gimmick, it's sometimes funny to see the expression on a 1911 owner's face when you load a 4566 mag with empty cases, and then run the slide by hand, flawlessly feeding all of them. ... followed by

Of course, the feed angle/departure in the S&W mag is different than that of the 1911 (or else S&W wouldn't have to be using commercial 1911 mags in the SW1911's ), and the 4506/66 8-rd mag was designed with a mag box long enough to contain 8 rounds with a suitably strong spring.

I really wish S&W engineers would try their hand at designing an 8-rd 1911 mag. Why not? Just about everyone else has tried, right?

I remember having a discussion with the good folks at Tripp Research a few years ago. I was ordering some mags for T&E at the time. The gentleman asked me which 1911 I was going to be using them in, which naturally made me ask why he'd ask.

He said the metal support in the mag catch area of their followers could vary, if necessary, and they did that so they could get their mags to run in the assorted production 1911's everybody was making. He explained that not everyone may be putting the mag catch cut at the same exact spot, as there wasn't a "standard" set of blueprints being used. No kidding, huh?

So, if I any problems I thought might be related to the seating & lock up of the mag, I could call and they'd send me a follower with a different spec metal insert.

He also told me they were just getting ready to change vendors for their mag bodies, and the new ones would have what they felt were even better tolerances.

Well, the mags ran just fine, and I gave one of them away to guy who couldn't get a couple of other make/model mags to feed JHP's in his "project Commander". The Tripp mag solved his feeding problem.
Good post. Thanks. It sounds like the variability is as much (or more) in the pistols as the mags.
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Old 06-30-2013, 11:16   #42
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I don't assume or expect anything in this day and age. Sad times.


I do: I assume and expect that there will be approx. 20 or so threads here in the next month repeating the same BS, e.g., "what's good for killin' Griz?", "what's the best manstopper?", or another of the never ending "10mm vs. .357 SIG" threads.

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Old 06-30-2013, 11:36   #43
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Ok, I read #5. Its a good post, but it doesn't touch on my query about why adding 1 round of capacity makes a difference, in technical terms, in reliability. I was hoping for an explanation like: 'for 1911 pistols, the spring strength requirement for 7 rounds of .45acp is perfectly proportional to the standard magazine length x pi. Adding magazine length to accommodate an 8th round introduces a variable that makes spring strength difficult to compute for consistent feed reliability'.

Maybe the explanation is more magic than science.
I have been very lucky shooting NMC with some guys that really know their 1911 and how to drive them. the answer was never magic even though finding the answer sometime takes a magician
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:11   #44
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Ok, I read #5. Its a good post, but it doesn't touch on my query about why adding 1 round of capacity makes a difference, in technical terms, in reliability. I was hoping for an explanation like: 'for 1911 pistols, the spring strength requirement for 7 rounds of .45acp is perfectly proportional to the standard magazine length x pi. Adding magazine length to accommodate an 8th round introduces a variable that makes spring strength difficult to compute for consistent feed reliability'.

Maybe the explanation is more magic than science.
Hmm, it seems as though you already had a good explanation worked out. If you knew this already what was your point?
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:50   #45
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I wonder if Cuomo knew 8 rounders jam, so really he was just trying to help us out with the 7 round law.

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Old 06-30-2013, 13:36   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Ok, I read #5. Its a good post, but it doesn't touch on my query about why adding 1 round of capacity makes a difference, in technical terms, in reliability. I was hoping for an explanation like: 'for 1911 pistols, the spring strength requirement for 7 rounds of .45acp is perfectly proportional to the standard magazine length x pi. Adding magazine length to accommodate an 8th round introduces a variable that makes spring strength difficult to compute for consistent feed reliability'.

Maybe the explanation is more magic than science.



Amigo, it is like i said in one my post on here some where above... Quite simply, most 8rd mags just do not have the relibale spring strength for me to trust my life to. I have a Sig P220, that happens to have "very stout springs", and a good follower and feed lips," and I have shot and shot and shot this gun, with NO failures of any kind, SO when I do carry it, I am confident.

BUT....My long time experience with M1911's has been to stick with the proven, tried and true, 7 rd mags for realiability sake 'for carry..'

Most 8 rd mags simply just do not have a good enough spring tension. Yes, there are a few who work. But I just can't, in the M1911, trust my life 'competely' to an 8 rd mag in a M1911 over a 7rd mag, that I just never have had issue with to be honest, except for spring change out time due to thousands of rds being fired.


That is really all I can add. Fastbolt said the same thing, perhaps in a different way, but said it well...




Good shooting.






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Old 06-30-2013, 14:02   #47
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For all you old boys who just "got to stuff more 45's in those mags," Here ya go ! HaHa..

Caliber Corner

Caliber Corner

Caliber Corner


And for you shot gunner's who need more than two !!!


Caliber Corner



Now, no more worries... haha.




Enjoy !






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Old 06-30-2013, 18:06   #48
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You are very lucky to be able to make a blanket statement like that considering most of us have found large variations in reliability between different brands of eight-rounders.

I tried a few some worked, some didn't.

I'd buy lottery tickets if I were you.
Not so lucky with the Lottery. Maybe it has to do with the brand I use. All, except for one, of my perfectly functioning 8 rounders are Chip McCormick Shooting Star mags. My other one is a Kimber and it has never let me down either.
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:50   #49
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Hmm, it seems as though you already had a good explanation worked out. If you knew this already what was your point?
If I had a good explanation worked out, even I missed it!

Here is my question expressed another way: Why do 8 round aftermarket magazines for 1911s vary in reliability? I'm referring to mags where the magazine length is extended to accommodate an extra round. I'm curious because it would seem to be pretty straightforward for a gun designer with mechanical engineering skills to compute spring strength, test the result with a model of some sort, then build the extended magazine. However, many shooters experience problems with Wilsons and other brands.

This query assumed a mag could be designed to work reliably in all 1911s. That may be a key, flawed assumption. Wilson mags might work great in some brands but not be reliable in others.

My experience is pretty limited, but I did have difficulty inserting Wilson mags into my Colt; they just didn't want to seat properly. Oldtimers on the 1911 forum told me to just use force to "ram it home", but I elected to stick to Colt magazines. The same Wilson mags inserted smoothly into a Les Baer and a RIA. In my case, it seemed to be the gun specs instead of the mag design.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 07-01-2013 at 07:55..
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:10   #50
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For all you old boys who just "got to stuff more 45's in those mags," Here ya go ! HaHa..

Caliber Corner


Now, no more worries... haha.


Enjoy !



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Old 07-01-2013, 08:30   #51
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Why 7 Round Mags for 1911 Gov/Comm

The reasonably priced 8 rounders I've had very good service from are McCormick "Shooting Star" magazines. I have three Colt 1911s, two Commanders and a Govt, and these mags work perfectly with them.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:39   #52
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The reasonably priced 8 rounders I've had very good service from are McCormick "Shooting Star" magazines. I have three Colt 1911s, two Commanders and a Govt, and these mags work perfectly with them.
Starting to see a theme here...

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Old 07-01-2013, 21:10   #53
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Is there a real or perceived reliability issue with using 8 round mags in an 1911?


Not in a 1911A1 built to spec. I have exactly one 8 round Colt OEM mag for the HD 1911 and an ammo can full of 7 rounders for everyday fun.
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Old 07-01-2013, 21:33   #54
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So are you loading a Barney round with your 8 round mags make the gun 8 + 1. If you have a reload with retention ya don't have any trouble seating a 8 round magazine? the gun never chokes after the first shot on a 8 + 1 loading?

I guess you reel ok about combat reloads with 8 round magazines ??

standing on an indoor range I don't have too much trouble with 8 round mags. I do have some issues with them on a stage. right when the RO says load and make ready till my last reload is in and shooting
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Old 07-01-2013, 21:41   #55
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Shoot 8+1 all the time in competition. No worries.
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Old 07-02-2013, 21:03   #56
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All of mine work perfectly with 8 round magazines and when I carry a 1911, it is with 8 rounders.
Mine too! It's a Kimber (an old Kimber) and it came with CM 8 rd mags.
I bought 8 more CM's and they have all been flawless.

EDIT:
And yes, they're all Shooting Star mags. Not Extra power or any of the specialty mags that they offer.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:41   #57
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I used Wilson 47D 8 round mags for years. the problem I had was the 8th round would jam sometimes with hollowpoint ammo. it was like the recoil would shake the last round loose, even with new springs. semi wadcutters and ball no problem. someone here suggested a 7 round mag kit for my 8 round 47D mag from a company I never heard of but everyone else has, Tripp Research I believe. no problems after that.
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:58   #58
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I test fired some Speer Gold Dot 230 grain through my Colt Combat XSE Commander yesterday. Interestingly enough, it would not feed fired with the Wilson #47D magazine. I switched over to a Colt (Checkmate) mag I had done up with a Wilson follower and it worked great.
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Old 07-05-2013, 14:20   #59
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I carry & shoot several diff 1911s. They all run 100% w/ good 8rd mags; Wilson, Tripp or CMPM, all work great. I haven't used a 7rd mag for decades. In Kommifornia, 8+1 or 10+1, not a whole lot diff.
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Old 07-05-2013, 14:37   #60
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I have been using Wilson 8-round M1911 magazines since 1988 with absolutely NO problems.
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