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Old 07-14-2013, 20:38   #451
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
My home defense weapon is loaded with a chambered round and in a holster. The extra motion I have to make to remove the pistol from the holster to get to the trigger gives me a second or two to shake the cobwebs of being startled awake. Anything more than that and you may as well just have a set of brass knuckles on the nightstand.
False.

But you are of course free to do it as you see fit, regardless.
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Old 07-14-2013, 21:02   #452
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Bedside Glock

I keep the frame locked in a safe next to the bed. The barrel is locked in a safe in another room, the slide is in the garage under some rags, the recoil spring is in the backyard somewhere. I threw a handful of random ammo in the front yard. I disassembled a couple of magazines, but I am not sure where they are.

This will give me enough time to wake up, identify the threat, give them a stern warning and be killed.

These threads never cease to amaze me. Loaded, unloaded, thumb safety, bicycle lock, set in concrete to keep it safe.
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Old 07-14-2013, 21:40   #453
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
My home defense weapon is loaded with a chambered round and in a holster. The extra motion I have to make to remove the pistol from the holster to get to the trigger gives me a second or two to shake the cobwebs of being startled awake. Anything more than that and you may as well just have a set of brass knuckles on the nightstand.
But isn't this yet another example of someone projecting their needs and situation on others who may have very different concerns (like me?). In your scenario, I am probably one thousand times more likely to wake up with a small child pointing a gun at me (or himself) as a bad guy. Only a holster with children is not smart. I am not saying that doesn't work for your situation. But it is unthinkable for ME!!!

My home is secure (read prior posts regarding alarms, motion sensors, and house layout).

For me, I choose to err with thought given to the relative odds of a given event and the downstream consequences. I would have time to arm myself with my phone, flashlight, gun, dial 911 AND put your aforementioned brass knuckles on both feet... I could probably add some throwing stars, a dart gun, and a small baton on a belt if needed and if I owned any...

We are just talking about not racking a slide or racking a slide here, right?!? If you can't do that in under a second... yikes!

I will have many, many seconds. Again... not a concern for my situation, so I have the luxury of increased safety. If you live on the first floor, or where a bad guy can get to you way faster, perhaps it is a very real issue for you.

But the brass knuckles comment is way off base for my particular situation.
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Old 07-14-2013, 22:11   #454
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But isn't this yet another example of someone projecting their needs and situation on others who may have very different concerns (like me?). In your scenario, I am probably one thousand times more likely to wake up with a small child pointing a gun at me (or himself) as a bad guy. Only a holster with children is not smart. I am not saying that doesn't work for your situation. But it is unthinkable for ME!!!

My home is secure (read prior posts regarding alarms, motion sensors, and house layout).

For me, I choose to err with thought given to the relative odds of a given event and the downstream consequences. I would have time to arm myself with my phone, flashlight, gun, dial 911 AND put your aforementioned brass knuckles on both feet... I could probably add some throwing stars, a dart gun, and a small baton on a belt if needed and if I owned any...

We are just talking about not racking a slide or racking a slide here, right?!? If you can't do that in under a second... yikes!

I will have many, many seconds. Again... not a concern for my situation, so I have the luxury of increased safety. If you live on the first floor, or where a bad guy can get to you way faster, perhaps it is a very real issue for you.

But the brass knuckles comment is way off base for my particular situation.
I am projecting my needs on noone. I answered the question in the title of the thread and gave my opinion of an unloaded weapon or a weapon in a safe.

An unloaded weapon is as useful as a hammer. That cannot be disputed. If you cannot access/load it in time, things could badly quickly. That being said, your requirements for the safety of your family are different than mine in regards to safe storage of a pistol, nothing more nothing less. I can safely have a loaded weapon beside me while I sleep as I have no children that could reach it without waking me. You however are in a far different situation with far different safety requirements.

Now that I have explained that and we can all be on the same page happily, let's all just sit back, relax, and have a coke and a smile. Maybe even sing some karaoke if we really want to get wild.
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Old 07-14-2013, 22:16   #455
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Originally Posted by gun1three View Post
I keep the frame locked in a safe next to the bed. The barrel is locked in a safe in another room, the slide is in the garage under some rags, the recoil spring is in the backyard somewhere. I threw a handful of random ammo in the front yard. I disassembled a couple of magazines, but I am not sure where they are.

This will give me enough time to wake up, identify the threat, give them a stern warning and be killed.

These threads never cease to amaze me. Loaded, unloaded, thumb safety, bicycle lock, set in concrete to keep it safe.


Stop posting this kind of stuff. You are going to give politicians in California and New York new safety requirements to ponder over for law abiding gun owners.

Last edited by Roger1079; 07-14-2013 at 22:16..
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:02   #456
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I am projecting my needs on noone. I answered the question in the title of the thread and gave my opinion of an unloaded weapon or a weapon in a safe.

An unloaded weapon is as useful as a hammer. That cannot be disputed. If you cannot access/load it in time, things could badly quickly. That being said, your requirements for the safety of your family are different than mine in regards to safe storage of a pistol, nothing more nothing less. I can safely have a loaded weapon beside me while I sleep as I have no children that could reach it without waking me. You however are in a far different situation with far different safety requirements.

Now that I have explained that and we can all be on the same page happily, let's all just sit back, relax, and have a coke and a smile. Maybe even sing some karaoke if we really want to get wild.
Fair assessment. Coke, smile, Beer Summit, or whatever! La la la la la la... la la la la la la (to the Coca-Cola ad)
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Old 07-15-2013, 13:52   #457
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Fair assessment. Coke, smile, Beer Summit, or whatever! La la la la la la... la la la la la la (to the Coca-Cola ad)
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Old 07-15-2013, 15:21   #458
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Glock 19 in the bedside drawer, drawer cocked open, 15 in the magazine and one in the pipe.

OOpps, forgot to add, AK47 under the bed with 30 in the magazine!!! Just in case
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Old 07-15-2013, 15:32   #459
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g19 loaded next to bed other wise its a brick
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:21   #460
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g19 loaded next to bed other wise its a brick
No it's not! Warp said so above! It is just as good as a loaded gun in every way!
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Old 07-16-2013, 15:01   #461
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No it's not! Warp said so above!
You are absolutely correct.

A firearm kept for home defense does not have to be condition 1 (loaded mag, round chambered) in order to be better than a brick/brass knuckles/rock
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Old 07-16-2013, 15:39   #462
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My gosh...... this thread is still going...
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Old 07-16-2013, 18:54   #463
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My gosh...... this thread is still going...
These miserable threads never die. They just go on and on and on and on and on. They morph into another stupid thread about some other ridiculous type of safety device or carry it empty, or store the magazine separately. For god's sake I don't know why people even buy Glocks then try to church them up with safety blocks, thumb safeties, carry on an empty chamber. Yada, yada, yada. It kills me.

Do these same people drive their cars with two or three seatbelts, while wearing a helmet, wrapped in bubble wrap. You are far more likely to get killed in a car than by a gun.

Keep the gun in a quick action safe if you must, keep your friggin finger off the trigger. SIMPLE.
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Old 07-16-2013, 19:39   #464
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Loaded. Same as CCW mentality. I dont have any kids yet. That might change. But for now it is just me and my wife. I dont know what I will encounter. I could be fending someone off with one arm. If my Glock was not loaded, it makes it that much harder trying to chamber a round with only one hand and fighting someone off you.
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Old 07-16-2013, 22:58   #465
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Your bedside glock loaded or unloaded

S&W 37 airwght on my bible at body level center of headboard. Yes it's loaded with +pJHP. A light and cell at arms length top of headboard my side. My side of bead to the door meaning you must go through me to get to my wife. 12ga loaded with 6 1oz slugs next to bed my side
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:58   #466
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You are absolutely correct.

A firearm kept for home defense does not have to be condition 1 (loaded mag, round chambered) in order to be better than a brick/brass knuckles/rock
But you cannot deny that the pistol is nothing more than an ergonomic brick until the slide is racked and a gun powder propelled projectile resides in the chamber. I highly doubt pulling the trigger on an empty chamber would do much to stop a threat. I could be incorrect though as I have fortunately never been in a self defense situation with my pistol and hope I never am.

Last edited by Roger1079; 07-18-2013 at 05:01..
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:39   #467
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But you cannot deny that the pistol is nothing more than an ergonomic brick until the slide is racked and a gun powder propelled projectile resides in the chamber. I highly doubt pulling the trigger on an empty chamber would do much to stop a threat. I could be incorrect though as I have fortunately never been in a self defense situation with my pistol and hope I never am.
Unloaded, a gun is admittedly a chunk of metal/plastic, and a weapon of about the same value as a rock.

It is the silly assumption that one can't quickly rack a slide that is in question...

Based upon my house and my room location, time to rack a slide is far less critical than other criteria (again... for me, your house may not be as large, oddly-shaped, or as well prepared for intruders).
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:41   #468
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Unloaded, a gun is admittedly a chunk of metal/plastic, and a weapon of about the same value as a rock.

It is the silly assumption that one can't quickly rack a slide that is in question...

Based upon my house and my room location, time to rack a slide is far less critical than other criteria (again... for me, your house may not be as large, oddly-shaped, or as well prepared for intruders).
I have an alarm, deadbolts, and door locks. The only thing missing is a big dog with not so great people skills.

I can agree with you that if someone enters your home uninvited and making noise, that racking the slide takes only a second and can almost certainly be done long before the threat reaches you. With your other safety concerns with children, I completely understand your bedside decision.

My post was in response to Warp disagreeing that an unchambered weapon is as useful as a hammer. The negligible time to rack the slide wasn't even a consideration with my post.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:08   #469
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I have a loaded G17 and a Mossberg M500 12ga SG on my bed.
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Old 07-18-2013, 14:47   #470
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
I have an alarm, deadbolts, and door locks. The only thing missing is a big dog with not so great people skills.

I can agree with you that if someone enters your home uninvited and making noise, that racking the slide takes only a second and can almost certainly be done long before the threat reaches you. With your other safety concerns with children, I completely understand your bedside decision.

My post was in response to Warp disagreeing that an unchambered weapon is as useful as a hammer. The negligible time to rack the slide wasn't even a consideration with my post.
I understand. Sometimes in these conversations the distinction between a rock/hammer and a gun gets lost on some (but not all).

I think we are in agreement that while an unloaded gun and a rock/hammer are nearly equal in defensive capabilities at instant face value, a gun that can be racked and loaded is quickly differentiated from a rock/hammer!

Unlocking the safe is my biggest delay (not optional due to children). Racking the slide happens as the gun comes out and isn't a factor with regard to time or readiness.

As for the big dog... I prefer one with good people skills
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Old 07-18-2013, 15:09   #471
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But you cannot deny that the pistol is nothing more than an ergonomic brick until the slide is racked and a gun powder propelled projectile resides in the chamber. I highly doubt pulling the trigger on an empty chamber would do much to stop a threat. I could be incorrect though as I have fortunately never been in a self defense situation with my pistol and hope I never am.
But you cannot deny that in the VAST majority if home defense situations where one retrieves a nightstand gun, one would have plenty of time to rack the slide.

You also cannot deny that one person declaring to everybody else that if THEY don't have a round in the chamber, it's no better than a brick, is foolish...to put it mildly.
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Old 07-18-2013, 15:54   #472
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Unlocking the safe is my biggest delay (not optional due to children).
Racking the slide happens as the gun comes out and isn't a factor with regard to time or readiness.
Not to drag this out more but.............. why the empty chamber
if the gun is in a safe?
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Old 07-18-2013, 16:40   #473
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G30s, FNX45 tac and FN SLP all within reach and condition 1
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Old 07-18-2013, 16:58   #474
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Loaded, one in the chamber, in a holster, in my bed.

Theres an AK by the bed.

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Old 07-19-2013, 11:23   #475
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Not to drag this out more but.............. why the empty chamber
if the gun is in a safe?
Because I absolutely KNOW (based upon my house and conditions) that I have time to rack the slide. Period. Given that element is accounted for, my consideration can fall to the next levels.

I have friends who are firemen. They would be the very people coming to my house in the event of a fire. An un-chambered round just goes "pop". A chambered round shoots in whatever direction the gun is pointed, with only the thin steel of a nightstand safe to slow the bullet.

If I didn't have time to rack the slide, the issue of firemen never enters the equation. But since I DO have time, and I do travel, and am out a lot (gun in safe with no one home, but fires can still ignite!), and since the possibility of a fire is just as likely as a break-in, I choose to negate that issue, too. It comes at no penalty to me, and is additional peace of mind.

If someone were to question the likelihood of a fire, and a round actually hitting a fireman, I would agree the odds are staggeringly small... just like the odds of a break-in... Some have stated they shower with a gun. To me, that seems equally bizarre in the opposite paranoid direction. If they come for me when I am in the shower, I admit that I am done for!




I guess it boils down to this... since I don't NEED the time, would I rather eliminate the (very, very, very remote) chance of having to face my friend (and my kids' playmates) and explain that their husband/father the fireman was injured because of my gun.

If you haven't viewed the video of the link I posted with kids opening many common small safes, you might want to. A police officer lost his child when it successfully "bumped" a safe open (provided by his department, no less!). Seeing that, I tried "bumping" two of my lower cost safes... it is stunningly easy to do! Scary easy! One second, no effort, and it is wide open! Now the difference between "BANG" and nothing is does the child know how to, or have they physical strength to rack the slide? If not, still no "BANG". My safe has not been proven to have a flaw, but I didn't know about the other flaw either, until I read it!

My nightstand safe is safe... but that isn't a 100% guarantee either. The more steps needed to lead to an accident minimizes the odds of all steps sequentially occurring.

Some are comfortable with guns out. I know a child that died due to an unsecured weapon. It impacts how you think. I am confident it will never happen in my house, however paranoid that may seem to others. I also choose to leave the house unarmed a lot. My paranoia is less about others harming me than in my negligence potentially harming others.

That's all. But I understand why many others want to have a round in the chamber. Hey, if I lived on the first floor, and didn't have time, I would probably have a chambered round too! It is a prioritization of risks. No more, no less.

Last edited by boilergonzo; 07-19-2013 at 11:30..
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