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Old 06-19-2013, 13:39   #126
tsmo1066
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Originally Posted by Anon1 View Post
Are you implying that everyone on the ship would be on deck at the time of a missile launch?
Of course not, why would they need to be?

A ship is a floating can, and there is no way to launch a super-sonic ballistic missile from a destroyer or cruiser without EVERYONE on the ship hearing it and knowing exactly what was just launched.

From that point on, all it takes is a bit of common sense to put two and two together. "Hmmm, we launched a missile on the night Flight 800 blew up and we did so just two minutes before that plane went down..."

Nobody has done that because no Navy ships were in the area firing missiles at the time, and if one was, there's no way in hell the Navy could possibly keep all 350+ crew-members quiet about it for long.

Remember, this is the same government that couldn't even keep Monica's blue dress under wraps.
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Old 06-19-2013, 13:45   #127
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How does one "cover up" a ship-borne missile launch that would have to have been witnessed by at least 350 Navy crew-members, most of them 18 and 19 year old kids?
Pensions.....Pensions.
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Old 06-19-2013, 13:50   #128
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So was the missile shot by Muslim extremist terrorists? Or was it a false flag operation to drum up fear to solidify our defense budget? Thats the real question.
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:02   #129
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.......anything else is just a bunch of conspiracy theories espoused by tin-foil hat wearing nut-jobs.......
....who were sexually abused as children, had their butt kicked by a bureaucrat, or had their wife\girlfriend stolen by a bureaucrat.
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:08   #130
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Originally Posted by Anon1 View Post
Are you implying that everyone on the ship would be on deck at the time of a missile launch?
Ship would be secured at General Quarters, then a missile fired.


Makes a bit of noise.... Hard to get away without someone knowing it happened.
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:13   #131
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Pensions.....Pensions.
So all the sailors on board have stayed in long enough or are planning to stay long enough to collect a pension? Not one of them got out and isn't getting anything?
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:15   #132
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Originally Posted by tsmo1066 View Post
Of course not, why would they need to be?

A ship is a floating can, and there is no way to launch a super-sonic ballistic missile from a destroyer or cruiser without EVERYONE on the ship hearing it and knowing exactly what was just launched.

From that point on, all it takes is a bit of common sense to put two and two together. "Hmmm, we launched a missile on the night Flight 800 blew up and we did so just two minutes before that plane went down..."

Nobody has done that because no Navy ships were in the area firing missiles at the time, and if one was, there's no way in hell the Navy could possibly keep all 350+ crew-members quiet about it for long.

Remember, this is the same government that couldn't even keep Monica's blue dress under wraps.
Of course they could, just ask PW about the thousands involved in the 9/11 conspiracy... they've maintained their silence for over a decade...
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:16   #133
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So all the sailors on board have stayed in long enough or are planning to stay long enough to collect a pension? Not one of them got out and isn't getting anything?
Whackos don't like logic. Stop that.
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:17   #134
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Philippine Airlines Flight 143 exploded due to a fuel tank explosion caused by a wiring issue. It was a 737 (and on the ground) but the principle is the same.

Avianca Flight 203 (a 727) was destroyed by a fuel tank explosion precipitated by an on-board bomb, but there was said to be no evidence at all of an on board bomb explosion on TWA 800.
To be clear, I am not saying that FLT 800 was blown up by a terrorist bomb. My thoughts on this are more a curiosity based on some outside factors than a conspiracy theory.

I find it interesting that Yousef's Phillipine Airlines attack, which was a test run for a simultaneous attacks on over a dozen airliners, focused on the center fuel tank, and occurred in relatively close proximity (1995) to the FLT 800 incident (1996) .

Yousef also attempted to blow up two US flights in midair the same year, but his plan fell through when his co-conspirator, who had the assembled suitcase bombs at the airport, got cold feet.

Several months after these failed attempts, a US airliner blows up in midair, due to an explosion in the center fuel tank (which is still a very rare type of accident, even with your examples).

It may very well be nothing more than a coincidence. And absent evidence of an on board explosion, that is all it will ever be. I do not think that the FBI or NTSB would have covered up that evidence had it been found, but from past experience, the FBI is not quick to back off on a theory once it sinks its teeth into it (Richard Jewell and Stephen Hatfill, for example).

I'll just say that despite the phenomenal forensic job that was done to piece this accident together, the catastrophic destruction of the aircraft and the scope and nature of the debris field put it within the realm of possibility that some evidence was not recovered.





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Old 06-19-2013, 14:19   #135
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I could buy a terrorist bomb on board if there was good irrefutable evidence.

A MANPAD by a terrorist could have happened but it would have been a very lucky shot. They would have been better off firing it off from within a short distance of an airport. Why go through the effort of getting into a boat and trying to line up nearly exactly with the flight path when you can crank one off on land near an airport and hop into car and get lost in the largest metro area in the US?

Launching a missile off a Navy vessel is just impossible. The only way you can think it is possible is of you shut off your brain.
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:23   #136
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The problem, is that I am objective.


It wasn't a MANPAD, and the only system in the neighborhood that could have made that shot, was a USN Ticonderoga class Guided Missile Cruiser, and if she'd fired a missile that night, there would have been about 364 crew members who'd have known exactly what happened.

Six guys, out of how many investigators, came up with this, and they waited till they retired to spill the beans?


No, they're looking to cash in. If they'd really known something, they'd have quit their jobs and said it long ago.
Common sense wins the day..

Were they lead investigators ? Or, guys picking through scraps ..

Vetting is in order.
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:27   #137
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The AEIGS defense missile system was being tested at that time off Long Island. The missile that hit the plane was supposed to be the missile that was to be shot down, but instead it hit the plane.

No way the US Government could allow that to be revealed, thus the cover-up.

Pretty simple explanation.

But, of course, the government never lies, especially when it comes to military self defense issues regarding national security.
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:29   #138
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What difference, if any between A-10 and 747 rims?

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Old 06-19-2013, 14:40   #139
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And so why wouldnt location of a warhead (or any explosive) change the outcome?
Simple explanation from my training using explosives.

Explosives INSiDE something blow it out look for outward damage... Explosives outside something cut it and cause push damage , not blowing stuff to smithereens ...

It's physics. When you contain an explosive and let it build pressure it blows out the vessel at the weak points, blowing it apart..
It takes a very large high explosive detonation to cut and displace metal from the outside ..

Look at the pictures you can slearly see where the skin of the plane toward the cabin is blown out from the structure along seams, indicating a non HE detonation of something like a fuel tank. The real evidence in this case shows any investigator that claims a missile too be an incompetent boob.
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:50   #140
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Simple explanation from my training using explosives.

Explosives INSiDE something blow it out look for outward damage... Explosives outside something cut it and cause push damage , not blowing stuff to smithereens ...

It's physics. When you contain an explosive and let it build pressure it blows out the vessel at the weak points, blowing it apart..
It takes a very large high explosive detonation to cut and displace metal from the outside ..
And to head off the next question AA missles don't hit the target they explode in proximity hoping the blast and shrapnel cause enough damage .
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Old 06-19-2013, 14:56   #141
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What difference, if any between A-10 and 747 rims?

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A-10 rims don't be choppin' like 747 do.


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Old 06-19-2013, 15:01   #142
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The first test flight of a SM-3, the anti ballistic missile missile, wasn't till 99.
No one said is it was the SM-3.

But thanks for the straw man!!
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:05   #143
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How does one "cover up" a ship-borne missile launch that would have to have been witnessed by at least 350 Navy crew-members, most of them 18 and 19 year old kids?
What makes you think the dummy test missile came from that type of ship?

As to how to cover it up?

Deny it and tell your crew to follow orders. That is how the military works. Pretty simple. National security. blah blah blah.

Are you really that naive?
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:08   #144
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Not sure if I follow you on that one. Nearly every story I've read about Flight 800 has included mention of the eyewitness accounts of streaks. As many others have mentioned, however, these eyewitness accounts are to be expected given the flight pattern of the aircraft after the explosion. The tail-heavy craft was climbing and burning post-explosion until it eventually broke up. Eyewitnesses that heard the explosion would have looked up and seen what appeared to be a streak moving upward in the sky.
Given that light travels faster than sound if it was sound that caused them to look wouldn't it be more probable, that the explosion that created the sound, occurred before the streaks, and may have caused them?

Pretty hard to hear the sound of the explosion and look up to see the missile still on it's way to the target.

More likely the first debris blowing outward and the motion of the plane created the illusion.
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:18   #145
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No one said is it was the SM-3.

But thanks for the straw man!!
You've gotta be ****ting me.... I've got soldiers that can't be trusted to not go to certain bars without being reminded weekly and then they still get caught by the courtesy patrols they know are running...

Yeah "don't any of you sailors talk about at missile we just launched" on something as high profile that a sailor may get to do once or twice in an enlistment is gonna work great. Let alone have bored pissed off 19 year old sailor joe schmuktelo who hates the Navy because they make him clean the head see the news conspiracy about a missile at his ship fired.
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:20   #146
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What makes you think the dummy test missile came from that type of ship?

As to how to cover it up?

Deny it and tell your crew to follow orders. That is how the military works. Pretty simple. National security. blah blah blah.

Are you really that naive?
The fact that you use dummy and naive in your post is very appropriate. When I take people's statements I call that foreshadowing.

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Old 06-19-2013, 15:34   #147
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No one said is it was the SM-3.

But thanks for the straw man!!
You have no idea of what you speek.
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:36   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
What makes you think the dummy test missile came from that type of ship?

As to how to cover it up?

Deny it and tell your crew to follow orders. That is how the military works. Pretty simple. National security. blah blah blah.

Are you really that naive?
That's not how the military works at all. Just look at the Wikileaks scandal, the recent testimony about safety issues in the F22 Fighter (where pilots broke ranks with their official orders to openly discuss oxygen system issues in the F22) and a host of other occurances.

Tell a boatload of 18-19 year-old kids to keep their mouths shut about an event so glaringly obvious as a suspect missile launch and you'll get a whole pile of drunken confessions at your next shore leave and a not-so-small number of "anonymous" calls and tips to local and national media.

On your other note, "dummy test missiles" have to be fired from platforms, and one as large as what would be used in an interceptor test can't be shoulder-fired or launched from a small vehicle. Only a ship or a large launch vehicle (the kind that couldn't possibly escape unnoticed on any American freeway) can throw those sort of intermediate ballistic missiles around.
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:43   #149
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You mean the Iran Air flight shot down by the Navy?

You think an entire crew has remained silent?
And when crews on ships say the official line on what happened is not what they saw happen what happens?

A very close relative was on the liberty and his account of what happened is much different than the official version. He also has a purple heart from the attack.

Start with this. Show me any two crew members of the liberty that we re-assigned to the same post.

So please, go on, tell me about how the government can silence / discredit a ships crew. You do realize that once something is classified and "national security" that people are silenced under threat of imprisonment?
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Old 06-19-2013, 15:47   #150
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And when crews on ships say the official line on what happened is not what they saw happen what happens?

A very close relative was on the liberty and his account of what happened is much different than the official version. He also has a purple heart from the attack.

Start with this. Show me any two crew members of the liberty that we re-assigned to the same post.

So please, go on, tell me about how the government can silence / discredit a ships crew. You do realize that once something is classified and "national security" that people are silenced under threat of imprisonment?
Yeah. That sure stopped that guy working for the NSA.
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