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Old 06-26-2013, 09:03   #21
G36's Rule
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Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape View Post
You think that if the Republican party did not differentiate itself from the Democrats on the issue of gay marriage that Republicans would suddenly begin to favor all the advances of socialism and the rest of the Democratic platform and begin voting Democrat?
Nope, that was never said or implied. Not sure how you could get there from what was said.

If religious conservatives just go away, as was stated, then the Republicans will never have the numbers to win again. Simple math.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:04   #22
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Equal protections clause.

I'm glad this happened. They have as much right as the rest of us to be miserable.
Now can citizen of anti-gun states and cities apply the Equal Protection clause for 2A rights?

"Privilege and immunities" and all that?

Seems that clause does nothing but give more power to the central government and take power away from the state. How unusual


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DOMA is federal law.
Thanks, I was thinking the Prop 8 bit.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:04   #23
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I can't figure how they deem it unconstitutional. It's a state law. There is no constitutional right to marriage.
It's not specifically written in the Constitution but is implied. Marriages AND divorces. Which is why there are very, very few restrictions on getting married. Or getting divorced.

Otherwise the .gov can make a ton of money selling tax stamps for divorces.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:08   #24
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That's very debatable.

If the conservative political side stopped harping on about abortion and marriage, and focused on the Constitution, small government, lower taxes, etc, we could pull a lot of votes away from the left.

Take away the issues that make certain people "one issue voters", and we could see a swelling of our ranks.

I'm a kitchen designer, and spend a lot of time with folks from all walks of life. I have worked with gay and lesbian couples that, aside from the gay marriage issue, are very conservative. They hate taxes, big government, the FSA, Obummer Care, and the rest.

These people would be true conservatives if we dropped the religious part of conservatism. Since there is supposed to be a separation of Church and State, this is something we need to sort out in our own house.
It isn't debatable at all. History is fact. Evangelical conservatives that vote, win. When they stay home, Repubs lose.

You can't get away from facts or math. You can never gain enough gays or blacks to make up for snubbing the religious right.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:10   #25
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Nope, that was never said or implied. Not sure how you could get there from what was said.

If religious conservatives just go away, as was stated, then the Republicans will never have the numbers to win again. Simple math.
Again, that is very debatable.

Religious conservatives threw a hissy fit and sat at home the last election, because Romney was a Mormon.

So, if we take that as a base-line, we have nothing to lose if we just forsake them and move forward under the banner of true, Constitutional conservatism.

And in doing so, leaving out the issues of abortion and marriage, many people that vote Democratic would switch to voting Republican. And most importantly, being a Republican (or conservative) would no longer have the anti-social connotation it does now, so it would grow even more, as the popular side to be on.

Conservatives just keep slitting their own throats, committing political suicide, by having on their agenda the issues of abortion and marriage. If we embrace the right to chose, if we support gay marriage, I would forsee decades of Constitutionally conservative government.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:12   #26
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It isn't debatable at all. History is fact. Evangelical conservatives that vote, win. When they stay home, Repubs lose.

You can't get away from facts or math. You can never gain enough gays or blacks to make up for snubbing the religious right.
This is all debatable. Nothing can be proven until Constitutional conservatism is given a chance. Up until now conservatism has been completely entangled with religious views.....it's time to try something different.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:12   #27
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A sad day for America. At least CA has it right.
Yeah.....not so much. Prop 8 was shot down by the state government, and was just shot down about by the Supreme Court. That doesn't sound like they were "right" to me....
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:15   #28
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Live and let live.
Frankly, its not my preference, but how someone else chooses to live their life, who they love is frankly none of my business.
This is simply not an important issue for the country to be consuming so much energy.
No one is being forced to do anything they dont want to do.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:19   #29
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Now can citizen of anti-gun states and cities apply the Equal Protection clause for 2A rights?

"Privilege and immunities" and all that?
Well, yes. Do you know of any states which bar gays, women, minorities, or the elderly from owning guns? I don't.

Thats the great thing about the equal protections clause. It protects people from being discriminated against as best we can. Its one of the most American parts of the constitution.

Quote:
Seems that clause does nothing but give more power to the central government and take power away from the state. How unusual
Disregarding the fact that DOMA was a federal law, the states don't have the power to defy the constitution. Some things are supposed to be enforced at the federal level. Now if only our second amendment could get this kind of respect, we'd really be on the right track. Don't you agree?
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:22   #30
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This is all debatable. Nothing can be proven until Constitutional conservatism is given a chance.
Hardline Republicans will vote Red. Hardline Democrats will vote blue. All the time. They have no independent thought-process. They just vote party line. The moderates will be swung by the perceived quality of the candidate and their stances on the issues. Those are the ones people campaign to.

I think a constitutional conservative could grab moderates on both sides of the fence. Mostly because religious conservatives turn most of us off. I know the moderates I've spoken to on both sides of the political spectrum have detested the Republicans' choice for president the last 2 elections, and we won't even get into how much they dislike Obama.

The answer isn't to go more extreme. The extremists already buy that crap hook-line-and-sinker every election. You won't ever lose their votes because they don't know how to vote any different. Its time to reach out to the moderates who demonstrate critical thinking skills to pick a candidate.

Last edited by John Rambo; 06-26-2013 at 09:24..
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:23   #31
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I think a constitutional conservative could grab moderates on both sides of the fence. Mostly because religious conservatives turn most of us off.
Damn straight.

Hey...why'd you change your post?
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Last edited by M&P15T; 06-26-2013 at 09:29..
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:30   #32
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Just to clarify. DOMA is a federal law signed by Bill Clinton. This was ruled unconstitutional.

PROP 8 is State proposition against gay marriage which was passed through the voting process. Prop 8 was struck down by a lower court. The supreme court chose to leave that decision alone, thus paving the way for Marriage between same sex partners.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:35   #33
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Originally Posted by G36's Rule View Post
Nope, that was never said or implied. Not sure how you could get there from what was said.

If religious conservatives just go away, as was stated, then the Republicans will never have the numbers to win again. Simple math.
That I agree with.

If the Republican party suddenly adopted a position supporting gay marriage would you expect a sudden migration of religious conservatives to the democratic party?
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:51   #34
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It seems to me consensual sodomy was outlawed CONSTITUTIONALLY for the first 200 years of this country.

Abortion is also in the same boat.

I also agree let's go back to the original founding father's ideas.

What do you have to say now?

Last edited by jay29; 06-26-2013 at 09:52..
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:56   #35
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It seems to me consensual sodomy was outlawed CONSTITUTIONALLY for the first 200 years of this country.

Abortion is also in the same boat.

I also agree let's go back to the original founding father's ideas.

What do you have to say now?
Please quote the part of the Constitution/Amendments/Bill of Rights which discusses sodomy.
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Last edited by M&P15T; 06-26-2013 at 09:56..
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:57   #36
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Glad to hear it.

If religious conservatives would go away, Constitutional conservatives would have a weight off their shoulders, and could get this country righted again.
As a moderate, this rings true for me. I think both sides have extremists that are forcing the hyper-polarization of politics and society.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:58   #37
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No surprise, the Supreme Court usually does what the elites want, this has nothing to do with the constitution. I'm more and more ashamed to be an American. Oh well, I'm only passing through.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:00   #38
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Please quote the part of the Constitution/Amendments/Bill of Rights which discusses sodomy.
It was the law of the land and was never challenged by the constitution. It was illegal to commit consensual sodomy, abortion, and now come to think of it: adultery.

I agree, let's go back in time.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:03   #39
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No surprise, the Supreme Court usually does what the elites want, this has nothing to do with the constitution. I'm more and more ashamed to be an American. Oh well, I'm only passing through.
I'm only passing through on my pilgrimage like you. Jesus said he is not the prince of this world. He wasn't kidding. Satan is the prince of this evil world and it shows everyday.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:03   #40
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SCOTUS strikes down (D)Clinton anti-gay law, Reagan appointee writes majority opinion.
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