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Old 05-23-2013, 00:03   #1
Kevinr20
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How do you feel about seatbelt/helmet laws?

Try to keep it civil.

Go.

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Old 05-23-2013, 00:10   #2
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Too many laws.
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Old 05-23-2013, 00:14   #3
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Personally I am against them. If a person feels the risk of riding helmetless/unbuckled is low enough and the reward is high enough... why is it anyone's business besides my own?

I recently moved to a state that requires a helmet at all times. I found this out by flying the bird to a car that was honking behind me as I was turning left through an intersection.

The encounter with the police started with with me flying the bird at a cop as he was honking at me because I wasn't wearing a helmet as I was turning left through an intersection
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Old 05-23-2013, 00:47   #4
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Quote:
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Personally I am against them. If a person feels the risk of riding helmetless/unbuckled is low enough and the reward is high enough... why is it anyone's business besides my own?

:
It's not and I really don't care if you wear a helmet or not BUT I do care if they haul you to the emergency room with your brains leaking out after you pile up your bike then find out half a million dollars later you either have no health insurance or it sucks and won't pay for more than a fraction of your bill. Because guess who pays for your traumatic brain injury then?
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:03   #5
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If you do something foolish and die thats one thing.

The problem is when folks who choose not to wear a seatbelt or helmet get hurt "and survive" and become a huge burden to society for their life choice...then it becomes a problem.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:11   #6
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There's not really a reason not to wear them.

Like others have said...if you become injured, you could become a burden to your families and society.

You want your kids or mom having to change your diaper for you?

Its pretty selfish not to wear them in my opinion.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:19   #7
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It's a cheap or free, minimally intrusive regulation that saves untold amounts of taxpayer money, as mentioned. I tend to think some people just have a problem with the concept of rules and authority, no matter how/if reasonable.

If there was a way to guarantee that I wouldn't end up paying for medical care or a now-fatherless child with my taxes, I'd be fine with it. But there's not. These laws, like laws against factories dumping waste into rivers, are effective ways of keeping massive costs away from society by asking relatively unobtrusive measures of private parties.


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Old 05-23-2013, 02:56   #8
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I saw a PSA by Chuck Yeager a few years ago and he talked about having some control over his future while flying a jet. He said if he was thrown up into the canopy where he could not operate the controls he went from pilot to passenger and had no input into his future. That is why fighter pilots wear a seat belt. In a vehicle its the same deal. Once the impact happens if you get tossed into the back seat or the passenger seat you too become a passenger and you have no further input into your future. Just made a lot of sense to me.
I have been down on a motorcycle and smacked the back of my head on the pavement. I was in a state with no helmet law but luckily I was wearing one. The helmet was destroyed but I got up and walked away. Now I'm a believer.
Do we need laws? That I'm not sure of.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:16   #9
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After working the first couple of major vehicle accidents, the value of a seat belt is evident. Those wearing them usually incur far less injury than the guy who was ejected. Unlike in the movies "EJECT!EJECT! EJECT!! is not cool in a vehicle accident!!!

I wear mine everyday, every time I am in a vehicle, driver or passenger. The trick is to remember to release it before you bail to chase a perp!!!! Surprisingly. It only takes a few times before you get the hang of it!! LOL!!!
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:37   #10
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Helmets and seat belts can save your life and wearing them is a good idea...and they can't be required by law in a society that calls itself "free."


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Old 05-23-2013, 04:45   #11
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Having been in a minor accident while not wearing a seatbelt and getting all beat to hell, and then being in a major car accident while wearing a seatbelt and walking away with nary a bruise, I am a firm believer people should wear seatbelts. as someone who has ridden motorcycles for well over 30 years, I also think one a fool not to wear a helmet.

That being said, I also feel the state has no business telling people to do so.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:48   #12
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Having been in a minor accident while not wearing a seatbelt and getting all beat to hell, and then being in a major car accident while wearing a seatbelt and walking away with nary a bruise, I am a firm believer people should wear seatbelts. as someone who has ridden motorcycles for well over 30 years, I also think one a fool not to wear a helmet.

That being said, I also feel the state has no business telling people to do so.

Then it should also be ok that the State or Taxpayers not have to foot the bill for someones catastrophic injuries.

No free acute hospital care.
No free rehabilitation.
No free vocational training.
No Social Security Disability.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:50   #13
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Quote:
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Helmets and seat belts can save your life and wearing them is a good idea...and they can't be required by law in a society that calls itself "free."


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Old 05-23-2013, 05:01   #14
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In rural middle Tennessee where I live, the local paper focuses on local events. Thus vehicle accidents, which normally don't get much if any mention in big city media, are often front page news here. And in a high percentage of the vehicle accidents causing serious injury or death, the victim was thrown from the vehicle.

In most cases, if you are a private airplane pilot or planning to become one your premiums will be higher should you buy life or disability insurance than if you have no aerial aspirations.

Individual choices have financial consequences. In the one case, borne by society. In the other, borne by the individual.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:04   #15
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:00   #16
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I would like to see seat belt usage along with any number of other driving habits more closely monitored by the insurance companies and give them more leeway to assess costs based on their actuarial studies.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:01   #17
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I would like to see seat belt usage along with any number of other driving habits more closely monitored by the insurance companies and give them more leeway to assess costs based on their actuarial studies.
Good idea.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:11   #18
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The problem didn't start with the helmet and seat belt laws that make us all a tiny bit less free.

The problem started with the other laws that mandate taxpayer-provided medical care, taxpayer-provided rehab, taxpayer-provided vocational training, and taxpayer-provided governmental disability/social security payments. These are the laws that enslave us all, both by their huge costs, outright, but also by the nanny state they require to reduce their costs to society.

If you start with "the state will take care of you," you end up with "the state gets to tell you how to live your life and will force you to pay for the privilege."
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:12   #19
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Ok, since no one will say it...

Gary Bussey

In 1989, I was in a low side on I-564 headed towards Norfolk Navy Base and I was doing around 60mph. I came off the bike, rolled and tumbled approx 50-75 yards. I walked away with no injuries thanks to ATGATT. I was wearing a Shoei full face helmet and when I took it off the helmet was scraped and dinged on all sides.

I don't know about you, but even lightly "bouncing" your head off the road at 60 mph will do pretty significant damage in my opinion.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:14   #20
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Always wear a full face helmet....wear a seat belt most of the time. I don't like huge bugs and stone impacting my face or being thrown from a rolling car. Pretty simple stuff!
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:22   #21
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Quote:
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Ok, since no one will say it...

Gary Bussey

In 1989, I was in a low side on I-564 headed towards Norfolk Navy Base and I was doing around 60mph. I came off the bike, rolled and tumbled approx 50-75 yards. I walked away with no injuries thanks to ATGATT. I was wearing a Shoei full face helmet and when I took it off the helmet was scraped and dinged on all sides.

I don't know about you, but even lightly "bouncing" your head off the road at 60 mph will do pretty significant damage in my opinion.
Quote:
Always wear a full face helmet....wear a seat belt most of the time. I don't like huge bugs and stone impacting my face or being thrown from a rolling car. Pretty simple stuff!
great reasons for wearing a helment =/= great reasons for helmet laws
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:34   #22
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Here is another example. I am on the Stromtropper (VStrom) forum and another member posted this story that happened to him on 5/21 on his way to work in the morning.

I was struck in succession by three fist sized rocks kicked up and hurled at me by a Tractor Trailer. The first hit so hard that it rocked my head back. The second hit me in the front chin of the helmet forcing my head forward and knocked my chin into my chest. The third slammed dead center of the faceplate, knocking my head to the right and completely shattered and tore away the face shield. The whole incident happened in super slow motion.

Each impact was forceful enough to cause immediate unconsciousness if not for protection. I was venting the helmet because of fogging, so it was ironic that the wind forced the face shield down just seconds prior to the first impact. It was a miracle I stayed up while traveling at close to 90 MPH. God telling me to slow down?

The helmet has a large hole/indentation knocked into the forehead. A small fragment of the one that hit my chin was still lodged in the chin/mouth vent when I arrived to work. It was the size of a flat golf ball and almost the shaped of a spear head. This’ll make a nice paper weight. There is still a fragment of the face shield still attached to the ride side of the helmet. I’m gonna have to trade in my mundane simple cell phone for a camera phone so I can take pictures of these types of events. I’d post this in my Harley-Davidson Forum but it’ll just cause too much controversy.

I’d have a Trophy to hang on my home office shelf if I didn’t have to hide this from my wife and daughter. Good thing I have 3 other helmets.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:40   #23
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The logic of using seat belts and wearing helmets is undeniable; they save lives and untold millions of dollars in medical costs. But there was no hue and cry from the citizenry demanding that such laws be enacted; that came about almost entirely at the behest of the insurance industry.

What I truly detest is the way that these mandates are communicated to the public. Rather than try to convince people that wearing a seat belt is a good idea from a personal safety perspective, PSAs about seat belt laws almost universally concentrate on the punishment aspect of them, i.e.,, "You WILL get caught and you WILL be ticketed", etc. I have no problem following rules for the benefit of the safety of others, but I resent the heavy-handedness of enforcement supposedly intended to protect me from myself.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:43   #24
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I don't believe they should be mandated. Yet I wear a seat belt, mostly out of habit. If I rode a motorbike I would wear one. Yet I don't wear one on a bicycle. I don't feel the need.

The fewer laws the better in my opinion.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:52   #25
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Originally Posted by F14Scott View Post
The problem didn't start with the helmet and seat belt laws that make us all a tiny bit less free.

The problem started with the other laws that mandate taxpayer-provided medical care, taxpayer-provided rehab, taxpayer-provided vocational training, and taxpayer-provided governmental disability/social security payments. These are the laws that enslave us all, both by their huge costs, outright, but also by the nanny state they require to reduce their costs to society.

If you start with "the state will take care of you," you end up with "the state gets to tell you how to live your life and will force you to pay for the privilege."
Good post.

I'm not a bike rider, but I've been using seat belts since the late forties or early fifties. My father was a professional mechanic and also a race car fan. He saw the value of them for race car drivers and would install them on our old Fords and Chevy's. We grew up wearing them. I wouldn't drive across a Wal Mart parking lot without one fastened.

Our small town newspaper also reports accidents. It's sickening week after week to read the local accident reports. Much of the time it's driver or passenger was either ejected from the vehicle or at least severely injured. Occupant was not wearing a safety device.

When I lived in California, the highway patrol had a seatbelt simulator. It was mounted on a utility trailer and they would tow it to parking lots at shopping malls etc. It was a seat mounted on an inclined slide. The seat was equipped with a full airplane type seat belt and double shoulder harness. The seat would be positioned at the top end of the slide.

A person would sit in the seat and fasten the harness and seat belt. The instructor would then release the seat. The incline was calibrated to hit a stop at the bottom of the slide at exactly 5 MPH. One ride on that thing would convince you of the need for a seatbelt.

Last edited by Caver 60; 05-23-2013 at 06:53.. Reason: spelling
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