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Old 06-10-2013, 22:44   #1
freakshow10mm
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My commercial load data

Some people have been PMing me asking about loads for service calibers and such. Instead of sending out several PMs, I'll just post here. Some cartridges I only loaded one bullet type or use one powder type and charge for multiple bullets. Then there's the "magic 6" that covers a half dozen load in two of my favorite cartridges. Other than the .45 ACP I don't load these anymore. No secrets and anyone can duplicate my loads. I'm just a handloader with an FFL, nothing special. Here goes:

.380 ACP- .980 OAL (.965 for Ruger LCP)
100gr Berry's 3.2gr W231/HP38 850fps

9mm Luger - 1.125 OAL
115gr 5.5gr WSF 1150fps
124gr 5.0gr WSF 1050fps
147gr 4.0gr WSF 900fps

.40 S&W - 1.125 OAL
180gr 5.7gr WSF 950fps

10mm Auto - 1.250 OAL
180gr 6.0gr WSF 970fps
180gr 9.2gr LS 1250fps

.45 ACP - 1.250 OAL
200gr LSWC 6.0gr WSF 870fps
230gr FMJ 6.0gr WSF 850fps
230gr LTC 6.0gr WSF 850FPS 1.185 OAL

.223 Remington - 2.250 OAL
55gr FMJ 24.5gr TAC 2675fps 16"
77gr OTM 23.8gr IMR 8208 XBR 2850fps 24" This is over published load by 0.6gr. Work up carefully.
77gr OTM 21.6gr H322 2700fps 24"

Powder notes:

W231/HP38: They are the same exact powder. This is the best powder for the .380 ACP and I've tried all of them extensively.

WSF: No secret that's my service pistol powder choice. Works well from 9mm to 45 ACP. Similar burn rate to Unique, #5, and HS6. Great with lead, flows well, easy on the budget. I call this a ball version of Unique. Everything like it but WSF meters better. Otherwise I'd use Unique and save a bit of money because on my end an 8lb keg of Unique is $100 versus $125 for WSF.

I'll group the .223 powders to explain it this way. The best ball powder, other than military pulldown/surplus H335 stuff, is TAC. 24.5gr with any brand 55gr FMJ will cycle any AR15 with any barrel length or gas system, even the cheap crap out there. That's my trainer load. If you have a carbine class where you're shooting 1,000 to 1,500 in a weekend, that's the load you want. Clean, reliable, and accurate for the purpose.

When you move into "match" type long range bullets, ball powder isn't going to cut it. The best powder type is short grain extruded and this is where H322 and IMR 8028 shine. Clean burning (completely in the barrel), meters like a ball powder, readily available in most parts (everyone flocks to Varget or H335). H322 often gets scolded for being a fast powder but it will take the 77gr to 1,000 yards very well. Had customers with gas guns and bolt guns never complain about that load. The newer rendition of 8028 is, IMO, the perfect powder for long range .223. I really can't find a complaint about it.

Another thing on the .223, primers. The only primers for long range accuracy are Wolf SRM. I've tried everything with every load and the most consistent, single digit ES and SD, most accurate primer is always the Wolf SRM.

For pistol primers, I'm a CCI snob.

Hope that helps or provides some direction to those that were curious.
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Old 06-10-2013, 22:49   #2
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Thanks for sharing.
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Old 06-10-2013, 23:56   #3
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Seriously, thanks!

Richard
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:04   #4
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Thanks.
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:25   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post

WSF: No secret that's my service pistol powder choice. Works well from 9mm to 45 ACP. Similar burn rate to Unique, #5, and HS6. Great with lead, flows well, easy on the budget. I call this a ball version of Unique. Everything like it but WSF meters better. Otherwise I'd use Unique and save a bit of money because on my end an 8lb keg of Unique is $100 versus $125 for WSF.
Thanks. I think I'll try WSF for my 45 ACP and 9mm loads.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:32   #6
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Thanks for sharing, and an interesting read.


One of the big differences between manufacturing and the average hand loader, is the manufacturer has to make one load that works ok in everyone's gun. Would all these choices be the same if it was you on your bench in your garage for your personal guns?
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:09   #7
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Originally Posted by Zombie Steve View Post
Thanks for sharing, and an interesting read.


One of the big differences between manufacturing and the average hand loader, is the manufacturer has to make one load that works ok in everyone's gun. Would all these choices be the same if it was you on your bench in your garage for your personal guns?
With the exception of the 8028 load, which came out after I was an FFL, that's exactly how I got started. I just sold my same loads that I shot personally.

The .380 load I worked up when I carried a Bersa Thunder. That's the only load I settled on and it worked for range and for a carry load. The 9mm loads were from my H&K P7 and the 124gr was my favorite. The .40 was from when I loaded for the local cops for their training ammo. The two 10mm loads are what I currently use. The WSF load is my range load and the LS load is my carry load and hunting load. The .45 ACP loads I worked up in my G30 and RIA 1911 when I had them.

I would have no issue and have never had an issue using those above loads in my personal guns for personal purposes. I wouldn't change a thing if I gave up my FFL. For service cartridges, I only have a 10mm right now. Plan on getting a .45 ACP upper for my commander 1911 and those three .45 loads above is what I'll be shooting, with a preference toward the LSWC and LTC over the RN.

Bottom line, if I had guns in those calibers for personal use and loaded for them personally, those are the exact loads I'd be loading and shooting and would have no regrets doing it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:41   #8
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Interesting...

The reason I ask, is I'm working up a new .223 load, and between my two AR's, I had to sort of split the difference with the load the one rifle liked, and the load the other rifle liked. I wound up with a load that was fairly good for both, and certainly on par for what you can buy in a store, but it wasn't the best load for either.

I have found some loads that just seem to do well in anything chambered for .45 Colt, for example. Just funny how that works.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:13   #9
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Thanks Freakshow!! Interesting discussion as well... Reminds me that at the end of the day, after chasing so many variables, we all tend to just settle and "go with what works"!
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:26   #10
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Originally Posted by Zombie Steve View Post
Interesting...

The reason I ask, is I'm working up a new .223 load, and between my two AR's, I had to sort of split the difference with the load the one rifle liked, and the load the other rifle liked. I wound up with a load that was fairly good for both, and certainly on par for what you can buy in a store, but it wasn't the best load for either.

I have found some loads that just seem to do well in anything chambered for .45 Colt, for example. Just funny how that works.
I've changed out barrels on ARs when I had a few guns to find one that shot the load as equally well as the other rifles. I don't like the one load for a single gun approach, I prefer one load that all rifles in that caliber shoot well. If not, the load stays and the gun goes.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:45   #11
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Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
I've changed out barrels on ARs when I had a few guns to find one that shot the load as equally well as the other rifles. I don't like the one load for a single gun approach, I prefer one load that all rifles in that caliber shoot well. If not, the load stays and the gun goes.
You ever use the "go buy a different gun" stance with any of your customers?

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Old 06-11-2013, 12:59   #12
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Thanks for sharing FS10. When I started reloading for the 40 SW, I began using WSF. Since, I've used it for 135 and 147 gr 9mm bullets, 45 acp, and 10mm and I've been happy with it (although for plinking range rounds I usually use 231 in the 9 and 45). I would like to try it for 357 mag, but no data ... and I've not gotten around to "experimenting."
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Old 06-11-2013, 13:06   #13
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230gr LTC 6.0gr WSF 850FPS 1.185 OAL
This is basically my go-to load for my 1911's. I'm loading out to 1.210" and using 6.2 grains WSF. I must have long throats in these barrels, because when I loaded them that deep, they'd skid into the lands and lead the throat like silly. Too much of a running start, I guess.

If there's one thing about WSF I don't like, it's reverse temperature sensitivity. On a normal day, that load is getting 830-850 fps, but if it's really hot out, I've chrono'd the same load under 800.

Not a huge concern. Really a great load, but something to consider if you're playing a game right on the edge of major power factor and using WSF.
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Old 06-11-2013, 13:17   #14
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Thanks for sharing your special sauce Freakshow. Interesting find about Wolf SRP's. I have a bunch of them. For s CCI snob that is quite a revelation.
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Old 06-11-2013, 13:18   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve View Post
You ever use the "go buy a different gun" stance with any of your customers?

All the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve View Post
This is basically my go-to load for my 1911's. I'm loading out to 1.210" and using 6.2 grains WSF. I must have long throats in these barrels, because when I loaded them that deep, they'd skid into the lands and lead the throat like silly. Too much of a running start, I guess.
The 1.185 OAL is from the G30. It ran in a 1911 just fine so I found no need to change it. Anywhere at or north of 6.0gr for a decent OAL is a great .45 ACP load.

Quote:
If there's one thing about WSF I don't like, it's reverse temperature sensitivity. On a normal day, that load is getting 830-850 fps, but if it's really hot out, I've chrono'd the same load under 800.
Yup, same with WST.

Quote:
Not a huge concern. Really a great load, but something to consider if you're playing a game right on the edge of major power factor and using WSF.
I always tell people to chrono their load before they go out. All the local IDPA shoots never ran ammo over a chrono.
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Old 06-11-2013, 13:23   #16
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For s CCI snob that is quite a revelation.
When "going long" you have to put aside your prejudices, forget about the brand name, and just test everything equally. Whatever is the best, that's what you use.
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Old 06-11-2013, 13:54   #17
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When "going long" you have to put aside your prejudices, forget about the brand name, and just test everything equally. Whatever is the best, that's what you use.
I have used plenty of wolf and tula primers. Bought plenty when they were inexpensive. Never had an issue with any of them.
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Old 06-11-2013, 14:23   #18
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When "going long" you have to put aside your prejudices, forget about the brand name, and just test everything equally. Whatever is the best, that's what you use.
Ya ever since you told me about wolf for 5.56, when I am looking for primers I hope those are in stock over CCI. Used to be the complete opposite, would never think to buy wolf.
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25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 06-11-2013, 16:41   #19
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Thanks. I think I'll try WSF for my 45 ACP and 9mm loads.
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You won't regret trying WSF,my go to for 9mm,40 S&W & 45ACP/45 Cowboy Special. SJ 40
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Old 06-11-2013, 18:03   #20
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One of these days I'll have to try some WSF. I got started loading 9mm with Universal, liked it, and after trying Universal and plain Clays in .45, settled on WST (which also works well for moly coated 9mm). I buy Universal and WST in 8lb jugs now...so even if I were to try WSF and like it, I'd have "some powder" to burn through before really switching.
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