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Old 05-15-2013, 12:17   #26
GLWyandotte
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Originally Posted by tarpleyg View Post
I'm till trying to figure out why any government body needs to be involved in "marriage". Do we really need the governments official blessing to be married to someone?

And that's a huge part of the money equation.
Currently many companies offer same-sex partner benefits, as well as married partner benefits. This already discriminates against opposite sex couples who choose not to get married. What will be the definitions now? Companies will either be forced into providing insurance coverage to anyone who happens to living with you- or taking it all away from everyone. More State meddling and more government intrusion is going to result and it won't be getting better any time soon.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:41   #27
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good, my state was first Discrimination is wrong. When the social conservatives stop violating the constitution to force their religious views on others itll be a great day, many gay people believe in conservativee principles but the haters keep them away
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Old 05-15-2013, 20:59   #28
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How long before the Churches who refuse to perform same-sex marraiges and speak against it are charged with hate speech?
You realize you dont have to be married in a church? I was married at the Greek Theater at my local college.

Are Westborough Baptist charged with anything for what they do?

Do the kkk run churches get into trouble?[i think they are called christian identity]

Does the kkk get into trouble for not allowing blacks in?

That's just silly to even entertain the thought that it will come to that.

You're either being naive or trying to come up with something to complain about.

Pretty much what i said earlier. Only arguments against involve religion or because THEY dont like it.

I respect your beliefs, but its wrong to impose your views on others.

This is America. People should pretty much be able to do what they like, so long as it doesnt infringe upon the rights of another.
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Old 05-15-2013, 21:15   #29
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i though most people were "married" in government buildings...sighning papers and stuff...weddings were just a ceremony.....
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Old 05-15-2013, 21:16   #30
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How far can that be? Not far really. As long as it's mutually agreable, as it seems no limit to what's the norm.

Being a Christian and now, maybe a minority, soon to become protected (seein's how we're thiiiis close to being a special interest group,) I'm not thrilled with this- just from a morality standpoint. But that just my opinion.
Two people love each other, great, but my scripture-based backround (which you may now begin to pick apart, church and state, yadda yadda) tells me this is wrong. Separation of Church and State is a joke. How long before the Churches who refuse to perform same-sex marraiges and speak against it are charged with hate speech?

Last year there was an ammendment proposal in which liberals cleverly changed the wording of the bill, then the phrasing of "Vote Yes" to "Vote No" to an ammendment limiting marriage to that between a man and a woman. So, many people who don't pay attention voted for what they thought was a vote against gay marriage. Their fault. At the time of this ammendment, the GLBT lobby was very clear about this is all we want, no more.
This year, they bludgeon the public with a legalization Bill, calling any and all who oppose haters, bigots, etc- whatever it took to pass this Bill. The Bill passed when many senators, both Republican and Democrat voted against the wishes of their constituents in order to save their images(from hater, bigot).
This won't cost the tax payers a thing was the rallying cry.
The Bill passes and suddenly the Wabasha Street bridge has been renamed "Freedom To Marry" bridge. Public workers then appear and place rainbow flags along the bridge. Mpls did the same, only they turned their lights to rainbow lights. A huge party was thrown on the Capitol lawn, complete with music, a public signing of the Bill and security, etc- all that is required.
For not costing the tax payers anything, they sure racked up a nice bill in just one day. I can't recall a Bill where there was a state-sponsored party.

The State should not be involved in who you can marry- it should have been a non-factor from the beginning. Wanna get married, go ahead!
The State should also not be involved in forcing this issue on the voters, making any and all who oppose a villian. Make no mistake, this was forced and rammed through by the State. In a straight out popular vote with clear wording, this would have overwhelmingly failed.This is just another liberal tactic to grab money and demonize any last vestiges of evil Christians.
Oh, you poor Christians are being oppressed and are in the minority?

It must be hard finding a place to worship. It's not like you can walk down the street and find a church in every town in every state.

It's not like the currency and the pledge to our flag references your god for no reason.

It's not like a lot of Christian-named hospitals are devoted to a Christian-friendly healing environment with mini churches inside them, complete with pastors and doctors who will pray with you.

It's not like when your holidays come around, the government lets everyone off work and gives you a great deal on a flat screen TV.

What were the last 43 presidents again? Christians, and will probably stay that way because you'll never vote otherwise. That's tolerance there.

It's not like they make you swear to tell the truth by putting your hand on a bible. Oh wait...

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Old 05-15-2013, 21:27   #31
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Good. Every time freedom gains ground is a good day.
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Old 05-15-2013, 22:22   #32
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Good. Every time freedom gains ground is a good day.
Much agreed!

I'm proud of MN choosing to expand freedom for gays instead of limiting our 2A rights. It has been a fascinating political game of chess.
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Old 05-15-2013, 22:27   #33
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Of course, I don't think gays should have guns. That's just too much.




















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Old 05-15-2013, 22:31   #34
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Of course, I don't think gays should have guns. That's just too much.




















LMAO!

Not happening. I've got all Winter's worth that I haven't even shot yet!
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Old 05-15-2013, 22:32   #35
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This is the state that made Al Franken a Senator- right ? ...

.
That's right, Al Franken - failed comedian, commentator on the American Pravda - Air America, and successful misogynist.

...and Jesse Ventura; every good Minnesotan knows that you need a former wrestler in office who can put the legislature in a decent headlock in order to achieve good government. He also did a good job of keeping the state safe from UFO's, black helicopters and government conspiracies.

The current governor, Mark Dayton, who has been in rehab more times than Lindsay Lohan, is the former senator from Minnesota who heroically fleed Washington, DC on 9/11 claiming that it was too dangerous for him to remain there. He was the only senator to sense the danger and thus the only one to run.

Don't forget famed socialist and Carleton professor Paul "Don't Stop the Bus" Wellstone who campaigned in his "Magic Green Bus," a vehicle that would have made Ken Kesey and his Merry Pranksters proud.

Wait! Wait! We can't forget congressman Keith Ellison who dropped Catholicism like it was hot, to convert to Islam and thus became the first Muslim in congress.

And who can forget Minnesotan Fritz Mondale who set records for political defeat - in 1984 he ran for president against Ronnie Reagan and won only his home state and DC in the election.

Most recently, state senate majority leader Amy "Hot Pants" Koch finally found the shame to resign after her lurid extra-marital affair was not only repeatedly dragged through the media, but also became fodder for local stand-up routines.

I am convinced that Minnesota politics are good only for comic relief.

I'm equally convinced that in the case of Minnesota, Alexis de Toqueville's admonition that "In a democracy, people get the government they deserve," rings particularly true.
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Old 05-15-2013, 22:51   #36
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I'm till trying to figure out why any government body needs to be involved in "marriage". Do we really need the governments official blessing to be married to someone?

The churches gave up regulation of marriage and divorce and handed it over to the state by the early part of the last century. [Note musilims still control this within their comminity and have private sharia courts for such things, wherever they live - smart - they don't let the guv determine what happens with their kids or their money.]

When you get a marriage license you are entering into a legal agreement between you, your spouse and the state in which you reside. Unfortunately the terms of said contract are vague at times and open to reinterpretation to some degree with every divorce case that comes before the court.

Or they can be altered after the fact.

For example: Let's say you were married in 1970 and the divorce law at the time stipulated that you only needed to provide alimony for no more than 12 months. Great.

Lets fast forward to 1990 and you're getting divorced. In the intervening years the law has changed and now your state says that if you are married more than ten years you must pay alimony for life. So you married under a 1970 contract, but your divorce was under 1990 contract terms. Neat. You're screwed unless the law or prior case history says otherwise.

In large measure the church doesn't really have much of anything to do with whether or not you are legally married. Hence you can just see the justice of the peace for a civil ceremony.

The church wedding and princess party is just for public spectacle for most people. I expect for the devout, no matter the faith, that the religious ceremony is the more important part.

To answer your question with my opinion, (though I suspect it was rhetorical) no I don't think anyone needs to have the state involved in their private romantic affairs, gay or straight, nor should they. I think inviting them into that realm is foolish. What the state may give, the state may take, or change in a way not to your liking.

The guv doesn't exactly have the best track record of not screwing things up so inviting them to get involved at a national level in such an important and private things is dumb I think. But, because there is a lot of money involved and money to be made with insurance, benefits, courts, fees, etc. They just couldn't help but be involved or invited to be involved.

Sidenote but related:

Interestingly, there is a small but growing movement among the more hardcore Christians in that they are doing the church ceremony but foregoing the state license for their union. I imagine that their mindset is that marriage is a religious rite and therefore the state should have no involvement. I can agree with the way they see it.
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Old 05-15-2013, 23:14   #37
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Minnesota became the 12th state to legalize same sex marriage yesterday!
The signing ceremony was heavily attended without incident.

It's been a good year for MN, the anti's were stopped from limiting our 2A rights and this passed!

The people voted 'against' amending the constitution to limit marriage to one man and one woman.
MN was the first state to vote 'against' the amendment. Adding this to the ballot was a large mis-calculation for the Republican party.

The gun bills were stopped mainly by the Republicans and fair minded Democrats.
This passed mainly by the Democrats and fair minded Republicans.

BOTH issues had strong 'grassroots' support and hard work by the people!

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/1...l-rights-issue

Fine by me. I don't have an issue with gay people being legally married under their state's laws if that is what they wish to do. So go be the gayest gay that evar gayed and run off hand in hand with your partner to wedded gay-a-dise! The Okie Corral

Pssst....Pro Tip for Gay People: Marriage sucks. Don't do it. What you asked for is not what you want. Serious.

What will be interesting to see is if there are any lawsuits that will come up in the future where a gay couple sues a church for refusing to marry them on the grounds that it is discriminatory, etc. That will be an interesting court case.

I don't know if that will fly but it doesn't mean someone won't try. I'm thinking the right of the church to set the rules for their faith will trump it and I can't imagine the government compelling a religious group to perform a religious ceremony, but then gain...
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Old 05-15-2013, 23:34   #38
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Oh, you poor Christians are being oppressed and are in the minority?

It must be hard finding a place to worship. It's not like you can walk down the street and find a church in every town in every state.

It's not like the currency and the pledge to our flag references your god for no reason.

It's not like a lot of Christian-named hospitals are devoted to a Christian-friendly healing environment with mini churches inside them, complete with pastors and doctors who will pray with you.

It's not like when your holidays come around, the government lets everyone off work and gives you a great deal on a flat screen TV.

What were the last 43 presidents again? Christians, and will probably stay that way because you'll never vote otherwise. That's tolerance there.

It's not like they make you swear to tell the truth by putting your hand on a bible. Oh wait...

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Old 05-15-2013, 23:44   #39
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Fine by me. I don't have an issue with gay people being legally married under their state's laws if that is what they wish to do. So go be the gayest gay that evar gayed and run off hand in hand with your partner to wedded gay-a-dise! The Okie Corral

Pssst....Pro Tip for Gay People: Marriage sucks. Don't do it. What you asked for is not what you want. Serious.

What will be interesting to see is if there are any lawsuits that will come up in the future where a gay couple sues a church for refusing to marry them on the grounds that it is discriminatory, etc. That will be an interesting court case.

I don't know if that will fly but it doesn't mean someone won't try. I'm thinking the right of the church to set the rules for their faith will trump it and I can't imagine the government compelling a religious group to perform a religious ceremony, but then gain...
In this bill legal protection was provided for churches.
IMO that's the right thing to do and I think it played a key role in the bill passing.

Freedom is just that.
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Old 05-15-2013, 23:47   #40
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In this bill legal protection was provided for churches.
IMO that's the right thing to do and I think it played a key role in the bill passing.

Freedom is just that.
Okay.

Even without that in there, I don't think it would have gone down any other way in court. But, you never know. Look at the beef with Obamacare, mandatory birth control benefits and the Catholic church.

Awesome! I knew I'd get Obama in here somehow!
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Old 05-15-2013, 23:49   #41
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man i bet some of you are still pissed off about those uppity women and black folk getting the right to vote too.

seriously, listen to yourselves and read your own posts. you're no better than the ignorant bigots we had 60 years ago.
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Old 05-16-2013, 00:34   #42
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Being able to marry is but a smokescreen for the real agenda: to ram down the collective public's throat the idea that the Gay, Lesbian, Transsexual, ad nauseum, lifestyle is normal and something to ascribe to.

Another step into the abyss.
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Old 05-16-2013, 00:37   #43
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man i bet some of you are still pissed off about those uppity women and black folk getting the right to vote too.

seriously, listen to yourselves and read your own posts. you're no better than the ignorant bigots we had 60 years ago.
And marry.

Wasnt it the 70s when the last state allowed black people to marry whites?
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Old 05-16-2013, 00:41   #44
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Being able to marry is but a smokescreen for the real agenda: to ram down the collective public's throat the idea that the Gay, Lesbian, Transsexual, ad nauseum, lifestyle is normal and something to ascribe to.

Another step into the abyss.
That's bs.

People who feel that they love each other often want to marry.

It is normal to an extent. Who doesnt know or has seen gay people?

Not like its a choice. You didnt choose to like the opposite sex. You just did. The way you are wired. Same with them.

Something to ascribe to? How silly. No one is trying to convert straight people to be gay.
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Old 05-16-2013, 00:45   #45
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Well I certainly disagree with them being able to get married.


But as soon as they awarded rights, and tax brackets, and different insurance rates etc to married people, it pretty much blew that out of the water.
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Old 05-16-2013, 00:52   #46
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Being able to marry is but a smokescreen for the real agenda: to ram down the collective public's throat the idea that the Gay, Lesbian, Transsexual, ad nauseum, lifestyle is normal and something to ascribe to.

Another step into the abyss.
really now? please feel free to explain exactly when society is supposed to finally sink into this abyss considering gay and lesbian people have been around since man started recording history.
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:47   #47
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That's bs.

People who feel that they love each other often want to marry.

It is normal to an extent. Who doesnt know or has seen gay people?

Not like its a choice. You didnt choose to like the opposite sex. You just did. The way you are wired. Same with them.

Something to ascribe to? How silly. No one is trying to convert straight people to be gay.


For clarification by stating "ascribe to" I mean as celebrating aberrant behavior as normal.

After all, if people are born gay then homosexuality, in evolutionary terms, cannot be solely genetic because otherwise the trait would have disappeared because gay people are far less likely to reproduce.
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:20   #48
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Read the history of the bill in Minnesota people. This was a well-crafted strategy to normalize and brainwash the public into the acceptance of what has always been unacceptable and against human nature. It has no relation to slavery or women voting. Voters are like zombies, acting on their masters orders and are afraid to stand up and say that the emporer has no clothes.
People are born pedophiles. People are born polyamorous. What's the trouble with those lifestyles? Surely if the parties are consenting, no harm no foul.
Read the history of this bill. Under popular vote, this would have failed big time.
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:33   #49
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Being able to marry is but a smokescreen for the real agenda: to ram down the collective public's throat the idea that the Gay, Lesbian, Transsexual, ad nauseum, lifestyle is normal and something to ascribe to.

Another step into the abyss.
Ahhh, so which one are you going to "chose"? I think you might make a great Lesbian.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:31   #50
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Oh, you poor Christians are being oppressed and are in the minority?

It must be hard finding a place to worship. It's not like you can walk down the street and find a church in every town in every state.

It's not like the currency and the pledge to our flag references your god for no reason.

It's not like a lot of Christian-named hospitals are devoted to a Christian-friendly healing environment with mini churches inside them, complete with pastors and doctors who will pray with you.

It's not like when your holidays come around, the government lets everyone off work and gives you a great deal on a flat screen TV.

What were the last 43 presidents again? Christians, and will probably stay that way because you'll never vote otherwise. That's tolerance there.

It's not like they make you swear to tell the truth by putting your hand on a bible. Oh wait...

Obligatory meme:

The Okie Corral


I love it. Bible thumpers are the death to the GOP.

Truth be told, bible thumping bigots are a big reason why Obama won 2012. Thanks bible thumpers! What other failure liberal democrats can you help get elected by ruining the opposing party?
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