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Old 06-14-2013, 18:53   #1
Silas.soule
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US History Without Mention of Freemasonry?

Too bad they don't teach about freemasonry in more American history classes. Once upon a time, one President after another was a Freemason, and many if not most of the founders were. Mason Ben Franklin went to France and helped initiate Voltaire into a lodge. He also used the Masonic network to recruit 2 Masons with military experience: France's Lafayette and a guy named Von Steuben who was from what would later become Germany. Masonry was a big part of overthrowing the established order in Europe. The established order equaled royalty and state religion.

I think there is a reason Freemasonry is omitted from classes:

It's a touchy topic! At the time of the nation's founding, few saw any conflict between Christianity and Freemasonry. The immigration of millions of Catholics changed that. Also, conservatism itself changed.

Some say the USA is a Masonic project.

1) The first thing in the charter of freemasonry is a call for religious tolerance.
2) This, plus the desire to not repeat the problems Europe encountered when government and religion were mixed led the founders to separate church and state. This doesn't mean they were anti-Christian, just that they felt it GOOD for both religion and government to be separate.
3) At least one Pope decreed that any Catholic becoming a Mason was excommunicated. At the time, Catholicism was accustomed to being the state religion in large swaths of Europe, and did not like the new experiment overseas. The only part of the American revolution never tried anywhere before was separation of government from religion.
4) Masons helped fuel the French revolution, and who opposed that revolution? Royalty and the church.

There you have it, in my opinion. The animosity between Freemasonry and Roman Catholicism makes the topic of Freemasonry's role in the founding a touchy topic, and Protestants who dislike secular government do not value what Freemasons created. Anyone have other theories?

What is to become of a nation that doesn't learn a part of its history? What is to become of a nation in which many people consider a group that was essential to the founding of the republic a bad thing?

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-...ularism-part-i

Last edited by Silas.soule; 06-14-2013 at 19:14..
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Old 06-14-2013, 19:05   #2
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Being an historian, but not a Mason, or a Christian, I think my opinion is balanced from an historical perspective and I agree with you.
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Old 06-14-2013, 19:20   #3
Silas.soule
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Being an historian, but not a Mason, or a Christian, I think my opinion is balanced from an historical perspective and I agree with you.
Thanks. I'm a former Christian, and son of a Mason. With a BA in history.
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Old 06-14-2013, 19:25   #4
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Thanks. I'm a former Christian, and son of a Mason. With a BA in history.
Well if you want to carry the masonic history a couple of steps further you should examine the effects of the Freemasons on the cities and a politics of the western cities and communities.
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Old 06-15-2013, 13:07   #5
Silas.soule
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Well if you want to carry the masonic history a couple of steps further you should examine the effects of the Freemasons on the cities and a politics of the western cities and communities.
You mean good, bad, or both? I'm open minded, so I'll check out anything.

Say, I just found this from The Holocaust Museum, about Nazi persecution of Masons. Seems Adolph & Crew thought Masons were in with the Jews.

Well, considering both favored Democracy and free trade, and were international in nature, this isn't surprising.

You know, I've heard 2 Americans talk as if Masonry was awful. One was a former prosecutor who told me he'd look for Masonic rings on the hands of prospective jurors, figuring they'd be anti-Catholic. Another was a professor at a public university who just said to me, "Masons. Bad. Bad." That's all pretty sad, considering we'd never have become a nation without 'em. Heck, without the secular USA, the Nazis would have de-Judified The Vatican, turning Catholicism into something else altogether, the way China's government appoints the bishops to the Chinese Catholic church. Afterall, Jesus was one of them.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10007187

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Old 06-15-2013, 13:22   #6
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Thanks. I'm a former Christian, and son of a Mason. With a BA in history.
I'm in the Scottish Rite. The Masonic influence was a positive thing in the development of our nation. Thanks for posting your comments and observations.
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Old 06-15-2013, 13:39   #7
countrygun
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Originally Posted by Silas.soule View Post
You mean good, bad, or both? I'm open minded, so I'll check out anything.

Say, I just found this from The Holocaust Museum, about Nazi persecution of Masons. Seems Adolph & Crew thought Masons were in with the Jews.

Well, considering both favored Democracy and free trade, and were international in nature, this isn't surprising.

You know, I've heard 2 Americans talk as if Masonry was awful. One was a former prosecutor who told me he'd look for Masonic rings on the hands of prospective jurors, figuring they'd be anti-Catholic. Another was a professor at a public university who just said to me, "Masons. Bad. Bad." That's all pretty sad, considering we'd never have become a nation without 'em. Heck, without the secular USA, the Nazis would have de-Judified The Vatican, turning Catholicism into something else altogether, the way China's government appoints the bishops to the Chinese Catholic church. Afterall, Jesus was one of them.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10007187
Many of the communities in the west, particularly along the coast were founded or helped along by the commonality of the masonic experience and the bond between members. Too many people like to color that as "evil" but that comes from a fringe "conspiracy theory" attitude IMO. A common bond was necessary for growth and development especially "on a frontier". Folks tend to forget that the first "pilgrims" had a strong commonality.

I compiled biographies of many of our early founders in this region and, in going through their writings, it was quite common to find them establishing business connections across the region and casually mentioning in their writings that the other person was a Mason. The "Carpenters" (which in the day were also the architects and designers) were strongly Masonic. It still had some "trade guild" aspects. NOT a "union" but a guild of tradesmen with and educational apprenticeship quality.

Last edited by countrygun; 06-16-2013 at 15:06..
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Old 06-15-2013, 16:01   #8
jtull7
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Would you have schools teach about the Jaycees? Rotary? The American Legion? How about the Moose Lodge? Fraternal Order of Eagles?
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Old 06-15-2013, 16:06   #9
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Would you have schools teach about the Jaycees? Rotary? The American Legion? How about the Moose Lodge? Fraternal Order of Eagles?
If the Founders had been members in such a percentage as they were Masons I think it would be a part of history that should get a mention. Having belonged to two of those myself I can say that their mention of "faith" and a "creator" is strangely similar to the non-denominational view of the Masons that pre-date them by centuries.
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Old 06-15-2013, 16:51   #10
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I was a history teacher. I am a Mason and a Christian. I think you are right on. I think Masonic teaching have had a very positive influence on governments all over the world. The Philippine revolt against the Spanish was lead by Masons and there is much Masonic symbolism in their flag. Many free nations have Masonic principles in their constitutions because of founding leaders who were Masons.

Masonry teaches toleration and the brotherhood of all men under the all seeing eye of a divine creator. Regardless of who, what or how a man worships. Advancement in the arts and sciences to beautify the world and improve mans estate on earth. Honest dealings with all men under a framework of law. And charity to those unable to care for themselves.

Nor bad ideas for a government to follow.
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Old 06-15-2013, 19:27   #11
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This documentary presents Masonic history in the U.S.
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Old 06-15-2013, 19:34   #12
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This documentary presents Masonic history in the U.S.
http://youtu.be/MG1x6Q9udzs
I may not have gotten to the correct video. I was confronted with a series of "Inside the Masonic conspiracy" type videos.

The whole series ties them very clearly to the illuminati, the Bildebergs, The grassy knoll, Chemtrails and 9/11, why it's clearly irrefutable


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Old 06-15-2013, 20:26   #13
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and the whole series ties them very clearly to the illuminati, the Bildebergs, The grassy knoll, Chemtrails and 9/11, why it's clearly irrefutable

Did "we" watch the same documentary?
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Old 06-15-2013, 20:33   #14
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Did "we" watch the same documentary?
I had to click on the header to get it to pop up on my browser and got taken to a bunch of Masonic conspiracy videos. It may be my fault for using a browser program from "Bubba's Burger and Browser Barn" .

I'll edit my post to reflect that.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:59   #15
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I'm in the Scottish Rite.....
Well, that explains a lot!
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:09   #16
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Now...don't be mean. You'll be working for us soon.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:40   #17
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Now...don't be mean. You'll be working for us soon.
I bet you typed that with your fez on.
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Old 06-16-2013, 14:22   #18
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Originally Posted by Snowman92D View Post
I'm in the Scottish Rite. The Masonic influence was a positive thing in the development of our nation. Thanks for posting your comments and observations.
I'm Scots , and I've never had a mason work for free.
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Old 06-16-2013, 14:28   #19
Snowman92D
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I bet you typed that with your fez on.
The Shriners wear the fez hats.

You have to be either York Rite or Scottish Rite to be one, but I never could warm up to their program, or afford their dues.

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Old 06-16-2013, 14:29   #20
Snowman92D
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I'm Scots , and I've never had a mason work for free.
Well....you of all people would know the Scots have some pretty strange rites.
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Old 06-16-2013, 14:40   #21
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To be honest, as a complete outsider, I think that part of the reason is just the "weird"-ness of it all.

I attended a Masonic funeral and it seemed pretty kooky. People can be easily put off by ritual.

Let me add that I have no issues with Masons and to the extent of my understanding I think it is a great organization and from this thread it seems like we owe them/you all a lot.
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Old 06-16-2013, 15:04   #22
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I agree with OP.
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