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Old 06-04-2013, 11:11   #1
TBO
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West Haven cops arrest Derby man for refusal to show gun permit

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...mode=fullstory
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:51   #2
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wow.
I was almost certain his name would be Embody as I read the article.....
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Old 06-04-2013, 13:11   #3
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If he had just shown his permit he could have went about his day. Stupid should hurt.
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Old 06-04-2013, 13:59   #4
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This is looking like a "terry stop" or whatever they're called.

What law did he break to be stopped by police?

The commenters have a point, you don't get pulled over and asked for your license just because you're driving a car.

There has to be an infraction. (or should be)

Last edited by KevinFACE; 06-04-2013 at 14:00..
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Old 06-04-2013, 14:00   #5
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Nevermind. NH for New Haven, NOT New Hampshire.

I will say "SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS!"
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Old 06-04-2013, 14:08   #6
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This is a classic case of being guilty until proven innocent. I thought only the IRS could get away with that.
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Old 06-04-2013, 14:44   #7
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If the police see a person wearing a gun, and ask for his permit, they are "jack-booted thugs".

If the police see a person and ignore him, and the guy shoots, they get castigated for not preventing it.

Either way, the cops get pooped on.
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Old 06-04-2013, 14:57   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFACE View Post
This is looking like a "terry stop" or whatever they're called.

What law did he break to be stopped by police?

The commenters have a point, you don't get pulled over and asked for your license just because you're driving a car.

There has to be an infraction. (or should be)
Did you read the law?
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Old 06-04-2013, 15:56   #9
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Did you read the law?
i'll help .........

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

(b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section 29-28 shall carry such permit upon one's person while carrying such pistol or revolver.



if you are displaying a pistol in plain view I HAVE "PROBABLY CAUSE" TO CHECK TO SEE IF YOU ARE CARRYING YOUR PERMIT.
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Old 06-04-2013, 16:11   #10
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Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
If the police see a person wearing a gun, and ask for his permit, they are "jack-booted thugs".

If the police see a person and ignore him, and the guy shoots, they get castigated for not preventing it.

Either way, the cops get pooped on.
+1
Why go out of your way to antagonize LEO's doing their job?
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Old 06-04-2013, 16:59   #11
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I wonder if he actually consulted an attorney, preferably one who has spent a fair amount of time arguing Constitutional issues before various courts, to determine whether or not he had a Constitutional right to not show his permit, or if he just used the internet.
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Old 06-04-2013, 17:16   #12
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So, by this same logic. If you see some driving a car, that is probable cause to stop them to check their license.
Really?
You mau consider a refresher course on what probable cause I'd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papajohn View Post
i'll help .........

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

(b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section 29-28 shall carry such permit upon one's person while carrying such pistol or revolver.



if you are displaying a pistol in plain view I HAVE "PROBABLY CAUSE" TO CHECK TO SEE IF YOU ARE CARRYING YOUR PERMIT.
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Old 06-04-2013, 17:43   #13
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Playing devils advocate here

When is the last time a police officer pulled you over and said "you were doing nothing wrong but I just wanted to see if you actually have a drivers license"? The Police see hundreds of people every day simply driving down the road... do they stop them without observing some sort of infraction? One could argue that officers check your license without provocation at a check point but even those are typically pre-authorized, signed off on by a Judge and notice given to the public.
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Old 06-04-2013, 17:45   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papajohn View Post
i'll help .........

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

(b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section 29-28 shall carry such permit upon one's person while carrying such pistol or revolver.



if you are displaying a pistol in plain view I HAVE "PROBABLY CAUSE" TO CHECK TO SEE IF YOU ARE CARRYING YOUR PERMIT.
Do you have probable cause to stop motorists (required to have DL, registration and proof of insurance) just to do a papers check????
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Old 06-04-2013, 17:56   #15
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Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
If the police see a person wearing a gun, and ask for his permit, they are "jack-booted thugs".

If the police see a person and ignore him, and the guy shoots, they get castigated for not preventing it.

Either way, the cops get pooped on.
It's a poopy job.

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Old 06-04-2013, 18:34   #16
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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
Playing devils advocate here

When is the last time a police officer pulled you over and said "you were doing nothing wrong but I just wanted to see if you actually have a drivers license"? The Police see hundreds of people every day simply driving down the road... do they stop them without observing some sort of infraction? One could argue that officers check your license without provocation at a check point but even those are typically pre-authorized, signed off on by a Judge and notice given to the public.
Going to have to jump on this one... police pull people over routinely for no reason at all, and MAKE UP an infraction, like going a mile or two over the speed limit or, and i love this one, passing over the double yellow or solid white line in a no passing zone. I got pulled over for doing 46 in a 35 even though I was sitting AT A RED LIGHT. You should have seen that POS lying cop's face when I presented the video to the judge, and you should have heard him try to explain away the fact that he gave me a no seat belt ticket just because I took it off to get my wallet out AT HIS REQUEST.

When police tell you there is no quota, it's a bold faced lie. It's like saying there is no "code red" in the military ("A few Good Men" anyone?) Just because it doesn't officially exist, doesn't mean it doesn't really exist. I have former LEO friends that tell me the quota is alive and well because cops are disciplined for not issuing enough tickets in a month.... especially motorcycle cops since that's their primary job to begin with. So does it happen? Do they pull you over for no apparent reason whatsoever? Hell yes, they do, and they will lie right to your face, then lie right to the judge's face. That's why I have hidden camera dvr's setup in my truck. They catch the dashboard so if I am pulled over for speeding, the actual speed is recorded the second the cop's lights go on; to the front of the vehicle and to the rear of the vehicle to catch the location of the cop when whatever infraction is supposed to occur, and to both side windows to catch the cop when the approach and start trumping things up, and that's how I got that cop lying and making up tickets. I even WARNED him that my speed is tracked on GPS and my vehicle records everything. He thought I was lying. Sadly they refused to prosecute him even though I had him on camera breaking the law and wanted to file charges.

Now to the original topic... if you carry a gun, the supreme court ruled that doing so is not without its limits. The LEO had every right to ask because carrying a gun and driving a car is TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. besides, if it was a very young looking kid behind the wheel of the car, it would make sense to pull him over to make sure he's old enough, no?
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Old 06-04-2013, 18:53   #17
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We have check points set up here all the time. If you are driving you have to show your license. If you break out of line and do a U-turn you will be stopped and really checked out.
Do I think the dude was doing anything illegal? No.
Do I think the dude was acting stupid? Oh hell yes.

If a cop asks for your carry permit or your drivers license, just show it to them.
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Old 06-04-2013, 19:59   #18
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We have check points set up here all the time. If you are driving you have to show your license. If you break out of line and do a U-turn you will be stopped and really checked out.
Do I think the dude was doing anything illegal? No.
Do I think the dude was acting stupid? Oh hell yes.

If a cop asks for your carry permit or your drivers license, just show it to them.
Yeap, just show it to them. It's the say as saying, sure search me car/house/mypersons, I have nothing to hide



The question b4 the court by the defendant is ; "Just a meer having a gun openly, is that justification to be stop and search"

I think this is what/where it would be headed to. I think , does a individual that openly carries a gun, is subject for police stop, question, and search ( and yes that what they did )

I 'll leave you with this;

Quote:

State Police personnel should not request individuals to produce their pistol permits unless such individual has become the subject of a law enforcement investigative inquiry for another reason
http://radioviceonline.com/yes-you-c...n-connecticut/
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Old 06-04-2013, 20:29   #19
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One guy was arrested, one wasn't.

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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 06-04-2013, 21:23   #20
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Some guys posting need to realize that CT does not have a culture of open carry. POST, the police training governing body decreed that OC or accidental exposure of a handgun was a crime (Breach of Peace). Recent court decisions have reversed this, but it's still not as comonly known as you'd think.

OC is a rare bird in CT. Not justifying the actions, just telling you it ain't Texas.
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