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View Poll Results: Is this a muscle car era?
Yes, its the new muscle era 74 52.86%
No, only the originals are true muscle cars. 66 47.14%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-23-2013, 16:25   #576
Kichigai
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i was in full leathers didnt feel a thing just a low side on that one freakin tires
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Old 07-23-2013, 16:40   #577
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When your that high even if you manage to kick the bike from under you, you're fu#$3d no matter what. Even if you stay on and just let the bike take it like if you overjump the landing, your ankles and wrists are probably gonna break at the least. Pretty much the only reason I quit, lots and lots of broken bones, but the last injury wasn't a broken bone but I could damn near see my insides from my side landing on my footpeg. It ROYALLY sucked.(plus another kid who was sponsored by the same place I was came up short on a big triple, pushed his bike away mid air and landed on the face of the upside(the worst place to possible land). Broke his back BAD, he's now a paraplegic. Stuff like that is sometimes the only thing that makes you think long and hard.
I know only had two really bad landings one was an undershoot not expecting to land on the top 1/3 face of the second could not get back on the throttle fast enough bottomed the suspension and ribs hit the handlebars broke two floating ribs finished race but hurt for about a month.. The other was an overshoot that took me To the bottom of the last triple jump instead of landing on the slope, bottomed the suspension bike flew over me dislocated shoulder broke a few fingers and nose, very lucky. Did not finish that race hat was about two months.. And oddly enough stopped trying to span all the jumps from that point on making me slower and less fun.. Tried it again in my mid 30s very bad idea back hurt and gave it p.


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Old 07-23-2013, 21:26   #578
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Classy answer and who can argue with your facts?
Compared to your facts?


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Old 07-24-2013, 10:25   #579
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Compared to your facts?


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Seriously?

I made a humorous post reflecting what most of the automotive intelligentsia intuitively know.

But for your benefit here goes.

No one keeps empirical records of what percentage of cars equipped with nitrous systems are damaged. It would not be to the benefit of those selling those systems to do so.

But just consider the things that can happen.

Due to the greatly increased cylinder pressures, the motor as a whole is placed under much greater stress, particularly the parts associated with the combustion chamber. A motor with components not strong enough to handle the increased stress imposed by the use of nitrous systems can suffer major engine damage, such as cracked or destroyed pistons, connecting rods, or crankshafts.

Even if the motor is beefy enough, severe damage can occur if a problem occurs in the fuel delivery system; a motor running with nitrous oxide depends heavily on the proper air to fuel ratio to prevent detonation from occurring. If the motor's fuel supply is reduced, this causes the engine to run lean by whatever degree the fuel delivery was reduced, which can lead to engine knock or detonation. Depending on the motor, this may only need to occur for a matter of seconds before there's major damage.

If a rev limiter is installed on your car, it’s essential to not reach the fuel cut off as this will momentarily restrict the fuel flow to the motor and because nitrous is still being injected into the motor without the additional cooling fuel, the motor will again run lean and cause detonation.

Ignition timing must also be watched closely when using nitrous oxide. If it isn’t retarded properly, once again detonation can occur. You also have to watch the octane of the fuel you use – higher is better, because, you guessed it – lower octane fuel can cause detonation.

Proper fuel enrichment is
essential. If this doesn’t occur, the fuel can 'drop out' and puddle in the intake tract, potentially causing a backfire.

Backfire result.

The Okie Corral
Narrative for above photo.
"
Well i just got home from an experience i will never forget and one that i will wish never happened but that's life right. I was just driving down the street and i was sitting at a stop light when my rpm starting rising while my foot was still on the clutch they stopped at about 3000 and stayed there for a couple seconds and the next thing i know the hood of my car was in my windshield the airbags were in my face and there was smoke every where. I haven't assessed total damage which i will try to do tomorrow but i know that it was my nitrous that blew up shot my front bumper clear across the intersection blew the intake manifold of completely there is a empty hole where the intake was. So the car that i have only had for about 6 months and still owe 21,000 dollars on is sitting in a repo yard with a blown engine and totaled front in and a LOT more misery to follow in the next couple of months. So my advice to everyone is to think twice about nitrous."

Think also, if you rupture your bottle (compromised in an accident) then when the free nitrous meets spark, you're going to blow up the car and anything in close proximity to it. Think Fast and Furious... but not so Hollywood.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:36   #580
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Nitrous is an inert gas, it can't blow up on its own. It supplies extra oxygen and you supply the extra fuel.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:51   #581
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Nitrous is an inert gas, it can't blow up on its own. It supplies extra oxygen and you supply the extra fuel.
Don't let facts get in the way of story time.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:01   #582
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Originally Posted by GVFlyer View Post
That must have been nice. This is what I'm contending with today. Ouch.

The Okie CorralPilot Sport PS2(Max Performance Summer)

The Okie Corral Sidewall Style: Blackwall
The Okie Corral The Okie Corral The Okie Corral
Click thumbnails to view above. Most approximate photos shown View Full Screen Photo.

2012 BMW M3 Coupe Competition Package


  • Front: 245/35ZR19
    BMW
    Sidewall Style: Blackwall
  • Price: $355.00 (each)
  • Rear: 265/35ZR19
    BMW
    Sidewall Style: Blackwall
  • Price: $425.00 (each)
Set of 4: $1,560.00
That's steep.....here's my tires.....the first set lasted me 10K miles, the 2nd set seem to be doing better.

2012 Ford Mustang GT Coupe Brembo Brakes

P Zero(Max Performance Summer)
  • Size: 255/40ZR19
    Mercedes
  • Price: $306.00 (each)
  • Set of 4: $1,224.00
The Okie Corral
Short life-span, but the sum-beaches sure grip.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:36   #583
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i have a lexus is250 tires cost about $1100 and only last 10k miles and its not exactly a car you can drive hard at all. Its crazy. if the car had power or i was taking turns hard or driving fast then yeah i get it.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:53   #584
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i have a lexus is250 tires cost about $1100 and only last 10k miles and its not exactly a car you can drive hard at all. Its crazy. if the car had power or i was taking turns hard or driving fast then yeah i get it.
The next time tire replacement comes up, shop around on TireRack.com

You can find less expensive, longer lasting, better riding, quieter, cheaper tires. You will sacrifice some of the performance, but it sounds like that wouldn't really bother you.
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Old 07-24-2013, 13:21   #585
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Originally Posted by GVFlyer View Post
Seriously?

I made a humorous post reflecting what most of the automotive intelligentsia intuitively know.

But for your benefit here goes.

No one keeps empirical records of what percentage of cars equippperfectly itrous systems are damaged. It would not be to the benefit of those selling those systems to do so.

But just consider the things that can happen.

Due to the greatly increased cylinder pressures, the motor as a whole is placed under much greater stress, particularly the parts associated with the combustion chamber. A motor with components not strong enough to handle the increased stress imposed by the use of nitrous systems can suffer major engine damage, such as cracked or destroyed pistons, connecting rods, or crankshafts.

Even if the motor is beefy enough, severe damage can occur if a problem occurs in the fuel delivery system; a motor running with nitrous oxide depends heavily on the proper air to fuel ratio to prevent detonation from occurring. If the motor's fuel supply is reduced, this causes the engine to run lean by whatever degree the fuel delivery was reduced, which can lead to engine knock or detonation. Depending on the motor, this may only need to occur for a matter of seconds before there's major damage.

If a rev limiter is installed on your car, it’s essential to not reach the fuel cut off as this will momentarily restrict the fuel flow to the motor and because nitrous is still being injected into the motor without the additional cooling fuel, the motor will again run lean and cause detonation.

Ignition timing must also be watched closely when using nitrous oxide. If it isn’t retarded properly, once again detonation can occur. You also have to watch the octane of the fuel you use – lower is better, because, you guessed it – high octane fuel can cause detonation.

Proper fuel enrichment is
[FONT=Verdana] essential. If this doesn’t occur, the fuel can 'drop out' and puddle in the intake tract, potentially causing a backfire.
For arguments sake, the above hold true with a turbo or supercharger to the same extent. All the added air obviously leans the mixture out, so air fuel has to be spot on or kaboom. Detonation is alsoa major factor with boost, expecially when you try to stay with a compression ratio above roughly 9.5/1.
Its also the opposite of what iI bolded. With lower octane fuel and boost/nitrous, detonation is more likely to happen. Higher octane fuel actaully burns LESS efficiently/slower/harder to ignite than a lower octane, which is how it helps eliminate detonation and allows more timing to be run.

And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just saying if done right, they can all last 100,000 miles or if done cheaply and with short cuts, they could all blow up on the first hit.
Sometimes everything could have been done perfectly and come apart or detonate and burn up a piston within 5 minutes.
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Old 07-24-2013, 13:33   #586
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For arguments sake, the same holds all of the above holds true to the same extent with a turbo or supercharger. All the added air obviously leans the mixture out, so air fuel has to be spot on or kaboom. Detonation is alsoa major factor with boost, expecially when you try to stay with a compression ratio above roughly 9.5/1.
Its also the opposite of what iI bolded. With lower octane fuel and boost/nitrous, detonation is more likely to happen. Higher octane fuel actaully burns LESS efficiently than a lower octane, which is how it helps eliminate detonation.
I did not have the heart to hit him all at once.. In my supercharged car I had a low octane and high Octane tune,,The high Octane tune was much more agressive because the higher the octane the more detonation resistant the fuel is.

Going N/O2 without an upgrade to the fuel delivery system is a blown motor waiting to happen.

When I put a blower on my mustang it was a Fuel pump first, Shorty headers and offroad Xpipe, new intake larger TB , new MAF and tune when the blower went on along with a new CIA and better K&N conical filter.
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Old 07-24-2013, 15:00   #587
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
That's steep.....here's my tires.....the first set lasted me 10K miles, the 2nd set seem to be doing better.

2012 Ford Mustang GT Coupe Brembo Brakes

P Zero(Max Performance Summer)
  • Size: 255/40ZR19
    Mercedes
  • Price: $306.00 (each)
  • Set of 4: $1,224.00
The Okie Corral
Short life-span, but the sum-beaches sure grip.
Pirelli P-Zeros are great tires; I've used them in the past...and if you're lucky, you'll get a Pirelli Calendar.

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http://www.fastcocreate.com/1682031/...lli-calendar#1
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Old 07-24-2013, 15:18   #588
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I have a funny P zero story, a local manager of a tire store was in his back lot looking at two huge burnout marks and telling a story as I drove through one day.

Not to miss a good story I rolled up and and asked what happened .
He started grinning and said "you know him"
and metioned a friend with a Zr1 and I said yup what happened.

Seems my buddy dropped off his ZR1 for some new rear tires p zero Rosso he heard they had good wear, and the shop manager told him he would get to it after lunch...
My buddy stopped back about an hour later and jumped in the car took it to the back lot and did a HUGE...Burnout like filled the parking lot in this small industrial area with smoke.. of course the guys in the shop are all yelling YEAHHHH..
He gets out and tells the shop guys, I wanted to do a good burnout before ya'll changed them tires.

Problem was the shop was slow and they changed the tires out first thing .. He had seriously taken some tread off the tire and was pissed.

When I asked him about it the next time I saw him he just turned red and asked me how I knew...LMAO
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Old 07-24-2013, 15:21   #589
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Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
For arguments sake, the above hold true with a turbo or supercharger to the same extent. All the added air obviously leans the mixture out, so air fuel has to be spot on or kaboom. Detonation is alsoa major factor with boost, expecially when you try to stay with a compression ratio above roughly 9.5/1.
Its also the opposite of what iI bolded. With lower octane fuel and boost/nitrous, detonation is more likely to happen. Higher octane fuel actaully burns LESS efficiently/slower/harder to ignite than a lower octane, which is how it helps eliminate detonation and allows more timing to be run.

And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just saying if done right, they can all last 100,000 miles or if done cheaply and with short cuts, they could all blow up on the first hit.
Sometimes everything could have been done perfectly and come apart or detonate and burn up a piston within 5 minutes.
Copy that. No one will argue that higher octane fuel is harder to burn than lower octane fuel, but that's not what's at work with nitrous engines. A nitrous motor depends heavily on fuel for cooling and lower octane fuel cools better. Smart guys I know using nitrous use E85.

Nitrous can add cheap performance, but it's not for me. Empirically, just from the engine volatility that I've seen with NOS systems (allegedly the best), I wouldn't consider it.

Practically, the S65 motor on my M3 costs $23,000 and still has 5 years of warranty remaining which would be voided by it's use...if I were so inclined.

A doctor friend who was dissatisfied with his Nissan GTR, took a deep dive into nitrous. After careful consideration, he went with Methanol injection.

The Okie Corral
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Last edited by GVFlyer; 07-24-2013 at 15:34..
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Old 07-24-2013, 16:06   #590
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E85 is very effective at helping to cool intake charges.

But me, I just drive around in a lowly 180hp 320d and don't worry about being fast. I could never keep up.

But, I suspect my slow company car this summer has a higher average speed than probably anyone posting I this thread. I would even go so far as saying this summer it has had more miles at over 125mph than all the "muscle cars" in this thread have seen in the cars lifetime.

So who needs more than 180hp?
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Old 07-24-2013, 18:44   #591
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Originally Posted by GVFlyer View Post
Copy that. No one will argue that higher octane fuel is harder to burn than lower octane fuel, but that's not what's at work with nitrous engines. A nitrous motor depends heavily on fuel for cooling and lower octane fuel cools better. Smart guys I know using nitrous use E85.

Nitrous can add cheap performance, but it's not for me. Empirically, just from the engine volatility that I've seen with NOS systems (allegedly the best), I wouldn't consider it.

Practically, the S65 motor on my M3 costs $23,000 and still has 5 years of warranty remaining which would be voided by it's use...if I were so inclined.

A doctor friend who was dissatisfied with his Nissan GTR, took a deep dive into nitrous. After careful consideration, he went with Methanol injection.

The Okie Corral
The reason people use e85 is because it is for all intents and purposes cheap high-octane race gas. Its roughly 110 octane(the 85 is just the ethanol percentage), it burns cool, and its way cheaper than race gas. You can run lots of timing(more timing=more power, to a point) and still be detonation free, unlike 87. Lower octane gas does not burn cooler. There would be no benefit only downsides to running 87 octane with nitrous as opposed to 93 or higher. The biggest factor in any power adder(whether the o2 is added chemically with nitrous or mechanically with a blower, more fuel is needed either way) is preventing detonation/ pre ignition which will instantly melt pistons. Higher octane fuel has to be added to prevent this.

The only problem with e85 is it is so effective(slow burning, less btu's) it only has 2/3 the energy of regular gas. HUGE injectors and big twin fuel pumps are needed. I'm running twin fuel bumps with boosted voltage with 80lb injectors (this is quite a nasty fuel set up), and I still wouldn't be able to run e85.

All that said its not for me either, only cause I don't feel like refilling the bottle every other day.(I wouldn't be able to help myself)
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Old 07-24-2013, 18:53   #592
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Copy that. No one will argue that higher octane fuel is harder to burn than lower octane fuel, but that's not what's at work with nitrous engines. A nitrous motor depends heavily on fuel for cooling and lower octane fuel cools better. Smart guys I know using nitrous use E85.

Nitrous can add cheap performance, but it's not for me. Empirically, just from the engine volatility that I've seen with NOS systems (allegedly the best), I wouldn't consider it.

Practically, the S65 motor on my M3 costs $23,000 and still has 5 years of warranty remaining which would be voided by it's use...if I were so inclined.

A doctor friend who was dissatisfied with his Nissan GTR, took a deep dive into nitrous. After careful consideration, he went with Methanol injection.

The Okie Corral
Quit while you are ahead lower octane fuel does not cool better e85 does because of its ethanol content, not because of octane rating.




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Old 07-24-2013, 18:57   #593
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I love both..no doubt the originals are great because of the looks/classic looks...new ones are great because they give you something thats FAST, RELIABLE(with a warranty) and gets decent MPG too boot. Im torn between my next car being a "modern" muscle car OR if they can finally eek 25+ MPG out of a 4X4 truck a truck if they can. Thats kinda the other "next big thing" trucks that actually get MPG thats not total crap(and I mean 4X4 trucks not 2WD)
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Old 07-24-2013, 19:11   #594
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Originally Posted by CBennett View Post
I love both..no doubt the originals are great because of the looks/classic looks...new ones are great because they give you something thats FAST, RELIABLE(with a warranty) and gets decent MPG too boot. Im torn between my next car being a "modern" muscle car OR if they can finally eek 25+ MPG out of a 4X4 truck a truck if they can. Thats kinda the other "next big thing" trucks that actually get MPG thats not total crap(and I mean 4X4 trucks not 2WD)
thats back on topic
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Old 07-24-2013, 19:41   #595
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Quit while you are ahead lower octane fuel does not cool better e85 does because of its ethanol content, not because of octane rating.

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Yeah, you're right. I just read this NOS manual (which is fatiguing considering it is a system that I will never use). It supports your position on this issue. I stand behind everything else I said in my post critical of nitrous oxide engines.
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Old 07-24-2013, 19:47   #596
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Originally Posted by GVFlyer View Post
Seriously?

I made a humorous post reflecting what most of the automotive intelligentsia intuitively know.

But for your benefit here goes.

No one keeps empirical records of what percentage of cars equipped with nitrous systems are damaged. It would not be to the benefit of those selling those systems to do so.

But just consider the things that can happen.

Due to the greatly increased cylinder pressures, the motor as a whole is placed under much greater stress, particularly the parts associated with the combustion chamber. A motor with components not strong enough to handle the increased stress imposed by the use of nitrous systems can suffer major engine damage, such as cracked or destroyed pistons, connecting rods, or crankshafts.

Even if the motor is beefy enough, severe damage can occur if a problem occurs in the fuel delivery system; a motor running with nitrous oxide depends heavily on the proper air to fuel ratio to prevent detonation from occurring. If the motor's fuel supply is reduced, this causes the engine to run lean by whatever degree the fuel delivery was reduced, which can lead to engine knock or detonation. Depending on the motor, this may only need to occur for a matter of seconds before there's major damage.

If a rev limiter is installed on your car, it’s essential to not reach the fuel cut off as this will momentarily restrict the fuel flow to the motor and because nitrous is still being injected into the motor without the additional cooling fuel, the motor will again run lean and cause detonation.

Ignition timing must also be watched closely when using nitrous oxide. If it isn’t retarded properly, once again detonation can occur. You also have to watch the octane of the fuel you use – lower is better, because, you guessed it – high octane fuel can cause detonation.

Proper fuel enrichment is
essential. If this doesn’t occur, the fuel can 'drop out' and puddle in the intake tract, potentially causing a backfire.

Backfire result.

The Okie Corral
Narrative for above photo.
"
Well i just got home from an experience i will never forget and one that i will wish never happened but that's life right. I was just driving down the street and i was sitting at a stop light when my rpm starting rising while my foot was still on the clutch they stopped at about 3000 and stayed there for a couple seconds and the next thing i know the hood of my car was in my windshield the airbags were in my face and there was smoke every where. I haven't assessed total damage which i will try to do tomorrow but i know that it was my nitrous that blew up shot my front bumper clear across the intersection blew the intake manifold of completely there is a empty hole where the intake was. So the car that i have only had for about 6 months and still owe 21,000 dollars on is sitting in a repo yard with a blown engine and totaled front in and a LOT more misery to follow in the next couple of months. So my advice to everyone is to think twice about nitrous."

Think also, if you rupture your bottle (hit in an accident) then when the free nitrous meets spark, you're going to blow up the car and anything within a few feet of it. Think Fast and Furious... but not so Hollywood.
You posted a common misconception about nitrous.

Get some experience with nitrous it is a great and safe power adder. Makes a ton of torque on the bottle and drives like a stock car off the bottle. I think every gear head should have at least one nitrous kit in his or her life.


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Old 07-24-2013, 19:50   #597
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Yeah, you're right. I just read this NOS manual (which is fatiguing considering it is a system that I will never use). It supports your position on this issue. I stand behind everything else I said in my post critical of nitrous oxide engines.
Every issue you listed is a problem that could happen with supercharges or turbos if not tuned right or misused.


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Old 07-24-2013, 20:09   #598
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Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
Add a little boost to that m3, even 5-6 pounds would probably be insane without starting to break the drivetrain.
....
There's not much room in the M3's engine bay to add anything.

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Old 07-24-2013, 20:20   #599
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Originally Posted by RC-RAMIE View Post
Every issue you listed is a problem that could happen with supercharges or turbos if not tuned right or misused.


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True, but irrelevant. If either of the turbochargers on my BMW 335is disintegrates or even destroys the engine, I flip the overhead switch and call BMW Assist who sends out a transporter, takes my car to the dealership and repairs it free under warranty.

Likewise with my brother's LR-V8 Range Rover with the supercharged 5.0 liter engine - if the supercharger causes damage to his engine, it is repaired under warranty.

It either of us is foolish enough to add nitrous, we're on our own repairing very expensive engines.
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Old 07-24-2013, 20:22   #600
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Originally Posted by RC-RAMIE View Post
You posted a common misconception about nitrous.

Get some experience with nitrous it is a great and safe power adder. Makes a ton of torque on the bottle and drives like a stock car off the bottle. I think every gear head should have at least one nitrous kit in his or her life.


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Please read for content, then advise me where I am factually wrong.
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