GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-03-2013, 13:00   #1
techvoodoo
Member
 
techvoodoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 39
Glock 19 Gen 3 - Brass to Face

Hello, new poster here.

I just bought a Glock 19 Gen 3 about a month ago. It's test fire cases have an April 15th 2013 date on the package, and the gun has a UVX Serial # prefix.

Over 600 hundred rounds fired so far I am experiencing brass to the face incidents. Usually around 1 or 2 per 15 round magazine. Here's some video of the ejection I shot during the last range session.


EDIT: Part 2 Video Added after receiving the Glock 19 Gen 3 back from Glock warranty/repair. Brass to Face issues still persist after 'repair' and the gun was sent back a 2nd time following this test session.


The gun has been sent back to Glock and I have my fingers crossed that it comes back in perfect working order. I really really love this gun. Compared to my Springfield XDM I prefer the Glock in every way, you know except the whole getting beaned in the head with brass issue.

I have been seeing several reports now from people that they have had the same issue, and after sending it in to Glock and getting it back, the BTF problem was not resolved. I'm a bit nervous that I'm going to be in that same boat. I hope it gets fixed, but the way my luck is I am not optimistic.

If that is the case, planning for worst case scenario, what would you recommend I do? Send it back again or try and fix it myself?

My Glock 19 Gen 3 had the 336 ejector, and the dipped extractor.

I've read people have had luck switching to the 30274 ejector. If I buy the trigger housing with a 30274 ejector on it, will it drop into my Gen 3 Glock 19?

I've heard people say that Apex makes an extractor that fixes the problem, I've heard others say Lone Wolf has one that fixes it, and I've had people tell me to just spend $10 on a new extractor, but they don't say what extractor that is. The Apex is like $60, that's a bit steep to just hope it fixes it.

If I go with the Apex, their site says I should use a different Spring Loaded Bearing. I've taken the Extractor Depressor Plunger assembly out of mine but it doesn't seem like the Spring Loaded Bearing comes off easily. I'm afraid if I give it a hard tug I will stretch the spring.

Thanks for the advice.

Last edited by techvoodoo; 07-06-2013 at 22:20..
techvoodoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 21:04   #2
GPBob
Member
 
GPBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 97
If you do a search on this site you will find this subject covered ad nauseum. One of the cures I found was the 30274 ejector and a 40cal extractor. That worked on my FDE Gen 3 19. The 40cal extractor by itself worked on my other Gen 3 19. It took me a lot of different combinations and over a thousand rounds to come up with my fixes. I'm still working on my Gen 3 26.
GPBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 01:09   #3
Queen Bee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 267
Either try again send it in, if it comes back the same tell them you want a brand new gun..

Or dump it on GB , and find yourself a nice older glock pref K letter or earlier..

Treat this like the mythical german made sig vs NH made..
Queen Bee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 03:30   #4
clarkz71
Senior Member
 
clarkz71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,606
The 30274 ejector has helped many shooters but
You have to order a gen4 housing and swap the
New ejector into your gen3 housing.

If that doesn't correct it Lone Wolf extractors are
Investment cast steel like the older pre MIM
crap current Glock parts. Last thing to try would
Be the Apex machined steel part.

Check the extractor tension with a round. A non LCI SLB will give you more tension if needed.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
.
G23 gen3 .40/.357 Sig
Florida Glocker #1923
clarkz71 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 06:09   #5
INEEDMILK
Senior Member
 
INEEDMILK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 755
Try a 30274 ejector ($15) and a White Sound Defense HRED ($20) before going down the APEX road.

I'm fairly certain that those two parts will fix the problem.
__________________
Glock 17 RTF2 G
Glock 19 RTF2 G

www.reddit.com/r/Glocks
INEEDMILK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 06:52   #6
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,411
What ammo are you using?

The Glock is built to shoot NATO ammo so a 124 gr bullet moving at 1200 fps or so. Find something that says NATO on the box.

Try a magazine full of Speer GDHP 124 gr at 1310 fps.

Loads have a Power Factor rating - bullet weight in grains times velocity in fps all divided by 1000.

A 124 gr bullet moving at 1310 fps has a PF of 165 whereas a 115 gr bullet moving at barely 1100 fps has a PF of 127 - about 23% less recoil. And recoil runs the gun!

You can also try the suggestions above regarding extractors and ejectors. Perhaps some combination of parts will allow you to shoot underpowered ammunition.

This BTF thing has been going on since 2010 so it isn't anything new.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 07:01   #7
9mmdude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 2,015
If it isn't fixed when you get it back send it back. Glock knows what the problem is. All these Glocks with problems magically appeared after all the years where they ran great.

They need to make them like they used too. Saving a couple of bucks per gun using mim parts isn't all it is cracked up to be.
9mmdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 07:47   #8
Shiloh228
Senior Member
 
Shiloh228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Peoples Republic of Maryland
Posts: 603
I have a G19 Gen 3 (Dec 2012)

I've noticed a few BTTOH (brass to top of head...actually landed soft enough to stay there...) -- and I've attributed it to [gasp] my limp-wristing.

A newbie, I'd been working on sight picture/trigger control, and focusing on that and not really paying attention to grip. I noticed that the gun seemed really loose as my grip had gradually become very "relaxed," resulting in the gun flipping up a lot.

Firmed up the grip/arms, and ejection was fine.

Just sayin'...worth watching out for.
__________________
" Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel-plated sissy pistol! "
Shiloh228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 07:55   #9
CDW4ME
Senior Member
 
CDW4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,128
It's Glock Talk, you are here to discuss Glocks

A search might not result in discovering a simple concise fix.
Maybe the OP will be rewarded by replies of what actually worked and kept on working.

OP I'm guessing the SA doesn't throw brass at your head regardless of grip.
__________________
No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!

Last edited by CDW4ME; 06-04-2013 at 07:57.. Reason: In before more "It's your grip" replies.
CDW4ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 07:59   #10
CDW4ME
Senior Member
 
CDW4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmdude View Post
If it isn't fixed when you get it back send it back. Glock knows what the problem is. All these Glocks with problems magically appeared after all the years where they ran great.

They need to make them like they used too. Saving a couple of bucks per gun using mim parts isn't all it is cracked up to be.
x2

I would pay more for a MIM free Glock.
__________________
No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!
CDW4ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:21   #11
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
A search might not result in discovering a simple concise fix.
Maybe the OP will be rewarded by replies of what actually worked and kept on working.

OP I'm guessing the SA doesn't throw brass at your head regardless of grip.
Some 'fixes' work on some guns and not on others. There is NO universal fix. There's a long sticky at the top of the forum that purports to provide a fix. I'm not sure that it does.

And, yes, the XD9 ejects just fine, even with Federal Champion.

Everybody wants to mess around with the ejector and extractor. I think the guns are oversprung for the wimpy ammo that users want to shoot. I would get a 'calibration pack' of springs from Wolff Springs. There are a couple of downsides to reducing the spring rate: First, if the spring is too light, the slide and frame take a beating. Second, if the spring is too light, cocking the striker will take the gun out of battery. So then you lighten up on the striker spring and you get light primer strikes. So then you use a titanium striker. The whole gun is a balancing act. Changing one thing leads to another.

I have read of similar problems with the G36s. I'm here to tell you, run full power ammo and the ejection is robust. I don't necessarily want to run full power .45 but the gun eats it up. Regular hardball (230 gr, 814 fps measured from G36) works well as does Hornady Critical Defense (185 gr at 929 fps measured from G36).

It would sure be nice if there was a universal fix but, alas, I don't think there is.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:26   #12
techvoodoo
Member
 
techvoodoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 39
Thanks for all the replies, have a few questions and other pieces of info.

I think my grip is good. You can see in the video I posted how I grip the gun. I don't have this or any other problems with my XDM 4.5 or my XDM 3.8 Compact, any of my 1911's, my Beretta 92fs, or friends Glock 22, or any other handgun I've ever shot.

Regarding ammo, I've tested it with Winchester White Box 115gr FMJ, PMC 115gr FMJ, American Eagle 124gr FMJ, Speer Lawman 124gr FMJ, American Eagle 147gr FMJ, and Federal HST 147gr FMJ. Only 100 rounds of each type so not extensive testing with any single type of ammo. I had brass to the face or head with each type, the lower weight stuff more often than the heavier.

Unfortunately with the ammo availability the way it is I haven't been able to pick and choose what I want to shoot out of it easily.

If it doesn't work after coming back and I decide to try and make some modifications myself, I haven't been able to find a tutorial on taking a 30274 ejector and putting it into the Glock 19 Trigger Housing. Does anyone have a video showing how that is done by chance? I couldn't find one.

In any event I'll post updates when it gets back from Glock with the results. Thanks for the feedback so far I appreciate it.
techvoodoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:47   #13
WayneJessie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,161
If you have no luck when it comes back from Glock I would try the Gen4 ejector before replacing additional parts. If that does not help and you really want to keep that gun I'd spring for the Apex extractor. I purchased a late-Gen3 like yours that dribbled cases; BTF; and would even eject to the left. I probably should have attempted to fix it but I held a Gen4 and liked the grip on it a little more so I traded. Really, if I could start over with owning a G19 I would have found a clean Gen2 even it cost as much as a new Gen4 but that's just me.
Gen2 & early Gen3 units never needed NATO-spec ammo to eject consistently so whatever Glock changed that is causing the current issues should be reversed even if the guns have to have a price increase to do it.
__________________
I'd own a Glock; were it not for Glock owners.
WayneJessie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 10:50   #14
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by techvoodoo View Post
Regarding ammo, I've tested it with Winchester White Box 115gr FMJ, PMC 115gr FMJ, American Eagle 124gr FMJ, Speer Lawman 124gr FMJ, American Eagle 147gr FMJ, and Federal HST 147gr FMJ. Only 100 rounds of each type so not extensive testing with any single type of ammo. I had brass to the face or head with each type, the lower weight stuff more often than the heavier.
Initially, I thought the Federal HST would make the power factor but, no, it's still short.

You can get velocity for various factory loads from:
http://www.targetsportsusa.com/c-51-9mm-luger-ammo.aspx

Look for something that approaches NATO power levels. Most don't even come close. It turns out that NATO levels are considered +P. So, maybe a 124 gr +P by any commercial outfit. Winchester makes some as does Speer with their GDHP and they even have a version for short barrels.

Yes, supplies are thin. I have no idea where to find this stuff.

I could just barely make the power factor with a 147 gr bullet moving 1095 fps. But that would be using data from HandLoads.com and I'm not certain I would do that without some manufacturer data to support it.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin

Last edited by F106 Fan; 06-04-2013 at 20:08..
F106 Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 10:58   #15
Bill Lumberg
BTF Inventor
 
Bill Lumberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,878
Watching your grip (and frequent regripping) is telling. It's no wonder all brass didn't travel the exact same path. Weak ejection is a concern, if it is such that it interferes with weapon function. Ever getting touched by brass is not. There are defective glocks out there. But folks who don't understand what normal expectations for shooter and gun are far outnumber actual problem units these days. There's just a greater disparity than ever before between the real and the percieved issues. Thanks Al Gore.
__________________
Did someone talk to you about your TPS reports?

Last edited by Bill Lumberg; 06-04-2013 at 11:27..
Bill Lumberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 11:22   #16
TTex
Cannon Fodder
 
TTex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 477
I'd try the Gen 4 ejector first, and then try to find a factory non-dipped extractor. My wife's Gen 4 had the updated internals, but still liked to pitch brass at us. The White Sound H.E.R.D seemed to help a little, but it was a non-dipped extractor that did the most for the G19. All my Gen 4 G26 needed was the new ejector.
TTex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 11:42   #17
gmbat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 12
I have a 1992 G22. I reload and shot thousands of rounds of the same "light" load, got BTF on a regular bases. I read through the GATE on this site about BTF and the guy that owns Lone Wolf (the expert) replied every time, try different ammo until you find one that works. I tried a new load - heavier bullet, a bit more powder and low and behold, no more BTF. Guess the expert knows what he is talking about. And notice, the 22 is one of the oldies and goodies. Not saying this will fix every Glock that has the problem, but it worked for me.
gmbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 11:54   #18
WCork
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 13
Hopefully your issue gets resolved. I just bought a Gen 3 19 with a test fire date of 5/1/13 and it has the 336 ejector in it. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet but I hate to say that I'm not optimistic. You seem to have more patience than me though, because I really wouldn't want to send it back to Glock and wait for a 6-8 week turnaround on it.

Did you have any FTE's when firing with it?
WCork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:50   #19
clarkz71
Senior Member
 
clarkz71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,606
If weak ammo is the reason for BTF then how do you explain
perfect ejecting G19's and G17's pre 2009.

Weak ammo has been around as long as Glock.

Shooting "NATO" 124gr and hi power SD loads is a crutch
for out of spec slides with crap extractors. The LCI extractor
is part of the problem but worked when they were still
investment cast steel. When Glock switched to MIM it
magnified a problem that was already there.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
.
G23 gen3 .40/.357 Sig
Florida Glocker #1923
clarkz71 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 13:15   #20
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
If weak ammo is the reason for BTF then how do you explain
perfect ejecting G19's and G17's pre 2009.

Weak ammo has been around as long as Glock.

Shooting "NATO" 124gr and hi power SD loads is a crutch
for out of spec slides with crap extractors. The LCI extractor
is part of the problem but worked when they were still
investment cast steel. When Glock switched to MIM it
magnified a problem that was already there.
There is no doubt the guns are different. There is no question that the extractor is part of the problem and there is some hint that the slot in the slide may not properly position the extractor. The gap between the breech face and extractor hook may be too big.

The thing is, Glock doesn't make early Gen 3s or Gen 2s any longer. It really doesn't matter that those guns worked and the current versions don't. You have to use what you can get.

Particuaraly in the G36 world, you will see a lot of threads that go something like: "My G36 works perfectly with SD ammo but I can't afford to shoot it and I get a lot of FTEs with range ammo. What's wrong with my gun?". Nothing! It was designed for full power ammo and it just may not like .45 Wimpy.

Then someone comes along and says "Hey, my G36 works fine with .45 Wimpy!". Who cares? The OPs gun doesn't. And until they shoot full power loads it may never. Once again, there are a number of 'parts swaps' solutions and they might even work. But in the case of the 9mm guns, 'parts swaps' aren't universally successful.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin

Last edited by F106 Fan; 06-04-2013 at 14:27..
F106 Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 14:12   #21
gmbat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
If weak ammo is the reason for BTF then how do you explain
perfect ejecting G19's and G17's pre 2009.
My Glock 22, as stated in my post, is a 1992 (purchased new). Not disagreeing that there can be a myriad of situations that lead to BTF, just trying to help by passing along the info I found on the Go Ask The Expert on this forum. I should have pointed out that he didn't blame BTF on "weak" ammo, he said keep trying different ammo to find some that solves the problem. By changing my powder and bullet weight, my problem was solved. My new load is still not "full power", still a mid-range load for punching holes in paper. For those who can find ammo or reload their own and have this problem, it's an easy and inexpensive first try at solving the problem

Last edited by gmbat; 06-04-2013 at 14:15..
gmbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 14:16   #22
Buckshot Barry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 523
Had similar issues with new Gen 3 19 and I fixed it myself. Runs Federal Champion 115's just fine now. With pics

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1450148
Buckshot Barry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 14:40   #23
techvoodoo
Member
 
techvoodoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
Watching your grip (and frequent regripping) is telling. It's no wonder all brass didn't travel the exact same path. Weak ejection is a concern, if it is such that it interferes with weapon function. Ever getting touched by brass is not. There are defective glocks out there. But folks who don't understand what normal expectations for shooter and gun are far outnumber actual problem units these days. There's just a greater disparity than ever before between the real and the percieved issues. Thanks Al Gore.
Losing a little grip and readjusting grip occasionally, in south florida 100% humidity 94 degree heat, is an issue that everyone I've ever shot with deals with. That said the range officer, who is a die hard glock fan and extremely good shooter shot my gun and was hit in the face with brass on the 8th shot. My friend who owns an older Glock 22 also gets hit with brass with this Glock 19.

I'm not saying my grip is perfect but I have 2 XDm's, a Beretta 92fs, 3 1911's, and my friend's older Glock 22 and they all function exactly as expected (strong consistent ejection, no brass to the head or body).

No offense but I really don't think it's a grip issue.
techvoodoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 19:37   #24
dbarn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 144
I find it interesting that during our police academy firearms class of which there were over 30 new recruits, not one complained of BTF or erratic ejection. The majority of which were first time firearms users and had varying qualifying scores. If anyone were going to limp wrist, it surely would have been some of these folks. We all had to bring our own ammo and most came from Wally World.

All of the pistols were older Gen 3's that had thousands of rounds through. No erratic ejection and no brass to the face.

My recent Glock 31 Gen 4 chunked brass in my forehead and the ejection was extremely erratic. I hear folks on this forum that state "who cares as long as it functions" as if this is normal for recently produced Glocks and something you should expect. While others completely refuse to acknowledge there is a problem at all. Until you have shot a Glock that performs as they were intended and originally designed to have consistent ejection, and not chunk brass to your face, you will never know how good it can be.

For me the end result meant getting rid of my Gen 4 and finding a pistol made during the same era as the ones we used in the academy.

In my search to find the fix for my Gen 4, there were many fixes suggested. Most of which myself and a Glock Armorer tried. But in the end ejection was still erratic and brass to the face was still happening. One thing suggested is that something on the pistol was out of spec. Was it the slide? The ejector? The extractor? The recoil spring assembly? I don't know, but entirely fault Glock and their failure to admit they have a problem. They should have been more forthcoming with information regarding their defects, admit their mistakes, been up front, and looked for ways to fix them rather than sitting on their laurels waiting for folks to come to them.
dbarn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 21:30   #25
CAK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bellevue WA
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmbat View Post
My Glock 22, as stated in my post, is a 1992 (purchased new). Not disagreeing that there can be a myriad of situations that lead to BTF...
I agree that the BTF issue is not really a new issue with Gen 4s and Gen 3s. I spent the last couple of nights watching Glock 19 range test videos on Youtube. If you just watch the ejection patterns on the videos you will see the same type of weird ejection patterns with some of the Gen 2s and some of the early Gen 3s. One of the Hitchcock45 videos compares a Gen2, Gen3, and Gen4 G19 at the same time. Watch how the Gen2 ejects one or two cases to the left...
__________________
El Cid '89
CAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 19:55.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,508
480 Members
1,028 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42