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View Poll Results: Is this a muscle car era?
Yes, its the new muscle era 74 52.86%
No, only the originals are true muscle cars. 66 47.14%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-28-2013, 13:36   #226
eb07
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One last hijack.... my 7/11. She wasn't pretty but she was a sleeper. I miss that bike.

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Old 06-28-2013, 13:48   #227
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I had a w30 442 1970 , a 1971, 4406pack charger RT and a. 89 TTA, the turbo TA was the fastest but the 442 was a beast.

my next car, will be a babied 2007 mustang gt500 Shelby ,. Those things can be made stupid fast with a few bolt ons and a tune and good low mileage car,s are popping up in the mid to high 20's
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Old 06-28-2013, 14:45   #228
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my next car, will be a babied 2007 mustang gt500 Shelby ,. Those things can be made stupid fast with a few bolt ons and a tune and good low mileage car,s are popping up in the mid to high 20's
Just an FYI...

Those cars handled poorly, and had under-hood heat-soak issues. I would imagine that the after-market has those issues tackled if you're willing to spend the money.

Oh, and the brakes need up-grading too.

It might be advisable to wait until 2010+ Shelbys get to the price you want.
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Old 06-28-2013, 15:15   #229
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The cars today are better in almost every way. They are faster, safer, more relaiable and efficient. And look at the new Mustangs, Camaros, and Challenger. They are some increadibly good looking cars, but when compared to the old classics that inspired them, they just have no sole!
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Old 06-28-2013, 15:18   #230
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The cars today are better in almost every way. They are faster, safer, more relaiable and efficient. And look at the new Mustangs, Camaros, and Challenger. They are some increadibly good looking cars, but when compared to the old classics that inspired them, they just have no sole!
Agreed but then again, they're not 40 years old either.
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Old 06-28-2013, 15:53   #231
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Just an FYI...

Those cars handled poorly, and had under-hood heat-soak issues. I would imagine that the after-market has those issues tackled if you're willing to spend the money.

Oh, and the brakes need up-grading too.

It might be advisable to wait until 2010+ Shelbys get to the price you want.
Nahhh I have driven one with the issues fixed for about 1500.the brakes need pads that's about all at first you can upgrade rotors later stock injectors will get you about x600 ish at the wheels. Very inexpensive suspension mods will get it launching like a beast and it looks better IMHO than the new ones. Tons of cheapest mods for that car.
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Old 06-28-2013, 16:05   #232
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my next car, will be a babied 2007 mustang gt500 Shelby ,. Those things can be made stupid fast with a few bolt ons and a tune and good low mileage car,s are popping up in the mid to high 20's
That's a really nice car, and you don't pass 10 of them on the way to work like the new Mustangs.
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Old 06-28-2013, 16:30   #233
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Hands down the best cars are made today. Just the refinements in handling make a difference. My wife has a 66 mustang. It is a great car but after a day of hard driving I an worn out. It is fatiguing to drive the older cars compared to the new ones.
Very true. One of the biggest complaints I hear from pro drivers about the GTR is that it's too easy to drive fast and hard, and doesn't feel enough like you're fighting to keep it under control.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:56   #234
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Plenty of car will go 125mph. Not many "cruise" at 125mph. Most cars you are tired if you drive high speed for any length of time.

I will make you this bet. Take your hemi charger and see if how well you can "cruise" at over 125mph over a long distance. Lets give you an example. Munich to Hamburg. You will have 250+ miles of unlimited speed and around 100 miles of reduced speed. Every bit of the unlimited sections have other cars. You must slow down if a car is on front of you. You may even have to use the brakes hard. You might (probably) go through a section with rain. There are curves on the highways.

Actually drive at high speeds on highways and come back and tell us how driving at high speeds is.

And then take these old cars. Drive it from my house in the USA to lets say Aspen, going loveland pass, and back to Denver over independance pass. Go over loveland pass. You have to deal with winding roads, 2 11000 foot passes (or more depending upon route). At least through in a couple 10000ft passes. I would not hesitate to take a new mustang, charger, camaro over such a drive. Add fuel. That is it.
DanaT, I've done everything you said, in a '60 Corvette (also had the Corvette on the Autobahns and byways in Germany), In a semi, and over the pass west of Denver in a 67 Dart 6 cyl pulling a Uhaul trailer in a snow storm. It's all about what you're accustomed to..
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:07   #235
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I will consider this the most greatest muscle car era when Buick offer this generation version of the twin-turbo GNX.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:09   #236
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Nahhh I have driven one with the issues fixed for about 1500.the brakes need pads that's about all at first you can upgrade rotors later stock injectors will get you about x600 ish at the wheels. Very inexpensive suspension mods will get it launching like a beast and it looks better IMHO than the new ones. Tons of cheapest mods for that car.
Totally not talking about "launching", I'm talking about terrible, front tire eating under-steer.

And the brakes (for serious use) need more than rotors. They need cooling ducts, which has been the Mustang's Achilles heel for years now. Rotors, pads, DOT4 synthetic fluid are just a start. Recent BOSS Mustangs had brake cooling ducts....finally.

And the engine heat soak....I don't know. I haven't looked into it, but a larger radiator, a hood with cooling vents, and perhaps some other sort of mods, would help.

As far as looks, the interior between the 2005-2009 and 2010-2014 Mustangs are worlds apart.

But, it's your money. Hell, you would be better off with a 2011-2012 GT, instead of what you're looking at, for the money.

It's just damn hard to get around that huge, heavy, cast-iron motor up-front, over-heating itself.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:11   #237
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That's a really nice car, and you don't pass 10 of them on the way to work like the new Mustangs.
There's a damn good reason that current GTs are so popular. They are incredible cars for the money.

They're M3s at 1/2 the price, properly equipped, performance-wise.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:36   #238
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I will consider this the most greatest muscle car era when Buick offer this generation version of the twin-turbo GNX.
The 1987 GNX was a single turbo.

The Okie Corral

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There's a damn good reason that current GTs are so popular. They are incredible cars for the money.

They're M3s at 1/2 the price, properly equipped, performance-wise.
I like unique, not running with the herd.

Just my opinion.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:40   #239
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I like unique, not running with the herd.

Just my opinion.
Gotcha....

I'm into vehicle dynamics, I want a good (fun) car to drive.

But I do understand that each "car guy" likes their vehicle for their own reasons.
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Old 06-29-2013, 16:18   #240
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The cars today are better in almost every way. They are faster, safer, more relaiable and efficient. And look at the new Mustangs, Camaros, and Challenger. They are some increadibly good looking cars, but when compared to the old classics that inspired them, they just have no sole!

If you have the time and money, you can build your original muscle/pony car on new modern suspension, tires and put whatever drive train in you desire. Kind of like having the best of both worlds. Fuel injection is now available for anything.

Imagine a 69 Camaro with full Detroit Speed suspension, 540 big block for power and a 6 speed transmission. If you don't like the big block, you can go the LS route as well.
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Old 06-29-2013, 18:21   #241
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I think all 3 cars in the article are very nice cars. My mom owns a 13 Camaro, I used to own a 09 Mustang myself. I really do miss that car. I traded it off on something "practical".

The Challenger, I have no experience with, never even sat in one. However of all the muscle cars on the road today, the Challenger looks most bad-ass. I don't know about the reliability, or practical features, but Dodge really knocked it out of the park when it comes to appearance.
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:38   #242
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FWIW, I'll take new.

I had a '66 GTO back in the day. I've got a '13 Mustang, now. In between was nothing but economy cars and pickups.

The Mustang (a six!!) is faster, gets much better mileage, handles much better, stops WAAAY better and behaves itself nicely when not being pushed. Plus it's more comfortable and easier to drive in spite of having a 6 spd. manual where the Pontiac had a 4 speed.

But then, my cars are daily drivers, they don't go to the track, and they're driven gently/normally 99% of the time. I can't justify the expense of keeping some overpowered beast simply for cruising, racing, and bragging rights. So, what do I know?
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:01   #243
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Totally not talking about "launching", I'm talking about terrible, front tire eating under-steer.

And the brakes (for serious use) need more than rotors. They need cooling ducts, which has been the Mustang's Achilles heel for years now. Rotors, pads, DOT4 synthetic fluid are just a start. Recent BOSS Mustangs had brake cooling ducts....finally.

And the engine heat soak....I don't know. I haven't looked into it, but a larger radiator, a hood with cooling vents, and perhaps some other sort of mods, would help.

As far as looks, the interior between the 2005-2009 and 2010-2014 Mustangs are worlds apart.

But, it's your money. Hell, you would be better off with a 2011-2012 GT, instead of what you're looking at, for the money.

It's just damn hard to get around that huge, heavy, cast-iron motor up-front, over-heating itself.


Don't believe all you read unless you are road racing it, I'm not ,they don't suffer from heat soak.

That came from idiots running them back to back on the Dyno without proper airflow.

As I said nothing wrong with the brakes if you know how to drive they did have a clutch issue That will check to see if the owner completed theTSB repair.


Ant stand the looks of the new GT that rear is hideous
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:21   #244
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Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post

I like unique, not running with the herd.

Just my opinion.
The only reason for an image car like the old muscle cars is to be "cool". Go back and read some posts in this thread. The very definition of "cool" is to impress the heard.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:26   #245
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The only reason for an image car like the old muscle cars is to be "cool". Go back and read some posts in this thread. The very definition of "cool" is to impress the heard.
Maybe for some, I like them because they "feel" good to look at, remind me of a better time,
I felt good driving my 65 Cyclone.

I didn't care what anyone thought looking at me.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:37   #246
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'60 Corvette (also had the Corvette on the Autobahns and byways in Germany),
Go from:

47.585310, 7.907029

To Stuttgart. Tell me how well that 60 vette does compared to a modern 200hp car.

No matter how much BS you want to espouse, there is no comparison. CAN one drive with an old car, sure. But the topic of this thread is comparing old and new. There simply is NO comparison between a 1960 and 2013 vette. Nor a 2013 Mustang GT, Camaro SS, Charger, etc.

Drive those roads and tell me ONE, just ONE, area or performance where the old muscle car has the advantage.

And you probably drove the '60 vette on an autobahn in 1960 and are trying to measure performance against 1960s cars.

That 1960 had a top speed around 125-130mph.

http://www.corvette-web-central.com/...etopspeed.html

That isnt even competitive with a modern diesel family station wagon such as an E350 bluetec.
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Old 06-30-2013, 11:09   #247
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The Okie Corral

...only Jesus had taste and drove a 5th gen.

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Old 06-30-2013, 11:09   #248
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I owned '06 GT vert that I did a LOT of work on and loved driving it......right up until I picked up my '10 Plum Crazy Challenger Classic R/T. The difference in comfort and amenities was night and day. Then the '11 Challenger SRT came out with the 392 engine and it was a no brainer to upgrade to one.
There's no Mustang you could give me today that offers me what this car does. I could have bought anything out there, including the GT500, but before I'd do that, I'd rather supercharge my current ride.
Anyone that says the Challenger SRT is NOT a muscle car doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. They've either never actually driven one, is reading a magazine comparison, or if they did drive one, they wore their grandmother's driving hat with her seated in the back.
I don't hate on any of the big three domestic current offerings and respect them all, but 2 weeks ago my car dynoed 433.0 HP and 437.6 TQ at the rear wheels which is more than the SS and GT make at the crank and that kind of power is usable throughout the entire powerband.
I lived through the original muscle car era and I know how much fun they were. I also know how many went off the road the second a fast unexpected turn, or fast stop came around.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:23   #249
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DanaT, I wasn't comparing my 60 Vette to a modern car. Hell, my wife's Saturn Vue would probably out run that Corvette. You gave me a list of roads to drive and I said I'd driven most of them. What have I posted that makes me sound like a complete moron? There has been 54 years of development since that Vette of mine. All I have maintained is that the fifties and sixties cars were capable of more speed than the magazines indicate. In the NHRA Nationals in 1962 Hayden Proffit won S/S with a Chevy. Low 12's @114 mph.

I agree with all of you, the modern cars are better, safer: but I still like the old cars.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:25   #250
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It seems that many agree that they are better in many ways but just arnt the same thing as the classics.
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