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Old 05-15-2013, 08:28   #1
sawgrass
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Minnesota Legalizes Same Sex Marriage

Minnesota became the 12th state to legalize same sex marriage yesterday!
The signing ceremony was heavily attended without incident.

It's been a good year for MN, the anti's were stopped from limiting our 2A rights and this passed!

The people voted 'against' amending the constitution to limit marriage to one man and one woman.
MN was the first state to vote 'against' the amendment. Adding this to the ballot was a large mis-calculation for the Republican party.

The gun bills were stopped mainly by the Republicans and fair minded Democrats.
This passed mainly by the Democrats and fair minded Republicans.

BOTH issues had strong 'grassroots' support and hard work by the people!

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/1...l-rights-issue
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:32   #2
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At one point, I was totally against this. Now? This isn't a legislative issue. What WILL be an issue is re-defining life-partner for health insurance purposes. THAT is going to get expensive and this is an opening into that. And it's not my job to figure it out, thankfully.

I have my religious beliefs on it. And so did 1st century Christians on the Roman empire. Strange how Paul, Peter and John never ran for public office.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:39   #3
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YEAH! Another domino falls.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:41   #4
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I'm till trying to figure out why any government body needs to be involved in "marriage". Do we really need the governments official blessing to be married to someone?
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:49   #5
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I'm till trying to figure out why any government body needs to be involved in "marriage". Do we really need the governments official blessing to be married to someone?
Legal rights. Spouses haves them. Relating to property and children.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:00   #6
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I am still waiting for Polygamy to become legal in the states eyes.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:08   #7
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Forget polygamy - what happens when my dog sues me for visitation? Then where will we be? LOL
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:11   #8
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Legal rights. Spouses haves them. Relating to property and children.
And again, why is the government involved?
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:30   #9
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I am still waiting for Polygamy to become legal in the states eyes.

Why not? Polygamous relationships do not hurt anyone as long as it's between consenting adults.

Sounds sort of like the argument liberals blow out of proportion with guns. "omg ak-47s legalized? what next? an rpg? a tank? a NUKE?!"
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:30   #10
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And again, why is the government involved?
Because one of the jobs of the government is to enforce contracts.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:31   #11
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Because one of the jobs of the government is to enforce contracts.

If the contract is broken.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:09   #12
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Because one of the jobs of the government is to enforce contracts.
Sounds like a civil matter to me and only when said contract is broken. Besides, who ever said that "marriage" is a contract?
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:11   #13
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This is the state that made Al Franken a Senator- right ? ...

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Old 05-15-2013, 10:12   #14
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Good.

There's not reason for it to be illegal.

Only reason it is in most states is because a bunch of nosy people think they have the right to tell others how to live their lives.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:16   #15
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Good.

There's not reason for it to be illegal.

Only reason it is in most states is because a bunch of nosy people think they have the right to tell others how to live their lives.

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Old 05-15-2013, 10:22   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarpleyg View Post
Sounds like a civil matter to me and only when said contract is broken. Besides, who ever said that "marriage" is a contract?
Whoever said its not a contract? That's all it is.

Its a document that ties two people together, giving them certain rights over non married couples and financial ties/responsibilities, and a few other legal rights.

Forget about "why should the govt be involved" for a sec.

How about "why shouldnt gays be allowed the same rights as a straight couple? "

No one can come up with a reason that isnt motivated by religion or because THEY dont like it. There is no logic in the nay sayers opinion. They're just like gun grabbing liberals. Trying to force their views on others.

Worse though, because they are trying to stop two people from doing something that affects no one but the two people.

As for your question on why the govt should be involved...I dont think it matters much. They are involved and thats not going to change. There is no movement for it to change.

Last edited by jp3975; 05-15-2013 at 10:22..
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:38   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarpleyg View Post
Sounds like a civil matter to me and only when said contract is broken. Besides, who ever said that "marriage" is a contract?
Marriage is a contract when/if you obtain a license to marry.
People do this voluntarily.


I am not saying that I agree or disagree with government involvement in marriage, only stating the legal reality.


Society-wide, the legalities of marriage encompass many legal matters, as everyone knows. Many of those legal matters involve insurance companies, banks, and government "entitlements" (SS benefits, etc).
All of which means money, and a lot of it. Of course the government is going to be involved.



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Old 05-15-2013, 10:47   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jp3975 View Post
Whoever said its not a contract? That's all it is.

Its a document that ties two people together, giving them certain rights over non married couples and financial ties/responsibilities, and a few other legal rights.

Forget about "why should the govt be involved" for a sec.

How about "why shouldnt gays be allowed the same rights as a straight couple? "

No one can come up with a reason that isnt motivated by religion or because THEY dont like it. There is no logic in the nay sayers opinion. They're just like gun grabbing liberals. Trying to force their views on others.

Worse though, because they are trying to stop two people from doing something that affects no one but the two people.

As for your question on why the govt should be involved...I dont think it matters much. They are involved and thats not going to change. There is no movement for it to change.
I'm agreeing with you. My point is who and why was it decided that "marriage" was a legal status? Different folks define "marriage" differently. I see my marriage to my wife as a bond before God, not before the State of Texas or any other place I might happen to live. Others see it differently and I have no problem with it. Where the problem lies is when unscrupulous entities such as insurance companies come along and try to weasel out of commitments behind the color of law.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:52   #19
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I'm agreeing with you. My point is who and why was it decided that "marriage" was a legal status? .
It's decided by each couple who go the local courthouse to obtain a marriage license.

People were marrying in America long before there was a marriage license. People still do marry without benefit of a license. It's legal to do so.

The difference is that without the license you forgo the legal benefit of having government sanction the marriage.

Marrying with license is a legal privilege.
You accept that privilege voluntarily.
If you accept that privilege then you accept the legal liability.

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Old 05-15-2013, 10:59   #20
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...
Worse though, because they are trying to stop two people from doing something that affects no one but the two people.
...

Not correct.
It affects everyone because it affects the definition of marriage in American society, which has HUGE economic effect.


I am NOT expressing an opinion of gay marriage here, "pro or con", only pointing out the facts.


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Old 05-15-2013, 11:01   #21
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
It's decided by each couple who go the local courthouse to obtain a marriage license.

People were marrying in America long before there was a marriage license. People still do marry without benefit of a license. It's legal to do so.

The difference is that without the license you forgo the legal benefit of having government sanction the marriage.

Marrying with license is a legal privilege.
You accept that privilege voluntarily.
If you accept that privilege then you accept the legal liability.

.
I do not recall it as being voluntary when I got married 13 years ago. Now, maybe that was just my young ignorance coming out, but I don't think anyone ever explained that we could get married otherwise. If so, I would've opted out but you're right, it would've presented some challenges along the way. I suppose this is what Texas and other states refer to as "common law" marriage?
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:04   #22
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.. I suppose this is what Texas and other states refer to as "common law" marriage?
Yes, it is.

Some believe that marriage sanctified by a minister before God is all they want or need. I've known two couples who did this.

Legally, they are married, but they forgo many of the legal benefits of licensed, state-sanctioned marriage. (insurance, etc)


Quote:
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I do not recall it as being voluntary when I got married 13 years ago. Now, maybe that was just my young ignorance coming out, but I don't think anyone ever explained that we could get married otherwise....
"Anyone"... like who?
The government assumes that when you apply for a government licensed privilege, you know what you're doing. It's a voluntary act.



I think there should be a sign posted which reads "Are you SURE you want to do this?" above the door to any government office which interacts with the public.


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Old 05-15-2013, 11:47   #23
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:57   #24
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I am still waiting for Polygamy to become legal in the states eyes.

How far can that be? Not far really. As long as it's mutually agreable, as it seems no limit to what's the norm.

Being a Christian and now, maybe a minority, soon to become protected (seein's how we're thiiiis close to being a special interest group,) I'm not thrilled with this- just from a morality standpoint. But that just my opinion.
Two people love each other, great, but my scripture-based backround (which you may now begin to pick apart, church and state, yadda yadda) tells me this is wrong. Separation of Church and State is a joke. How long before the Churches who refuse to perform same-sex marraiges and speak against it are charged with hate speech?

Last year there was an ammendment proposal in which liberals cleverly changed the wording of the bill, then the phrasing of "Vote Yes" to "Vote No" to an ammendment limiting marriage to that between a man and a woman. So, many people who don't pay attention voted for what they thought was a vote against gay marriage. Their fault. At the time of this ammendment, the GLBT lobby was very clear about this is all we want, no more.
This year, they bludgeon the public with a legalization Bill, calling any and all who oppose haters, bigots, etc- whatever it took to pass this Bill. The Bill passed when many senators, both Republican and Democrat voted against the wishes of their constituents in order to save their images(from hater, bigot).
This won't cost the tax payers a thing was the rallying cry.
The Bill passes and suddenly the Wabasha Street bridge has been renamed "Freedom To Marry" bridge. Public workers then appear and place rainbow flags along the bridge. Mpls did the same, only they turned their lights to rainbow lights. A huge party was thrown on the Capitol lawn, complete with music, a public signing of the Bill and security, etc- all that is required.
For not costing the tax payers anything, they sure racked up a nice bill in just one day. I can't recall a Bill where there was a state-sponsored party.

The State should not be involved in who you can marry- it should have been a non-factor from the beginning. Wanna get married, go ahead!
The State should also not be involved in forcing this issue on the voters, making any and all who oppose a villian. Make no mistake, this was forced and rammed through by the State. In a straight out popular vote with clear wording, this would have overwhelmingly failed.This is just another liberal tactic to grab money and demonize any last vestiges of evil Christians.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:16   #25
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Well, that didn't take long...
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