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View Poll Results: Is this a muscle car era?
Yes, its the new muscle era 74 52.86%
No, only the originals are true muscle cars. 66 47.14%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll


 
  
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Old 06-26-2013, 21:55   #81
devildog2067
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Originally Posted by 427 View Post
There are vehicles from the '20's 30s that were in high demand then that are still in high demand now with people paying insane prices.
The buyers are few and far between (but so are the surviving cars, which is why prices are so high).

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Most of the people who grew up with them are gone, yet the demand is still there.
Not nearly as much demand. A 1930's Duesenberg isn't nearly as easy to sell as a 1960's Camaro.

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Old 06-26-2013, 22:00   #82
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I hear this all the time. Then you see them running with modern tires at the strip, and this is shown to just not be so true.

A FWIW. you can generally tell the power to weight of a car very accurately by the trap speed in a 1/4 mile. Doesnt matter about tires. You can spin the crap out of them and if anything you will GAIN a mph or two. Trap speed is pretty independent of traction. ET is VERY more reliant on traction. Its easier to make up ET on the short end of the track than the big end.
My 66 SS427/425 Impala was high 13s on street tires and open exhaust. On slicks the fastest, IIRC I managed was 12.6 at like 110mph.

Tires made a huge difference in the performance that car.
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Last edited by 427; 06-26-2013 at 22:04..
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Old 06-26-2013, 22:03   #83
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Wasnht it some dealer built chevy like a Yenko was?
No, it was factory.
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Old 06-26-2013, 22:12   #84
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Dont flatter yourself too much. I am sure you dont smell as good as Cologne.

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Old 06-26-2013, 22:20   #85
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
I still have no idea what you mean by "red light." Do you mean the Christmas tree?
"at the redlight" or "from redlight to redlight" means the stop light at a roadway intersection, its red, yellow and green, it hangs from wires and some are mounted on poles.. [cars you would see at the redlight] simply means cars you would see around town/ any town/ your town.

I think you are pulling my leg about the "how many sensors" thing. I am sure you understand the concept of one car being more electronically involved than another.. if you feel that a vette is as computer involved as most foreign sports cars, you can I guess.

Kool is relative? yep it is
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Old 06-26-2013, 22:22   #86
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Originally Posted by 427 View Post
My 66 SS427/425 Impala was high 13s on street tires and open exhaust. On slicks the fastest, IIRC I managed was 12.6 at like 110mph.

Tires made a huge difference in the performance that car.
Ad the trap speed probably didnt change. The tire make a difference in ET, not much on trap speed. Spinning tires normally make a little more trap speed (not much, but a little)
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Old 06-26-2013, 22:32   #87
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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
"at the redlight" or "from redlight to redlight" means the stop light at a roadway intersection, its red, yellow and green, it hangs from wires and some are mounted on poles.. [cars you would see at the redlight] simply means cars you would see around town/ any town/ your town.
I guess it depends where one lives...

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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
I think you are pulling my leg about the "how many sensors" thing. I am sure you understand the concept of one car being more electronically involved than another.. if you feel that a vette is as involved as most foreign sports cars, you can I guess.
Now you are changing. Lets take some basic things vettes have that are "less involved". Magnetically controlled shock fluid, gear lockouts for mpg, etc. Since 1998 vettes have had "active handling" (electronic stability control).

If you want "involved", then a 911 GT3 is "involved"; not a vette. Even better if you pick an GT3 RS or GT3 RSR.

Almost every modern high performance car has traction control, stability control, ABS, and some sort or active damping. I dont care if it is a vette, a ferarri, or a subaru BRZ. THe tuning of the systems is what determines how far you can push it before the car takes over and tries to fix your mistakes.
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Old 06-26-2013, 22:50   #88
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
How many sensors does a 370Z have. How many sensors does a Z06 have? You are making the the assertion that one has more than another, so how many does each have?



I still have no idea what you mean by "red light." Do you mean the Christmas tree?
I'm not about to go to alldata and count to make you happy. If you had the car knowledge of an full time mechanic, like I do, then you would understand that its a more complicated system in modern DOHC engines. They use more cam position sensors, most of them have actuators for variable valve timing, etc. Its a more complicated system than a pushrod engine.

IF you want to know how many spend your own time to go and count. The rest of us are comfortable in the fact that you dont have the knowledge to make the claim that you did.
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Old 06-26-2013, 23:03   #89
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Ah, the undefined muscle car argument.

A new Challenger is still a pony car because they used the name of a pony car again even though it's the size of an old muscle car, yet heavier, more powerful, and faster than one.
The new version of Dodge's muscle car, the Charger, is as big as an old muscle car, and heavier, more powerful, and faster yet has 4 doors so it isn't.
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Old 06-26-2013, 23:17   #90
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Strip times are cool, but lateral g's on a skidpad are far, far cooler. HH
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Old 06-27-2013, 00:02   #91
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I'd love an old Challenger but in my youth I was a broke *** and today the cost of the survivors is astronomical. I've been thinking about the new ones and they do fit the super cool bill for a middle aged guy and 25K is in my price range. I no longer have a lead foot or the need for speed but still admire the 6o's styling lines which is what brought us all to fall in love with these machines in the first place!
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Old 06-27-2013, 02:01   #92
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Old era:

Hemi Mopars
Buick GS
Yenko
Mustang GT500

New era:

Dodge Challenger
Ford Mustang
Chevy Camaro.'08.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:47   #93
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Since no one ever defined the COPO 9561

Central Office Production Order

From the first couple of google links:

http://www.holisticpage.com/camaro/camaros/copo.htm

http://www.cartersclassicmusclecars....aro/camaro.htm
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:25   #94
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Originally Posted by 69HEMI-R/T View Post
the main problem with today's musclecars is cost! Yeah, NEW musclecars were relatively expensive back in the old days but a 2 to 3 year old car was certainly cheap enough and you could work on them yourself.
Today's musclecars are certainly better in almost every way compared to the original musclecars of the past but how many do you see in teenage of early '20 year old hands with someone "souping" them up in their driveway?

To Herrglock: If you drive one of those new 4-DOOR cars Dodge foolishly calls a "Charger" , It ain't a Charger! Chargers were only made with 2 doors! Here is a REAL Hemicharger!

The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral
That's a real Charger. Nice.
The new Charger with 4 doors?? Come on.

And the 426 was a real Hemi combustion chamber.
Not so on the current version.

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Old 06-27-2013, 05:54   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashgap View Post
Pretty much the opposite. The cars of the sixties were thrown together crap. They used thick steel (sometimes) because they didn't really understand steel, and were not capable of making the steel and other materials used today.
Thick steal you can work dents out of and maintain the original piece. When it comes to restoration, that's better.

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The cars from 1993 look FAR better today than the cars of 1965 did in 1985. Not even close.
Entirely subjective. Not relevant.

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Forty years from now (barring a major tech change), the cars of today will be so common, they won't be worth restoring. There will still be too many of them to make a restoration worthwhile.
Tech was the biggest thing on my mind with my post. Modern stuff has trouble lasting 10 years. I wouldn't be so sure that in 2053 you'll be able to get the crank position sensor, neutral safety switch or throttle position sensor you must have to make your electronic antique even start.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:57   #96
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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
I recently found a 1986 Conquest TSI that was in a garage and darn near turned to dust. I had hopes to restore it but there was just no way. Down the street there is a 1955 chevy that has been sitting under a pine tree for 40 years that is in better shape.
Dad's recently picked up a 79 Chevy Malibu wagon for a song. I drooled over it and had hopes of buying it from him and restoring it with him until I noticed that every piece of interior plastic is about the consistency of particle board that's gotten wet and dried out.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:08   #97
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Kool is relative. IF you want the high maintenance style woman, a muscle car wont be anywhere near kool.

My wife says that the only men who drive old muscle cars, camaros, and mustangs are men who havent grown up. She calls them boy racer cars.

Just look at this:

The Okie Corral

IROC-Z. The EPITOME of coolness.
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Originally Posted by 427 View Post
I had a white 89 IROC . It was cool. That one has 91-92 ground effects.
I too had an 89 camaro also but it was only the 305 engine version pretty slow and couldnt modify it like the 350 versionBut i also had my 67 big block camaro at the time so that was play car

I do agree that i was not concidering a 500 hp honda as a muscle car. they far from come from the factory like that and would require a tremendous amount of modification to reach that level. This article and my thoughts were more refering to factory stock new "muscle cars". of course these can be further modified as well for some really serious horsepower. So i guess the numbers are one thing but they do not turn heads like an old muscle car. Everywhere i went with my 67 everyone wanted to talk to me about it and said nice car at every stop light. They also wanted to buy it every time it left the garage.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:44   #98
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Originally Posted by Cashgap
The cars from 1993 look FAR better today than the cars of 1965 did in 1985. Not even close.

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Originally Posted by Kevin108 View Post
Entirely subjective. Not relevant.
I meant, the cars of 1993 have all original body panels after 150,000 miles, all trim intact, etc. The 1965 cars that lasted to 1985 were ready for the rotisserie by then.

By "look", I meant, nearly all original body and unibody intact versus nearly none of original body and unibody intact.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:48   #99
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I dont know id say todays cars have a very valid case/argument. I have a 1973 Dart Sport 340(for sale $7500) I would like a newer Charger with a hemi and AWD. I have found over the years I love the LOOKS of the old muscle cars I just dont have the mechanical expertise nor anyone to theah me it to actually maintain them. New ones...oh X Y or Z is broken...covered under warranty

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Old 06-27-2013, 06:55   #100
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No, it was factory.
COPO = Corporate Office Production Order. Basically stripped but with the best engine/drive train so folks like Yenko could customize them.
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