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Old 06-19-2013, 15:48   #151
Mayhem like Me
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
And when crews on ships say the official line on what happened is not what they saw happen what happens?

A very close relative was on the liberty and his account of what happened is much different than the official version. He also has a purple heart from the attack.

Start with this. Show me any two crew members of the liberty that we re-assigned to the same post.

So please, go on, tell me about how the government can silence / discredit a ships crew. You do realize that once something is classified and "national security" that people are silenced under threat of imprisonment?
Define signifigant is he saying Israel did not do it.. Is he saying Israel knew it was us.. How credible is he where was he did he self aggrandizing his story at all... Put it out all out there so we can scrutinize his every move.

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Old 06-19-2013, 15:48   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
What makes you think the dummy test missile came from that type of ship?

As to how to cover it up?

Deny it and tell your crew to follow orders. That is how the military works. Pretty simple. National security. blah blah blah.
Yeah. Military types all just dummy up. Tell that to Manning, Snowden, etc.

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Are you really that naive?
No, but apparently you are.
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:50   #153
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Tell a boatload of 18-19 year-old kids to keep their mouths shut about an event so glaringly obvious as a suspect missile launch and you'll get a whole pile of drunken confessions at your next shore leave and a not-so-small number of "anonymous" calls and tips to local and national media.
I had a friend who was stationed on an Aegis class ship. He told me that when they did many classified operations, that civilians and other military would board the ship. They would transfer equipment onto the ship. All the classified stuff they never saw and testing occurred with almost all sailors below decks. They didn't allow them to watch testing of classified equipment that they didnt have a specific reason to see or interact with.

It doesnt take someone very smart to figure out to run a weapons test off a ship, you can have most sailors not see the test and are not involved int the testing. The easiest way is to send them below decks. These are not cruise ships with people out wandering the decks watching tests of new weapon systems.

So, no, the govt doesnt have to keep 300 sailors quiet about a test that occurred, and if they do want to keep them quiet, they can.
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:50   #154
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Define signifigant is he saying Israel did not do it.. Is he saying Israel knew it was us

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The latter.
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:53   #155
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The latter.
LMAO.. That's not news its called diplomacy we had to take that Line

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Old 06-19-2013, 15:58   #156
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There has long been a contingent in the aviation community that believes TWA 800 was shot down.

http://twa800.com/
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Old 06-19-2013, 16:00   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
I had a friend who was stationed on an Aegis class ship. He told me that when they did many classified operations, that civilians and other military would board the ship. They would transfer equipment onto the ship. All the classified stuff they never saw and testing occurred with almost all sailors below decks. They didn't allow them to watch testing of classified equipment that they didnt have a specific reason to see or interact with.

It doesnt take someone very smart to figure out to run a weapons test off a ship, you can have most sailors not see the test and are not involved int the testing. The easiest way is to send them below decks. These are not cruise ships with people out wandering the decks watching tests of new weapon systems.

So, no, the govt doesnt have to keep 300 sailors quiet about a test that occurred, and if they do want to keep them quiet, they can.
Looks like being told to shut up and follow orders didn't slow your friend down or keep him from talking one bit, did it?

Thanks for proving my point.
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Old 06-19-2013, 16:05   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
I had a friend who was stationed on an Aegis class ship. He told me that when they did many classified operations, that civilians and other military would board the ship. They would transfer equipment onto the ship. All the classified stuff they never saw and testing occurred with almost all sailors below decks. They didn't allow them to watch testing of classified equipment that they didnt have a specific reason to see or interact with.

It doesnt take someone very smart to figure out to run a weapons test off a ship, you can have most sailors not see the test and are not involved int the testing. The easiest way is to send them below decks. These are not cruise ships with people out wandering the decks watching tests of new weapon systems.

So, no, the govt doesnt have to keep 300 sailors quiet about a test that occurred, and if they do want to keep them quiet, they can.
And no one will ever hear a missile launch and no one will ever hear about the plane crashing into the sea near where they were.

You claim to be a smart man. I believe that. I also believe you are letting your baises run your thinking.
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Old 06-19-2013, 17:03   #159
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Does a 747 have rims?

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Yes. But they only use spinners. Less drag for take off.
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Old 06-19-2013, 17:12   #160
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
I had a friend who was stationed on an Aegis class ship. He told me that when they did many classified operations, that civilians and other military would board the ship. They would transfer equipment onto the ship. All the classified stuff they never saw and testing occurred with almost all sailors below decks. They didn't allow them to watch testing of classified equipment that they didnt have a specific reason to see or interact with.

It doesnt take someone very smart to figure out to run a weapons test off a ship, you can have most sailors not see the test and are not involved int the testing. The easiest way is to send them below decks. These are not cruise ships with people out wandering the decks watching tests of new weapon systems.

So, no, the govt doesnt have to keep 300 sailors quiet about a test that occurred, and if they do want to keep them quiet, they can.
I seriously question that and I base that upon 20+ years of military experience. You could not keep 300 Sailors quiet about a missile shot. Especially one that could be linked to the downing of a civilian airliner. What exactly did your friend do on a ship?

I'm not in the Navy but I have a lot of experience shooting at things. If someone told me to shoot a civilian airliner that posed no threat, I'd tell them to go pound sand. If I found out I mistaking engaged a civilian airliner, I couldn't live with myself for keeping it a secret. I don't think I'm the exception. That's the norm.
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Old 06-19-2013, 17:14   #161
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Check out actual eye witness accounts:


"We saw what appeared to be a flare going straight up. As a matter of fact,
we thought it was from a boat. It was a bright reddish-orange color. Once it
went into flames I knew that it wasn't a flare."
- Lou Desyron, Flight 800 eye-witness; ABC World News Sunday; 07/21/96.




"I looked up because it sounded like thunder. I kept looking trying to
figure out what it was. And that's when I saw a flare come off the water.
The flare, trailing orange flame, shot up roughly at a 45 degree angle, then
rapidly increased its angle of ascent. Then it appeared to strike
something. This was the strangest thing I ever saw. Everyone calls it a
'missile theory,' but when you see something, you know what you see, and I
didn't see a 'theory'."
- Tom Dougherty, Flight 800 eye-witness; interviewed on Hard Copy, 1996




"It was what we would best describe as a boat flare, a reddish object going
up. It went up and a few seconds later we saw an explosion in the sky. I
can't say if it came off shore or on shore. At first, we thought it was a
boat flare. It zigzagged a little. We thought it was strange. Then, several
seconds later, we saw an eruption of fire. We never heard anything. We saw a
fireball, and at that point we identified what was an aircraft. We could see
it fluttering down. We were the third boat on Long Island to report the
incident to the Coast Guard. It was something going up to it beforehand.
Yes, I saw flaming debris go down. Something attracted us to the area before
it exploded. And even my wife and my oldest daughter, we all were witnesses
to it. There definitely was something there first before the aircraft went
down."
- Donald Eick, Flight 800 eye-witness; October 20, 1997; The
Press-Enterprise, Riverside, CA.




"I picked it up three seconds before it turned into a bright white ball,
which split. I thought it was fireworks. And then I didn't know what to
think because from the white ball, I saw two wide orange bands of light fall
down, obviously the fuel igniting. I'll lay my ass on the table and tell the
president or the FBI, and someone can hypnotize me: There was no way that
red light was descending. It was ascending. It made contact with what turned
out to be that airplane and made a white bright light and then split in two.
If I were in a courtroom and the prosecutor says I've got an eyewitness,
then I become a trump card. We're not just one witness but 135 or more
strong. I saw something hit the right side of the plane. My opinion was it
blew the wing off on impact. I assumed something went through the airplane,
like behind first class and into the wing. My honest opinion, my gut
feeling, is that we have the most brilliant people in the world and the best
technology, [and] if they've been on scene for a year and they've not come
up with something, as a critical thinker I have to ask, could they be
covering up something?"
- William Gallagher, fisherman from N.J. who witnessed Flight 800 crash;
October 20, 1997, The Press-Enterprise




"[The FBI] said, 'Are you sure you didn't see something going down and not
going up?' I said, 'No....Gosh sakes I ain't that stupid. I ought to be able
to tell if something is going up in the air or going down in the air. No,
and I said I'm not changing my mind about it. I'll stick to that until I
die. I said I saw something going up and I said there was no question in my
mind. I said I'm telling you what I saw."
- Roland Penney, Flight 800 eye-witness; quoted from an interview with Cdr.
William Donaldson presented at the AIM conference, October 18, 1997.




"It looked like a big skyrocket going up. The flash looked like a rocket
launch at a fireworks display".
- Paul Runyan, Flight 800 eye-witness; N.Y. Daily News, 11/09/96




"More than 150 credible witnesses - including several scientists and
business executives - have told the FBI and military experts they saw a
missile destroy TWA 800. 'Some of these people are extremely, extremely
credible,' a top federal official said. 'When we asked what they saw and
where they saw it, the witnesses out east pointed to the west, and the
people to the west pointed to the east'."
- The New York Post, September 22, 1996.




"Almost due south [of the helicopter], there was a hard white light, like
burning pyrotechnics, in level flight. I was trying to figure out what it
was. It was the wrong color for flares. It struck an object coming from the
right and made it explode."
- Capt. Chris Baur, eye-witness to Flight 800 crash; July 1996.




"This is either a train wreck in the sky, or an explosive device - mid-air,
outside the plane. The measurements [from the flight recorder] indicate
there was an explosion - a big explosion - outside the cockpit."
- Navy Cmdr. William Donaldson (ret.); a former plane crash investigator;
Louisville Courier-Journal, 1-9-98




"My God! Somebody's shooting at that airplane!"
- Crew of a British Airways jet flying behind Flight 800 whom radioed to air
traffic control; July 17, 1996.




"I know what I saw. I saw an ordnance explosion. And whatever I saw, the
explosion of the fuel was not the initiator of the event. It was one of the
results. Something happened before that which was the initiator of the
disaster.''
- Frederick C. Meyer, An Air National Guard helicopter pilot who witnessed
the explosion of TWA Flight 800; 7/29/97; Riverside Press.




"I know what I saw, I saw several fires go across the sky. One hit the plane
at the tail and the second hit at the front, just before the wings. The fire
came from both ends and met in the middle and exploded. Then the nose
dropped, hung there for a minute. I understand that when a plane bursts into
flames the flames fall, but this was a fire going up towards the plane."
- Barbara Pacholk, Flight 800 eye-witness; November 19, 1997; The New York
Post.




"We know what we saw. We weren't drunk. I looked up and my immediate
response was, I never saw an alert flare like that. It was projecting upward
with a stream of smoke behind. I don't think our accounts will be reflected
in the final version [of the FBI report]. I have a hard time believing that
the FBI believes its conclusions. I don't believe that the truth is ever
going to come out."
- Jim Naples, Flight 800 eye-witness; November 24, 1997, The New York
Observer, (p.16)




"C.I.A. analysts have determined that the eyewitness sightings thought to be
that of a missile actually took place after the first of several explosions
on the aircraft. Our technical analysis concludes that what these
eyewitnesses saw was in fact the burning [Boeing] 747 in various stages of
crippled flight, not a missile."
- C.I.A. spokeswoman Carolyn Osborn - September 24, 1997

No they didn't. Click here for why the CIA video was a lie.



"She [Ms. Osborn] said they were mistaken in what they saw. That's not very
professional, and its not the way to dispute eyewitness statements. Those
witness statements should be part of the public record. And they [the
F.B.I.] have to come up with a credible scenario of why the eyewitnesses saw
what they saw."
- Paul Marcone - Press Secretary to Rep. James Traficant - House Aviation
Subcommittee




"It's (the C.I.A.) message to the eyewitnesses: Shut up, you didn't see
anything."
- Philip Weiss - The New York Observer - November 24, 1997




"All evidence would point to a missile. All those witnesses who saw a streak
that hit the airplane...you have to assume its a missile. In an
investigation like this, you can't overlook anything."
- Adm. Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of The Joint Chiefs Of Staff;
Louisville Courier-Journal, 1-9-98






Naneen Levine
"I thought it was something on the beach going straight up. The red dot
went up like this, sort of curved. It came to a point where I thought
little fireworks were going to come down or just fade and be a flare."



Capt. Chris Bauer - Airborne
"I saw a track of light and saw a hard explosion, then another
explosion," - "told officials, repeatedly that I thought a missile hit
the plane."



Sven Faret, Private Pilot - Airborne
"Pin flash of light near the shore" - "It looked like a rocket launch at
a fireworks display. My first impression was that the National Guard had shot down one of
their own planes."



Roland Penney
". . . a pencil thin white trail rising like a Grucci fireworks in the
middle of the night sky, until it turned into a big ball of just plain
white. Seconds later, as the ball of light descended, it exploded into
an orange-red fireball."



D.A. Walsh
"It is No rumor about sabotage or a missile. Having lived on Long Island
for 24 years and only 8 miles from the crash site I am familiar with
the area and too many of us saw what happened that nite. I believe that
someone is trying to cover up for mistakes."



From: C.C.Jordan@worldnet.att.net (C.C. Jordan) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997
02:55:29 GMT Message-ID: <33C59B43.10074841@NETNEWS.WORLDNET.ATT.NET> I live
on eastern Long Island. I am good friends with several of the Air Force
flyers out of West Hampton. An USAF Blackhawk was flying (training) only
three miles away from Flight 800 on a heading to observe the crash. The Plane
Commander, a Major, said, in my presence, that he saw what he believed was a
missile, coming from sea level go up and explode. He stated this to NTSB
investigators and to Air Force debriefers. He is a gulf war veteran and has
seen many night time SAM launches, both shoulder launched and fixed sight. No
one has yet to refute his observation. Could he be mistaken? Sure. Is it
likely he is mistaken? No. NTSB and the FAA have no **real** answer for the
crash, or do they? ....By the way, This guy was one of the pilots who flew
the Blackhawks 650 miles out into the atlantic to rescue stranded seamen,
refueling several times from a C-130. The Air force believes him. They are
the 106th Rescue Wing flying C-130 and Blackhawk aircraft. Top notch
professionals.




11-9-96 N.Y. Daily News
"Red meteor with a smoke trail"
Paul Angelides



Olympic Airline Engineer
"Suddenly, I saw in the fog to my left, toward the ocean, a small flame
rising quickly towards the sky. Before I realized it, I saw this flame
become huge. My first impression is that it was a flare shot off a
boat."



Colonel Stratemeier - Pilot
"said he had seen what appeared to be the trail of a shoulder fired SAM
ending in a flash on the 747"



Heidi Krieger
"I think it;s a missile or friendly fire or something like that."
(She took picture from her boat, squiggley white line in photo, FBI took it and negs)



Richard Grauer (25 yr old Fishing Tackle sales)
"It was a thin trail of smoke going up fast - then there was this huge
pink ball of fire"



Patrick Grant - 02:27pm Jul 19, 1997 ET (#300 of 321)

I live on Long Island. And there were more than a hundred people
out here including cops, firemen and National Guard who saw
something streak into the sky before the plane came down. Now
experts can tell you what would of, or should of, or could of
happened. But an eye witness will tell you what really happened.
And when a hundred people see something, its not an illusion. I
believe the investigators are lying when they say they don't know
what happened. And I'd like to see them be forced to take
polygraphs. And even those who believe that the government isn't
running a cover up should support giving the investigators lie
detectors. We all want the truth, don't we?
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Old 06-19-2013, 17:15   #162
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You've gotta be ****ting me.... I've got soldiers that can't be trusted to not go to certain bars without being reminded weekly and then they still get caught by the courtesy patrols they know are running...

Yeah "don't any of you sailors talk about at missile we just launched" on something as high profile that a sailor may get to do once or twice in an enlistment is gonna work great. Let alone have bored pissed off 19 year old sailor joe schmuktelo who hates the Navy because they make him clean the head see the news conspiracy about a missile at his ship fired.
Exactly. You're not keeping them quiet. Not in a million years.
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Old 06-19-2013, 18:11   #163
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Exactly. You're not keeping them quiet. Not in a million years.



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Old 06-19-2013, 18:30   #164
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The answer everyone is looking for is simple. We will never know.

No matter who comes forward and says whatever, we will be told whatever the government wants us to believe. Same as 9/11, same as sandy hook.

The ones that believe it are sheep and everyone else, conspiracy theorist's.
Don't forget Katrina. And the need to hit the Northeast with Sandy to make the po people of NO forget the weather machine theory. Think about it. You use a weather machine to make people believe you DON'T have a weather machine. Genius!

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So was the missile shot by Muslim extremist terrorists? Or was it a false flag operation to drum up fear to solidify our defense budget? Thats the real question.
Did any rappers get filmed stepping on the false flag?
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Old 06-19-2013, 18:32   #165
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The true colors have really shown through on this thread.
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Old 06-19-2013, 18:43   #166
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Guess we will see what the evidence is and if they can make a case.
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Old 06-19-2013, 18:50   #167
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Old 06-19-2013, 18:53   #168
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Don't forget Katrina. And the need to hit the Northeast with Sandy to make the po people of NO forget the weather machine theory. Think about it. You use a weather machine to make people believe you DON'T have a weather machine. Genius!



Did any rappers get filmed stepping on the false flag?
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Old 06-19-2013, 18:53   #169
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So was the missile shot by Muslim extremist terrorists? Or was it a false flag operation to drum up fear to solidify our defense budget? Thats the real question.
Well, since no muslim group has taken credit, which is their motive for such actions,

and

the Government did not drag it out as a case of terrorism to "drum up fear" but rather concluded it was an accident

I fail to see that your post makes sense.
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Old 06-19-2013, 18:57   #170
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The Agent Mulder contingent is strong.
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Old 06-19-2013, 19:00   #171
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This happened before I woke up to our Govt. hiding the truth from the public. But it looks like there were a lot of eye witnesses to this event. Surprising they haven't been killed off like all the 9/11 witnesses whose story didn't jive with the "official" report, for some reason they all died. Like our Govt. killing SEAL team 6 to hide the truth.
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Old 06-19-2013, 19:01   #172
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Old 06-19-2013, 19:02   #173
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This happened before I woke up to our Govt. hiding the truth from the public. But it looks like there were a lot of eye witnesses to this event. Surprising they haven't been killed off like all the 9/11 witnesses whose story didn't jive with the "official" report, for some reason they all died. Like our Govt. killing SEAL team 6 to hide the truth.
Double up the folds and use HD Reynolds only.
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Old 06-19-2013, 19:28   #174
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"I looked up because it sounded like thunder. I kept looking trying to figure out what it was. And that's when I saw a flare come off the water. The flare, trailing orange flame, shot up roughly at a 45 degree angle, then rapidly increased its angle of ascent. Then it appeared to strike something. This was the strangest thing I ever saw. Everyone calls it a 'missile theory,' but when you see something, you know what you see, and I
didn't see a 'theory'."
- Tom Dougherty, Flight 800 eye-witness; interviewed on Hard Copy, 1996

This highlights the problem with accepting eyewitness testimony. After he heard the explosion and then looked up, he couldn't possibly have seen the missile going up to shoot down the plane. It defies physical reality.
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Old 06-19-2013, 19:30   #175
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Posts: 1,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless28 View Post
The Agent Mulder contingent is strong.
So, I don't have a strong opinion either way. I don't trust our government(especially in light of the most recent events) but that doesn't mean I'm a conspiracy theorist.

That being said, I honestly have no idea what really happened but I'd like to know why you are so convinced that all the eyewitness accounts are wrong.

Seriously, why are you so butthurt just because some people in this thread refuse to accept what the government tells us?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRT76 View Post
That is where the rub is. The anti-gun liberals will never understand being strong enough in your convictions to take a life, or give your own.
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anti-conspiracy kooks, reynolds heavy duty, truthers lol
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42