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Old 05-15-2013, 08:25   #101
DanaT
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Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post

You are saying that 1/3 of the population is alcoholic and 1/3 is criminal, with no overlap. It's probably less than 20% (maybe 10%) combined, if I had to guess. But it isn't 2/3.
I read it at 1/3 or the population that get popped for a DUI. Not 1/3 of the USA population.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:27   #102
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While I have no pity for those who drink and drive,
this introduction to lower the BAC is strictly a revenue maker.

Like everything else with this Odummo Administration, it's
all about stealing from the honest, hard working persons in
Society and giving the the lowly, bottom feeding scum.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:33   #103
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
I read it at 1/3 or the population that get popped for a DUI. Not 1/3 of the USA population.
Oh. LOL

I'd say 10 years ago, it was higher average of casual drinkers. Today it's flip-flopped. Only the truly stupid or habitually driven are willing to get bagged for DUI.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:55   #104
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I think it quite interesting of a topic.

As you might know, I spend a significant amount of time in Germany. I tend to have liquid intake quite similar to germans when there. Downing 2 beers (33.8 oz total of "normal" ABV beer) is "normal" with dinner or even just sitting in a Beirgarten.

I wont drive after 2 beers, but after 1 liter of beer, you cannot tell any visual impairment by most of the people I drink with or myself. Yes, there is probably some, but you would not look at the people and say they are "drunk".

People have in their mind "drunks" when talking about "drunk driving". We all know what a "drunk" acts like. The 0.08 is well below what people have in their mind about being "drunk".
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Old 05-15-2013, 14:58   #105
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There was a show called Ice Road Truckers about drivers who hauled in Alaska and Canada, Anyway, they had a series of shows where the drivers were sent to India to make some long hauls. Downright scary!!! I'd never get behind the wheel in that country. If I recall correctly, one of the drivers actually walked off and flew home in the middle of the series.
The thing I find interesting about what people claim driving is like in a particular place, is that it is very subjective. For example, if you ask somebody who has never driven in NYC about what it's like to drive there, most would probably say that it is crazy or scary, just because it's what they heard. When I came here, I expected the same. But the reality is quite different. Yes, some people are crazy, yes traffic gets bad, and yes, driving in Manhattan takes a bit of experience to do well, but it's not bad at all. I've been driving here for 2 years, one of those years in Manhattan daily. People told me the same thing about driving in Puerto Rico, and even said that they refuse to get behind the wheel there. When I was there maybe 6 months ago, I rented a car. Driving there was far more mild than even NYC.
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Old 05-15-2013, 15:37   #106
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People told me the same thing about driving in Puerto Rico, and even said that they refuse to get behind the wheel there. When I was there maybe 6 months ago, I rented a car. Driving there was far more mild than even NYC.

PR is just a hint of Caribbean driving. The further South you go the worse it gets.

Grand Cayman? Meh... left side driving, left side driving cars for the most part and everyone is secretly from Canada.

Avoid the Dominican at all costs. Just trust me unless you get all available insurance and have diplomatic immunity and cash on hand.

Trinidad?

My first visit I was placed in a right seat driver, manual transmission Ford Ranger and left handed traffic.

At least they have good food.
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Old 05-15-2013, 18:48   #107
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PR is just a hint of Caribbean driving. The further South you go the worse it gets.

Grand Cayman? Meh... left side driving, left side driving cars for the most part and everyone is secretly from Canada.

Avoid the Dominican at all costs. Just trust me unless you get all available insurance and have diplomatic immunity and cash on hand.

Trinidad?

My first visit I was placed in a right seat driver, manual transmission Ford Ranger and left handed traffic.

At least they have good food.
HAHA!! Just got back from a week of commuting in the Trini!!
Doubles in the morning and roti in the evening.

Gotta tell you, the highway between the airport and Port of Spain has got to be one the most dangerous stretches of road anywhere! It's 15 miles and straight as an arrow...yet not a single time...no exaggeration, not one single time in a week's worth of back and forth commuting did I not encounter at least one car flipped over and/or off into the ditch with people laying along side the road.

It's not like India where people have no concept of lanes...people actually stayed in their lanes at a reasonable speed...but roughly 10% of the drivers drove without any sense of consequence. If you ever want to see a perfect example of the few ruining it all for the many, just look at that short stretch of highway.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:26   #108
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It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if they did away with alcoholic beverages. My Dad was an alcoholic and both my mom and I suffered his wrath when he got drunk. Beatings and verbal abuse were common.

Years later when I joined the fire department and driving an ambulance as a side job at the same time, I got to see the other results of drunk driving. One of the worst before I retired was a head on collision on a city street where the speed limit was 45 mph.

Grandparents were taking their grandsons to meet their mother at the airport as she returned from a short trip. The drunk driver crossed the center line and hit the van head on at 70 mph, killing the grandfather and one of the grandsons.

The drunk driver was laughing as she was being loaded into the ambulance with only a broken leg repeating over and over who HER grandfather was and it was not a problem. Her grandfather was a former Senator and local politician who was rich from oilfield money.

I got to help load her in the ambulance and remember having to control my temper. A short time later, I had to help cut the grandfather and his grandson out of the car.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:21   #109
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Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
What is the DD Accident rate vs. previous time? What is the overall accident rate vs. previous time? THAT would be a better indicator, yes? Deaths is so specific.

I still say we have less DD deaths b/c people are scared crapless to drive even mildly buzzed. IT's not killing people, it's getting caught and losing (or loosing, in GNG) your license. But without proper stats, I'm blowin out dabutthole.

I would guess that if you looked at the BAC of people in fatal crashes most were well above the .08% limit. That limit didn't prevent them from driving nor would a lower limit. Point is, a lower BAC % isn't going to reduce alcohol related accidents. Just like gun control restrictions don't prevent people from committing crimes with guns, alcohol restrictions don't prevent people from driving after drinking. I am against a lower BAC.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:48   #110
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Originally Posted by Firecop203 View Post
It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if they did away with alcoholic beverages. My Dad was an alcoholic and both my mom and I suffered his wrath when he got drunk. Beatings and verbal abuse were common.

Years later when I joined the fire department and driving an ambulance as a side job at the same time, I got to see the other results of drunk driving. One of the worst before I retired was a head on collision on a city street where the speed limit was 45 mph.

Grandparents were taking their grandsons to meet their mother at the airport as she returned from a short trip. The drunk driver crossed the center line and hit the van head on at 70 mph, killing the grandfather and one of the grandsons.

The drunk driver was laughing as she was being loaded into the ambulance with only a broken leg repeating over and over who HER grandfather was and it was not a problem. Her grandfather was a former Senator and local politician who was rich from oilfield money.

I got to help load her in the ambulance and remember having to control my temper. A short time later, I had to help cut the grandfather and his grandson out of the car.
Proponents of gun control use the same arguments of broken families, dead people, dead children, etc to justify their bans.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:03   #111
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I think it quite interesting of a topic.

As you might know, I spend a significant amount of time in Germany. I tend to have liquid intake quite similar to germans when there. Downing 2 beers (33.8 oz total of "normal" ABV beer) is "normal" with dinner or even just sitting in a Beirgarten.

I wont drive after 2 beers, but after 1 liter of beer, you cannot tell any visual impairment by most of the people I drink with or myself. Yes, there is probably some, but you would not look at the people and say they are "drunk".

People have in their mind "drunks" when talking about "drunk driving". We all know what a "drunk" acts like. The 0.08 is well below what people have in their mind about being "drunk".
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I would guess that if you looked at the BAC of people in fatal crashes most were well above the .08% limit. That limit didn't prevent them from driving nor would a lower limit. Point is, a lower BAC % isn't going to reduce alcohol related accidents. Just like gun control restrictions don't prevent people from committing crimes with guns, alcohol restrictions don't prevent people from driving after drinking. I am against a lower BAC.
I'm also against a lower BAC limit. Deadly accidents happen to sober people also. Sometimes stuff just happens, no matter what. But one or two 12 oz beers with a meal doesn't hurt anything.

Problem is trying to prove to you only had one or two if they even smell it on your breath. Just google the standardized field sobriety test and read all the instructions and tell me if you could pass it at 0-dark thirty with cruiser lights flashing all around you, even if you are stone cold sober.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:06   #112
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Proponents of gun control use the same arguments of broken families, dead people, dead children, etc to justify their bans.
I see your point and reasoning. I'm just stating my personal experiences and what made me the way I am.

One of the most infamous post office shooting incidents occurred about 20 miles from my last residence and I was in the same military unit and knew the guy who did it. But, I'm not against guns or in favor of stricter gun controls.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:06   #113
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Problem is trying to prove to you only had one or two if they even smell it on your breath. Just google the standardized field sobriety test and read all the instructions and tell me if you could pass it at 0-dark thirty with cruiser lights flashing all around you, even if you are stone cold sober.
You cannot pass a subjective test if the tester wants you to fail.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:07   #114
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I see your point and reasoning. I'm just stating my personal experiences and what made me the way I am.

One of the most infamous post office shooting incidents occurred about 20 miles from my last residence and I was in the same military unit and knew the guy who did it. But, I'm not against guns or in favor of stricter gun controls.
That is because you chose which "poisons" you think are acceptable.

Dont worry, many gun control proponents also chose their "poison" and are "OK" with alcohol related deaths and not changing the laws.
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Old 05-16-2013, 22:38   #115
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I think .05 is needless. Better is when there's a law allowing LEO's to stop people who are obviously impaired regardless of their BAC. Haven't drunk in 13 years but I couldn't pass a FST.

I've seen teens out cold at .07, and habitual drinkers walking and talking at .67 (.5 and above is considered the lethal range. Practice makes perfect).

A diabetic with low blood sugar, somebody on other drugs, a medical problem, me after working all night and nodding at the wheel, can all cause dangerous driving. All need to be off the road.
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Old 05-16-2013, 23:57   #116
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You know, I'm going to be honest here, and I'll probably get banged out of this thread for it.

I'm for civil liberties as much as the next guy. But the fact that there are people here so adamant that we shouldn't do this? Surprises the **** out of me. Maybe it's because about a year ago I worked at a drive thru, and saw how many people actually drive while drunk or high on something.

I could see arguing that maybe between .05 and .08 shouldn't be "as bad or worse" than breaking the .08 limit, but come on, how hard is it to not drink alcohol before driving?

Maybe I'm biased, because I've been exposed to so many reckless alcoholics but if it were up to me the limit would be zero, or close to it.

And maybe it's because every dashcam video of a drunk being pulled over I've ever seen on TV starts with "have you been drinking tonight?" "yeah, 2 or 3 beers...."


It's like MADD is the new brady campaign all of a sudden.
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Old 05-17-2013, 00:12   #117
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You know, I'm going to be honest here, and I'll probably get banged out of this thread for it.

I'm for civil liberties as much as the next guy. But the fact that there are people here so adamant that we shouldn't do this? Surprises the **** out of me. Maybe it's because about a year ago I worked at a drive thru, and saw how many people actually drive while drunk or high on something.

I could see arguing that maybe between .05 and .08 shouldn't be "as bad or worse" than breaking the .08 limit, but come on, how hard is it to not drink alcohol before driving?

Maybe I'm biased, because I've been exposed to so many reckless alcoholics but if it were up to me the limit would be zero, or close to it.

And maybe it's because every dashcam video of a drunk being pulled over I've ever seen on TV starts with "have you been drinking tonight?" "yeah, 2 or 3 beers...."


It's like MADD is the new brady campaign all of a sudden.
See my previous two posts in this thread on this subject; MADD has NOT endorsed this recommendation.
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Old 05-17-2013, 00:17   #118
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See my previous two posts in this thread on this subject; MADD has NOT endorsed this recommendation.
MADD has been mentioned in previous replies, and frankly I don't care.

I just don't understand the fierce support of the liberty to drive with a BAC between .05 and .07
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Old 05-17-2013, 00:28   #119
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]MADD has been mentioned in previous replies, and frankly I don't care.[/B]
...
Right, why be diverted by the facts?
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Old 05-17-2013, 00:34   #120
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Right, why be diverted by the facts?
Okay, will it make you feel better if I edit my posts? I don't remember saying "madd supports this". I believe I said "it's like madd is the new brady campaign or something."

Because somehow, I got it into my head, which is currently sleep deprived thanks to a massive headache, that some people brought up madd earlier in this thread.

Frankly, I don't care if they support it or not.

My reply was about my surprise that this is actually worth fighting over with some of the people here, but you've missile locked on that last sentence.

I guess I'm a socialist or something because I don't see any good reason to fight for the liberty to drive with a BAC between .05 and .07.
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Old 05-17-2013, 00:38   #121
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That is because you chose which "poisons" you think are acceptable.

Dont worry, many gun control proponents also chose their "poison" and are "OK" with alcohol related deaths and not changing the laws.
It's not the same.

That .05 BAC won't save anyone's life.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:07   #122
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It's not the same.

That .05 BAC won't save anyone's life.
Bingo.

A sure sign someone's argument is weak or non-existent is if they have to support it with lies. MADD and NHTSA have been lying about drunk drivers and their BAC levels for years.

http://www.getmadd.com/index.htm
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:45   #123
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In my short career, I have yet to see an actual .08 driver who was good to go.

I've seen several .06 drivers who, based on my training and experience were far more intoxicated than that. Toxicology reports indicated exceptional cocaine, marijuana and pill use.

DUI is not just alcohol.
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:08   #124
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Bingo.

A sure sign someone's argument is weak or non-existent is if they have to support it with lies. MADD and NHTSA have been lying about drunk drivers and their BAC levels for years.

http://www.getmadd.com/index.htm
That website seems legit.


You can agree to disagree, or you can try to tell me how wrong I am. Unless you can prove to me that a .05 isn't at least mildly impaired compared to a completely sober driver, I don't see how this is the end of the world.


I'm curious what a bunch of police officers would say about .05-.07 drivers and how safe they are.

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Old 05-17-2013, 02:42   #125
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That website seems legit.


You can agree to disagree, or you can try to tell me how wrong I am. Unless you can prove to me that a .05 isn't at least mildly impaired compared to a completely sober driver, I don't see how this is the end of the world.


I'm curious what a bunch of police officers would say about .05-.07 drivers and how safe they are.
I'd say that, statistically, drivers with .05 BAC exhibit:

Quote:
people begin to exhibit exaggerated behavior, experience loss of small-muscle control -- such as being able to focus their eyes quickly -- have impaired judgment, lowered alertness and a release of inhibition.
If someone with a BAC level of .05 gets behind the wheel, they would be operating the vehicle with reduce coordination, a futher deminished ability to track moving objects, more difficulty in steering and a markedly reduced response in emergency situations.
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/dui/a/impaired.htm

It is also verbatim in several NHTSA textbooks, that was pulled right off of google since I don't have my ADAP books in front of me.

I just don't understand it, I drank when I was in college and still have a few a year (not to the point of losing control but I still don't drive) but why somebody would become voluntarily intoxicated and then get behind the wheel of a 2200-???? pound missile cruising anywhere from 30-55+ MPH. You are putting yourself and everyone on the roadway in immense, unneeded danger.

It is not an enforcement problem, we are out there, we do what we can, we have OVI blitzes, we put extra cars on the roadway on 'drinking' holidays and weekends. Only to have it pled out. The court system is almost a joke nowadays for first or second time offenders. Then I hear and read people saying they only had a couple and got their 'first dewey'...everyone got their first. The guy with 10 OVI's who just got sent to prison got his first at one time...when will it stop?
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