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Old 06-26-2013, 09:12   #26
M&P15T
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Originally Posted by G36's Rule View Post
It isn't debatable at all. History is fact. Evangelical conservatives that vote, win. When they stay home, Repubs lose.

You can't get away from facts or math. You can never gain enough gays or blacks to make up for snubbing the religious right.
This is all debatable. Nothing can be proven until Constitutional conservatism is given a chance. Up until now conservatism has been completely entangled with religious views.....it's time to try something different.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:12   #27
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A sad day for America. At least CA has it right.
Yeah.....not so much. Prop 8 was shot down by the state government, and was just shot down about by the Supreme Court. That doesn't sound like they were "right" to me....
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:15   #28
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Live and let live.
Frankly, its not my preference, but how someone else chooses to live their life, who they love is frankly none of my business.
This is simply not an important issue for the country to be consuming so much energy.
No one is being forced to do anything they dont want to do.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:19   #29
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Now can citizen of anti-gun states and cities apply the Equal Protection clause for 2A rights?

"Privilege and immunities" and all that?
Well, yes. Do you know of any states which bar gays, women, minorities, or the elderly from owning guns? I don't.

Thats the great thing about the equal protections clause. It protects people from being discriminated against as best we can. Its one of the most American parts of the constitution.

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Seems that clause does nothing but give more power to the central government and take power away from the state. How unusual
Disregarding the fact that DOMA was a federal law, the states don't have the power to defy the constitution. Some things are supposed to be enforced at the federal level. Now if only our second amendment could get this kind of respect, we'd really be on the right track. Don't you agree?
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:22   #30
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This is all debatable. Nothing can be proven until Constitutional conservatism is given a chance.
Hardline Republicans will vote Red. Hardline Democrats will vote blue. All the time. They have no independent thought-process. They just vote party line. The moderates will be swung by the perceived quality of the candidate and their stances on the issues. Those are the ones people campaign to.

I think a constitutional conservative could grab moderates on both sides of the fence. Mostly because religious conservatives turn most of us off. I know the moderates I've spoken to on both sides of the political spectrum have detested the Republicans' choice for president the last 2 elections, and we won't even get into how much they dislike Obama.

The answer isn't to go more extreme. The extremists already buy that crap hook-line-and-sinker every election. You won't ever lose their votes because they don't know how to vote any different. Its time to reach out to the moderates who demonstrate critical thinking skills to pick a candidate.

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Old 06-26-2013, 09:23   #31
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I think a constitutional conservative could grab moderates on both sides of the fence. Mostly because religious conservatives turn most of us off.
Damn straight.

Hey...why'd you change your post?
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:30   #32
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Just to clarify. DOMA is a federal law signed by Bill Clinton. This was ruled unconstitutional.

PROP 8 is State proposition against gay marriage which was passed through the voting process. Prop 8 was struck down by a lower court. The supreme court chose to leave that decision alone, thus paving the way for Marriage between same sex partners.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:35   #33
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Originally Posted by G36's Rule View Post
Nope, that was never said or implied. Not sure how you could get there from what was said.

If religious conservatives just go away, as was stated, then the Republicans will never have the numbers to win again. Simple math.
That I agree with.

If the Republican party suddenly adopted a position supporting gay marriage would you expect a sudden migration of religious conservatives to the democratic party?
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:51   #34
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It seems to me consensual sodomy was outlawed CONSTITUTIONALLY for the first 200 years of this country.

Abortion is also in the same boat.

I also agree let's go back to the original founding father's ideas.

What do you have to say now?

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Old 06-26-2013, 09:56   #35
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It seems to me consensual sodomy was outlawed CONSTITUTIONALLY for the first 200 years of this country.

Abortion is also in the same boat.

I also agree let's go back to the original founding father's ideas.

What do you have to say now?
Please quote the part of the Constitution/Amendments/Bill of Rights which discusses sodomy.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:57   #36
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Glad to hear it.

If religious conservatives would go away, Constitutional conservatives would have a weight off their shoulders, and could get this country righted again.
As a moderate, this rings true for me. I think both sides have extremists that are forcing the hyper-polarization of politics and society.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:58   #37
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No surprise, the Supreme Court usually does what the elites want, this has nothing to do with the constitution. I'm more and more ashamed to be an American. Oh well, I'm only passing through.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:00   #38
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Please quote the part of the Constitution/Amendments/Bill of Rights which discusses sodomy.
It was the law of the land and was never challenged by the constitution. It was illegal to commit consensual sodomy, abortion, and now come to think of it: adultery.

I agree, let's go back in time.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:03   #39
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No surprise, the Supreme Court usually does what the elites want, this has nothing to do with the constitution. I'm more and more ashamed to be an American. Oh well, I'm only passing through.
I'm only passing through on my pilgrimage like you. Jesus said he is not the prince of this world. He wasn't kidding. Satan is the prince of this evil world and it shows everyday.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:03   #40
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SCOTUS strikes down (D)Clinton anti-gay law, Reagan appointee writes majority opinion.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:03   #41
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Good.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:13   #42
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Please quote the part of the Constitution/Amendments/Bill of Rights which discusses sodomy.
It's in the section about taxes...
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:16   #43
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It was the law of the land and was never challenged by the constitution. It was illegal to commit consensual sodomy, abortion, and now come to think of it: adultery.

I agree, let's go back in time.
Yeah,

Lets go back in time where people were bought and sold as slaves. Where during the industrial revolution there were no safety standards, health benefits or fair wages, where the motto of the filthy rich was 'you don't have to work for me if you don't want to', when employees were working 12-16 hour days and dying because of hazardous working conditions.

Lets go back just 100 years where immigrants like the Irish were considered lazy and worthless (when it was society that kept them from being prosperous).

Lets go back in time and enjoy the poor health standards and forgo modern sanitation... Where buckets of effluent was tossed in the street... Because people didn't care about others who may have to walk through it, they only cared about themselves.

Yeah, progress be damned, I like being a white landowning male and having complete control over other people.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:20   #44
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I find it queer that more people aren't gay about this. I know I am.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:23   #45
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So, if we take that as a base-line, we have nothing to lose if we just forsake them and move forward under the banner of true, Constitutional conservatism.

And in doing so, leaving out the issues of abortion and marriage, many people that vote Democratic would switch to voting Republican. And most importantly, being a Republican (or conservative) would no longer have the anti-social connotation it does now, so it would grow even more, as the popular side to be on.

Conservatives just keep slitting their own throats, committing political suicide, by having on their agenda the issues of abortion and marriage. If we embrace the right to chose, if we support gay marriage, I would forsee decades of Constitutionally conservative government.
I can attest that, here in IL, the last gubernatorial race was VERY hard for me to decide. I REALLY don't like Pat Quinn, but his opponent - Bill Brady - was staunchly against same-sex marriage, to the point that his view was, to me, almost radical. I ended up voting for Brady based on the gun issues here in the state (fat lotta good that did me), but if Brady's stances on social issues hadn't been so extreme, it wouldn't have even been a bump in the road to vote for him. To me, it really was weighing the lesser of two evils, and I figured the Dems that control the state legislature would have enough power to stop radical social restrictions, while the Republicans with support of downstate Dems could push on the gun issues.

It shouldn't have been a tough call, but it was because of such strict social (not Constitutional) conservative views. I think you're dead-on in saying that if the Republican party changed their line on only 2 or 3 social issue, then the Dems might never win another election.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:29   #46
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It's in the section about taxes...

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Old 06-26-2013, 10:39   #47
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That I agree with.

If the Republican party suddenly adopted a position supporting gay marriage would you expect a sudden migration of religious conservatives to the democratic party?
No, they just stay home. Like 2012
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:10   #48
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No, they just stay home. Like 2012
Then they deserve what they get. Perhaps they will figure that out eventually.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:51   #49
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Then they deserve what they get. Perhaps they will figure that out eventually.
It is what it is, and we are living the results of it. A Conservative political party cannot succeed today without the religious right.

I don't like it any more than you, but to ignore it is to fail.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:56   #50
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This is all debatable. Nothing can be proven until Constitutional conservatism is given a chance. Up until now conservatism has been completely entangled with religious views.....it's time to try something different.
Who are the 'Constitutional Republicans' you are talking about. Cruz and Paul are the only ones I can think of. The rest are just Democrats posing as Repubs.
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