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Old 07-16-2013, 15:01   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
No it's not! Warp said so above!
You are absolutely correct.

A firearm kept for home defense does not have to be condition 1 (loaded mag, round chambered) in order to be better than a brick/brass knuckles/rock
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Old 07-16-2013, 15:39   #462
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My gosh...... this thread is still going...
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Old 07-16-2013, 18:54   #463
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Originally Posted by SGT278ACR View Post
My gosh...... this thread is still going...
These miserable threads never die. They just go on and on and on and on and on. They morph into another stupid thread about some other ridiculous type of safety device or carry it empty, or store the magazine separately. For god's sake I don't know why people even buy Glocks then try to church them up with safety blocks, thumb safeties, carry on an empty chamber. Yada, yada, yada. It kills me.

Do these same people drive their cars with two or three seatbelts, while wearing a helmet, wrapped in bubble wrap. You are far more likely to get killed in a car than by a gun.

Keep the gun in a quick action safe if you must, keep your friggin finger off the trigger. SIMPLE.
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Old 07-16-2013, 19:39   #464
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Loaded. Same as CCW mentality. I dont have any kids yet. That might change. But for now it is just me and my wife. I dont know what I will encounter. I could be fending someone off with one arm. If my Glock was not loaded, it makes it that much harder trying to chamber a round with only one hand and fighting someone off you.
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Old 07-16-2013, 22:58   #465
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Your bedside glock loaded or unloaded

S&W 37 airwght on my bible at body level center of headboard. Yes it's loaded with +pJHP. A light and cell at arms length top of headboard my side. My side of bead to the door meaning you must go through me to get to my wife. 12ga loaded with 6 1oz slugs next to bed my side
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:58   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
You are absolutely correct.

A firearm kept for home defense does not have to be condition 1 (loaded mag, round chambered) in order to be better than a brick/brass knuckles/rock
But you cannot deny that the pistol is nothing more than an ergonomic brick until the slide is racked and a gun powder propelled projectile resides in the chamber. I highly doubt pulling the trigger on an empty chamber would do much to stop a threat. I could be incorrect though as I have fortunately never been in a self defense situation with my pistol and hope I never am.

Last edited by Roger1079; 07-18-2013 at 05:01..
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:39   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
But you cannot deny that the pistol is nothing more than an ergonomic brick until the slide is racked and a gun powder propelled projectile resides in the chamber. I highly doubt pulling the trigger on an empty chamber would do much to stop a threat. I could be incorrect though as I have fortunately never been in a self defense situation with my pistol and hope I never am.
Unloaded, a gun is admittedly a chunk of metal/plastic, and a weapon of about the same value as a rock.

It is the silly assumption that one can't quickly rack a slide that is in question...

Based upon my house and my room location, time to rack a slide is far less critical than other criteria (again... for me, your house may not be as large, oddly-shaped, or as well prepared for intruders).
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:41   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boilergonzo View Post
Unloaded, a gun is admittedly a chunk of metal/plastic, and a weapon of about the same value as a rock.

It is the silly assumption that one can't quickly rack a slide that is in question...

Based upon my house and my room location, time to rack a slide is far less critical than other criteria (again... for me, your house may not be as large, oddly-shaped, or as well prepared for intruders).
I have an alarm, deadbolts, and door locks. The only thing missing is a big dog with not so great people skills.

I can agree with you that if someone enters your home uninvited and making noise, that racking the slide takes only a second and can almost certainly be done long before the threat reaches you. With your other safety concerns with children, I completely understand your bedside decision.

My post was in response to Warp disagreeing that an unchambered weapon is as useful as a hammer. The negligible time to rack the slide wasn't even a consideration with my post.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:08   #469
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I have a loaded G17 and a Mossberg M500 12ga SG on my bed.
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Old 07-18-2013, 14:47   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
I have an alarm, deadbolts, and door locks. The only thing missing is a big dog with not so great people skills.

I can agree with you that if someone enters your home uninvited and making noise, that racking the slide takes only a second and can almost certainly be done long before the threat reaches you. With your other safety concerns with children, I completely understand your bedside decision.

My post was in response to Warp disagreeing that an unchambered weapon is as useful as a hammer. The negligible time to rack the slide wasn't even a consideration with my post.
I understand. Sometimes in these conversations the distinction between a rock/hammer and a gun gets lost on some (but not all).

I think we are in agreement that while an unloaded gun and a rock/hammer are nearly equal in defensive capabilities at instant face value, a gun that can be racked and loaded is quickly differentiated from a rock/hammer!

Unlocking the safe is my biggest delay (not optional due to children). Racking the slide happens as the gun comes out and isn't a factor with regard to time or readiness.

As for the big dog... I prefer one with good people skills
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Old 07-18-2013, 15:09   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
But you cannot deny that the pistol is nothing more than an ergonomic brick until the slide is racked and a gun powder propelled projectile resides in the chamber. I highly doubt pulling the trigger on an empty chamber would do much to stop a threat. I could be incorrect though as I have fortunately never been in a self defense situation with my pistol and hope I never am.
But you cannot deny that in the VAST majority if home defense situations where one retrieves a nightstand gun, one would have plenty of time to rack the slide.

You also cannot deny that one person declaring to everybody else that if THEY don't have a round in the chamber, it's no better than a brick, is foolish...to put it mildly.
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Old 07-18-2013, 15:54   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boilergonzo View Post

Unlocking the safe is my biggest delay (not optional due to children).
Racking the slide happens as the gun comes out and isn't a factor with regard to time or readiness.
Not to drag this out more but.............. why the empty chamber
if the gun is in a safe?
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Last edited by clarkz71; 07-18-2013 at 15:55..
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Old 07-18-2013, 16:40   #473
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G30s, FNX45 tac and FN SLP all within reach and condition 1
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Old 07-18-2013, 16:58   #474
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Loaded, one in the chamber, in a holster, in my bed.

Theres an AK by the bed.

Last edited by jp3975; 07-18-2013 at 16:59..
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:23   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
Not to drag this out more but.............. why the empty chamber
if the gun is in a safe?
Because I absolutely KNOW (based upon my house and conditions) that I have time to rack the slide. Period. Given that element is accounted for, my consideration can fall to the next levels.

I have friends who are firemen. They would be the very people coming to my house in the event of a fire. An un-chambered round just goes "pop". A chambered round shoots in whatever direction the gun is pointed, with only the thin steel of a nightstand safe to slow the bullet.

If I didn't have time to rack the slide, the issue of firemen never enters the equation. But since I DO have time, and I do travel, and am out a lot (gun in safe with no one home, but fires can still ignite!), and since the possibility of a fire is just as likely as a break-in, I choose to negate that issue, too. It comes at no penalty to me, and is additional peace of mind.

If someone were to question the likelihood of a fire, and a round actually hitting a fireman, I would agree the odds are staggeringly small... just like the odds of a break-in... Some have stated they shower with a gun. To me, that seems equally bizarre in the opposite paranoid direction. If they come for me when I am in the shower, I admit that I am done for!




I guess it boils down to this... since I don't NEED the time, would I rather eliminate the (very, very, very remote) chance of having to face my friend (and my kids' playmates) and explain that their husband/father the fireman was injured because of my gun.

If you haven't viewed the video of the link I posted with kids opening many common small safes, you might want to. A police officer lost his child when it successfully "bumped" a safe open (provided by his department, no less!). Seeing that, I tried "bumping" two of my lower cost safes... it is stunningly easy to do! Scary easy! One second, no effort, and it is wide open! Now the difference between "BANG" and nothing is does the child know how to, or have they physical strength to rack the slide? If not, still no "BANG". My safe has not been proven to have a flaw, but I didn't know about the other flaw either, until I read it!

My nightstand safe is safe... but that isn't a 100% guarantee either. The more steps needed to lead to an accident minimizes the odds of all steps sequentially occurring.

Some are comfortable with guns out. I know a child that died due to an unsecured weapon. It impacts how you think. I am confident it will never happen in my house, however paranoid that may seem to others. I also choose to leave the house unarmed a lot. My paranoia is less about others harming me than in my negligence potentially harming others.

That's all. But I understand why many others want to have a round in the chamber. Hey, if I lived on the first floor, and didn't have time, I would probably have a chambered round too! It is a prioritization of risks. No more, no less.

Last edited by boilergonzo; 07-19-2013 at 11:30..
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Old 07-19-2013, 17:16   #476
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I keep a Weatherby PA459 pump 12ga loaded beside my night stand and a Glock 23 with 1 in the tube in a bed side safe.
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Old 07-19-2013, 17:50   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagoya10 View Post
Try loading a pistol in the middle of the night after being awaken out of a sound sleep with the fear and adrenaline pumping. Might as well be a monkey trying to "have coitus" with a football. The pistol will be useless.
Try opening a safe under the same conditions.
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Old 07-19-2013, 17:52   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagoya10 View Post
Try loading a pistol in the middle of the night after being awaken out of a sound sleep with the fear and adrenaline pumping. Might as well be a monkey trying to "have coitus" with a football. The pistol will be useless.
My opinion:

If you aren't mentally sound enough to rack the slide, you aren't mentally sound enough to be handling a loaded firearm anyway.
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Old 07-19-2013, 18:03   #479
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I sleep with my G22 in the nightstand every night. That being said:

I don't have any children, but I can understand the concern about leaving a loaded handgun lying around for those who do. It seems to me however, that you have to problems. 1. what good is an unloaded handgun going to do for in the event you should have to do it. And 2. I generally feel that leaving an unloaded gun unattended is just bad practice. There are too many unknowns.
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Old 07-19-2013, 21:03   #480
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MXR300EX, Man!, when I saw the word weatherby in your post my mind immediately went to (WEATHERBY 460MAG) I thought NO!! NOT IN THE BEDROOM!! and then I saw the word shotgun and my heart went whoo!! that was a close one. Nobody but nobody, I hope would keep a weatherby .460mag next to the bed with a round in the chamber. But then again we must stay vigilant concerning these ZOMBIES!!! jUST KIDDING but my mind did jump when I saw the word WEATHERBY in the context of a bedside gun. Sure hope you live way, way, way, out in the country
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