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Old 07-06-2013, 16:37   #21
Tiro Fijo
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Snagged two boxes today of the Rem. 158 gr. LHP +p at a Bass Pro in TX. They are in the new "High Terminal Performance" box but are the old nickel plated cases AND were priced approx. $10.00 cheaper than normal!! I paid $26.99 per box minus tax. I paid $37.00 per box last year. Not complaining by any means but...


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Old 07-06-2013, 16:51   #22
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There seems to be a whole new line of pistol ammo from Remington on their website called High Terminal Performance which includes the 38 LSWCHP+P. How new it is I don't know. It will be interesting to see what is consists of when it eventually becomes available.
Nothing new about this ammo except for using brass cases. All it is is Remington Express repackaged. Same with their Golden Saber as they have once again changed the packaging.

The only real new handgun ammo from Rem is their Black Belt BJHP ammo for LE that was introduced at SHOT this year.
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Old 07-06-2013, 21:05   #23
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Nothing new about this ammo except for using brass cases. All it is is Remington Express repackaged. Same with their Golden Saber as they have once again changed the packaging.

The only real new handgun ammo from Rem is their Black Belt BJHP ammo for LE that was introduced at SHOT this year.
Thanks. That's about what I figured regarding the "new" ammo. I hadn't heard about the Black Belt ammo. While it looks interesting, I'm not sure how it is any better than a bonded round
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Old 07-06-2013, 22:52   #24
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I wish someone would sell a LSWCHP with serrations. I think it would be a big step in improving the performance of the LHP.
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Old 07-06-2013, 23:03   #25
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I wish someone would sell a LSWCHP with serrations. I think it would be a big step in improving the performance of the LHP.
I think not.

IMO

Serrations on a JHP work because the jacket holds things together. without that the bare lead "petals" would jus snap off or fold back along the body of the bullet.
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Old 07-06-2013, 23:30   #26
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I disagree from personal experience. Ill post a picture i a little bit comparing bullets that were scored with a knife abd one without. The serrated bullets expansion was much more aggressive and would likely perform much better through clothing.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:19   #27
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I disagree from personal experience. Ill post a picture i a little bit comparing bullets that were scored with a knife abd one without. The serrated bullets expansion was much more aggressive and would likely perform much better through clothing.

It's going to take more than one shot to convince people AND you better have some sort of scientific test media that is repeatable and not milk jugs filled with water, wet newspaper or shot into a dirt bank.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:25   #28
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Serrations on anything weaken the strength. Just like tearing fabric. A small notch at the edge will allow for it to tear.

My proof is any common JHP. They all have serrations for a reason.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:39   #29
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Serrations on anything weaken the strength. Just like tearing fabric. A small notch at the edge will allow for it to tear.

My proof is any common JHP. They all have serrations for a reason.

Common JHP's have serrations because they are copper alloy jacketed and need all the help they can get to overcome the stiffer resistance offered by the jacketed body in order to open up, i.e., mushroom. Lead acts somewhat differently and this is controlled by alloying it as well as by shape/design. If you serrate a hard alloy then petals will break off. If you serrate a soft allow then perhaps you might get some benefit, however I would imagine no moreso than if you merely used the same alloy in a LHP. This was tried years ago using the the trick of moulding a piece of tin foil into the nose of a lead bullet by casters, however it was imprecise.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:59   #30
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But keep in mind that we are talking about .38 Special loads. They use a soft lead and travel at low velocities. Becuase of this, you dont have to worry about petals breaking or you would have seen it in the first place.

Not only that, but in 7 years of ballistic testing I have seen plenty of loads but never one where the lead simply broke. If lead can spread and form even patterns and uniform expansion at rifle velocities then a pure cast lead bullet at 800 FPS wont be any problem.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:24   #31
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...but in 7 years of ballistic testing...

So, market your wonderful discovery and become rich.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:57   #32
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good...I'll get some to replace my old stash of remmy FBI load and build a stash so I can get something better than the aluminum cased blazer stuff I bought during the run on ammo last year
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Old 07-07-2013, 16:49   #33
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The nickel plated +P SWCHP is what is in my pocket snub right now...it is my favorite 38spl load. I also use it in my Model 15.
I will certainly buy some.
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Old 07-07-2013, 17:13   #34
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My position on the LSWCHP is still the same after some 35 years of shooting it.

It is too dumb to fail.

That means that, made from a proper alloy, it expands in relation to the resistance it meets. Trying to "trick it out" to go beyond that runs the risk of rapid expansion at the price of penetration under a variety of unpredictable circumstances and given the velocity limit of a "+P" rated round.

As a caster I am actually more impressed with dropping from the mold into ice water and selectively annealing the bullet nose. This gives a transition zone between the softened nose and the harder body that allows the bullet to remain homogeneous under impact stresses. However in a projectile as small as a .357 bullet the bullets are more "temperamental" as are the results inconsistent, than a 240-250 gn .429 bullet.

this method, like all casting, is subject to many variables related to the firearm in question.
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Old 07-08-2013, 14:22   #35
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If running a j-frame or lesser snub in 38 special, I don't think you can do better than a 155-158 grain swc. I don't believe there is a need for a hollow point. The projectile is very slow and it is the profile of the bullet that is doing the damage. With cast boolits, it is wide meplats, not hollow points that do damage. In most applications it takes a great deal of fine tuning the alloy to mushroom reliably from a hollow-point mould. Often times the velocity window for reliable expansion is outside of the window for accuracy or penetration.

I don't really think a swchp has anything to offer over a plain swc at 38 special velocities. The only thing it has to offer over a 148 wc is an extra 10 grains of momentum for penetration.

I like to cast my semi-wadcutters soft for a j-frame 38. Obduration of the base really keeps the leading down and lets the lube work. With wheel weights cut with some pure lead, lee tumble lube is perfect without a trace of leading. I do find that the swaged bullets (Hornady hollow point) from the store are very accurate too with the right powder. I have come to prefer 4.0 grains of WW-231 after thinking I could come up with a better load myself. You might be able to re-invent the wheel, but re-inventing something better than the wheel can very difficult.
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Old 07-08-2013, 16:35   #36
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Tiro

Thanks for the heads up. I've been carrying that load for a long time & Buffalo Bore's offering as well.

projected date of arrival is 10-1-13, & I used the notify me option. Probably when they say it's in we'd best grab some.
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Old 07-08-2013, 18:18   #37
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I wish someone would sell a LSWCHP with serrations. I think it would be a big step in improving the performance of the LHP.
In LHP, the HP design + alloy dictates expansion. Nothing wrong with the old "FBI" load, it always expands to about 50cal from a snub or up to 4" bbl. Glad to see they are reintroducing it.
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Old 07-08-2013, 18:40   #38
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Our own Massad Ayoob says it's a pretty good load.
He has access to a lot of shooting data & should know.
He says it has a pretty good street record.
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