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Old 05-13-2013, 13:54   #61
M&P15T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
........And if I do, I'll make sure that I won't be blazing away with suppressive fire and whatever else the kewl kids do nowadays.
What you think you will do, and what you will actually do, should you ever get faced with a deadly threat, are usually two different things.

Ain't nothin' like adrenaline, fear, and the desire to not get killed or injured, to **** up your performance.
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Old 05-13-2013, 14:31   #62
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I've heard 1911's referenced as a 60's muscle car ( fast ,pretty, cool etc..but requires a certain dedication and more work to maintain to keep it running, the generation today just doesn't understand that, we live in a no deposit/no return society
I own a Glock 26,17 and 30 BUT I carry most times a custom Colt series 70, I shoot it very well, the mag capacity isn't an issue for me.
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Old 05-13-2013, 14:37   #63
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phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range
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Originally Posted by Zombie Steve View Post
That's from a movie that came from the last century as well, time travelling assassins notwithstanding.

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Old 05-13-2013, 14:42   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
What you think you will do, and what you will actually do, should you ever get faced with a deadly threat, are usually two different things.

Ain't nothin' like adrenaline, fear, and the desire to not get killed or injured, to **** up your performance.
How do you know? Have you been in a firefight?
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Old 05-13-2013, 15:22   #65
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Originally Posted by 257 roberts View Post
I've heard 1911's referenced as a 60's muscle car ( fast ,pretty, cool etc..but requires a certain dedication and more work to maintain to keep it running, the generation today just doesn't understand that, we live in a no deposit/no return society
I own a Glock 26,17 and 30 BUT I carry most times a custom Colt series 70, I shoot it very well, the mag capacity isn't an issue for me.
I like the muscle car analogy better than the Harley analogy I heard the other day.

I like Harleys, but if they made a plane, I wouldn't fly in it.
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Old 05-13-2013, 16:07   #66
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Carrying a firearm for self-defense has very little to do with standing tall on the firing line and shooting for accuracy at 25 yards.....for the average CCWer.


And here you go with "averages". The truth is the "average" CCWer" will never fire their weapon in anger..EVER. Those that do will find it happens under a wide variety of circumstances and those are all totaled up and AVERAGED to get the numbers you rely on. A lot of shootings occur at almost contact distance so how many shootings at "other" distances does it take to come up with and average of 21' (or whatever the current "holy number" is?



Power? 9MM has (give or take) the same effective power as .40, 45ACP, .357, or any standard service cartridge. Folks that think that there is any major real-world effectiveness differences between the standard service cartridges are miss-informed. They all perform about the same in the real world when it comes to stopping threats.


There is no "magic caliber" and that is correct, but a lot of "newer" rounds have to rely on velocity to approach the stopping power of the .45 acp. Velocity translates in to pressure, which translates into recoil. Take a look at the reports on the relatively new Springfield XDS. People are rather pleasantly surprised by how mild it is in such a small platform. If you can get the job done with 24,000 psi why bother with 35,000 psi?


And while a G19 (or one of the many similar pistols out there) might not fit your needs, it is a weapon that fits the majority of CCWers needs. Your trying to reply to my post as if it was directed specifically at you is silly. I was looking broad-scope at CCWers as a whole, on average, not focusing on any singular person's needs. You're taking my post subjectively, as if it were addressed towards you and your needs......but it wasn't, it's just an objective observation.

I never took your post as directed at me. It was simply bad reasoning all the way around. And no, you have not been blessed with omniscience, and I have very little to ever suggest that you are objective at all. Very few humans are and in a field as with as many different possibilities as this, for one person to narrow it down to one type, makes claims of objectivity suspect.


The fact that you think something like G19 isn't a logical choice for the average CCWer, just means that it doesn't fit your needs, not that that statement is un-true. And my assessment of something like a G19 being a good choice is not subjective at all. It's a purely objective observation, based on years of considering what most people need, and most people carry. Here on GT we had a poll thread for a few years, and the G19 was by far the most purchased/carried (favorite) GLOCK pistol.....by far. And since GLOCK has a very real dominance on the current pistol market, it stands to reason that G19s (as a singular, specific model) probably represent the most purchased CCW piece on the market today. Toss in 9MM pistols that are similar in size, weight and capacity to the G19, and that particular category is dominant in sales and usage.

If we want to talk about popularity making the choice ask, for instance, a Linux user about Windows, or an Apple use about Microsoft.


I am glad you mentioned magazine capacity because that is a great grin especially when folks toss out the "average" in terms of distance and accuracy (as you did in your first paragraph) what difference does capacity make, if averages are such holy writ? The "average" civilian gunfight is over before the good guy fires five rounds. To tout "average" as a rational for expecting less in terms of accuracy and skill, and then to ignore "average" in favor of capacity, is prorating the value of averages to support a conclusion, not very "objective".

That is what I like to call objective information.

As far as the rest of your reply.......I'm glad we can agree. People normally carry what they "like". Whether they like it because they shoot it well, saw their favorite actor use it in a movie, see LEOs carrying them, their friend has one, they're jumping on the latest band-wagon, or it just looks "cool" to them, is immaterial.......they like them, and that's what matters most. 1911s aren't the best choice out there for the average CCWer, but people do like them.

So, to answer the OPs question objectively; why do people carry 1911s? Most people carry them because they like them.

ETA: One must also consider the "Thread Title Effect", which is very real. The TTE comes into play when your thread title has a specific firearm (ie; "1911") in it. If you have any particular firearm specifically mentioned in your thread title, you will absolutely get that particular firearm's lovers running to post in your thread about how great they are.

Case in point: There have been MANY revolver vrs. auto threads here. And every time, revolver lovers (a particularly passionate group) come running to them, to post about how awesome they are, and how everyone should carry one. The revolver fans (especially the snubby lovers) will argue so hard, for so long, and dominate the thread so badly, that one would get the impression that most people carry revolvers.

But all one has to do, is the go to the stickied thread poll at the top of this sub-forum to see that almost 90% of people here choose to carry an automatic pistol.

So, beware of the Thread Title Effect.

I am not saying that there is no rational for your observation, in fact it is well thought out and an opinion worth consideration, as are many others.

I am tired of people putting forth an OPINION and trying to validate it, or add more gravitas to it, by making the false claim that it is "objective". This occurs like a plague today.

"well my opinion is objective, so it has more weight"

BS. It isn't a double blind study, obviously (in this case with averages) standards of proof and values are weighted differently depending on the desired conclusion, and then the issue of popularity in a poll conducted on a website who's very title is "GLOCKtalk" (no bias there) is used to shore up an opinion that claims to be objective?


Call it an personal opinion, call it an opinion of the opinions you've read, call it a summary of what you have seen, heck, stick a feather in it and call it "macaroni" ,

but don't call it "objective".
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Old 05-13-2013, 16:16   #67
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I carry my 1911 a lot especially in the winter, the reason is simple. Its deadly accurate, I don't need 17 round , 8 plus 1 is plenty with a couple of extra mags. The trigger is amazing and it just feels great when I shoot it
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Old 05-13-2013, 16:32   #68
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I am really enjoying this thread. The only 1911 I have is my father's WWII era which is OK, but I have never gotten an "OH....wow" feel from it. But I guess I should try one from the current century before I give up on the platform entirely.

If I may, I would like to toss out a related question.

Does anyone here carry a 1911 in a cartridge OTHER than a .45? Meaning...is the attraction with the 1911 coming from the pattern of the 1911 itself, regardless of caliber or is it the best pattern for using a .45 cartridge?
Personally, it's more the pattern of the pistol than the .45 ACP chambering.
I sometimes carry a 1911 in 10MM or in 9x23/38 Super.



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Old 05-13-2013, 17:07   #69
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Call it an personal opinion, call it an opinion of the opinions you've read, call it a summary of what you have seen, heck, stick a feather in it and call it "macaroni" ,

but don't call it "objective".
I agree.

It may be a learned or well reasoned opinion, but it's still an opinion unless one is such an expert that one knows everything there is to know about firearms and shootings. Then it will become a "truth". Still not factual or objective.
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:59   #70
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seanmac45 stated the argument in favor of the 1911 fairly succinctly. I have a couple of Glocks (a 23 and a 34). Both are great pistols: reliable, accurate, easy to use and clean, will digest any ammo without a hiccup. Aren't much to look at but they get the job done. I learned how to shoot in the Marines way back when so I started out on 1911s. They are still a favorite (so my 1911s out-number my Glocks by a substantial amount). The single stack 1911 just fits my hand better. My opinion is the 1911 is also a more durable weapon. I prefer .45ACP but the 9mm Commander or the .38 Super in the Government model are nice too. With the huge variety of offerings in these calibers today, the .45ACP's previous dominance in the stopping power area no longer has to be the driving factor in pistol caliber selection. I use and like both Glocks and 1911s and switch between them as the desire occurs. However, the 1911 would be my choice as a "war" gun. Regardless, please note, in my humble opinion, pistols are defensive weapons, really only good for fighting your way to your rifle!
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Old 06-02-2013, 13:13   #71
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A couple of us are old enough to remember when there really were not alot of choices in capable handguns. Now there are more choices. There are some handguns though that just seem to be a bit easier to get the first shot off accurately and quickly than others.
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Old 06-02-2013, 14:12   #72
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Just tossing this out.. I too have wondered why the interest in the 1911 when so many specs argue against it.

This thread has been informative and very civil. No intelligences have been insulted, but a lot of very strong opinions have been stated.

I have appreciated this thread.
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Old 06-02-2013, 23:40   #73
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Just tossing this out.. I too have wondered why the interest in the 1911 when so many specs argue against it.
Apparently the Marines Special Operations Capable unit doesn't think so. Of course those people probably don't know that a "modern" gun is what they'd need to do the job.
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Old 06-02-2013, 23:50   #74
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I don't get curious as to why others carry certain gun models. Like someone said above, it personal preference, and whatever you're most comfortable with.
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Old 06-03-2013, 00:00   #75
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My first pistol was a G19. I love it. It does exactly what it was designed to do--be cheap, light, and go bang every time. However, I bought a 1911 for carry because I am tall and skinny, and the slimmer 1911 conceals better on me. I absolutely love my Glock, but my 1911 works better for a near-full size carry weapon for me. If thickness wasn't an issue, then I would return to the near-infallible reliability of my Glock, but since I am still relatively slim, I will go to the 1911 every time.
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Old 06-03-2013, 00:26   #76
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How do you know? Have you been in a firefight?
Does watching a firefight in a 3-D movie count?
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Old 06-03-2013, 00:38   #77
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Concealabilty, natural pointing, best trigger on the market, the ability to modify it to your needs, true safety, 100 years of experience, and wonderful quality ( on most models). There is a reason the vast majority of championship shooters choose 1911's.
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Old 06-03-2013, 00:54   #78
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The reason I now carry a Glock instead of a 1911 is $$. I used to carry a Colt Lightweight Commander. Slim, concealed well, beautiful trigger, seemed to point itself at whatever I wanted to shoot and hit it. Being only 28 oz it wasn't that much heavier than a comparable Glock. But, when I realized that I could sell the Commander, buy a new Glock .45, and still have several hundred dollars left to help us out right now - the Commander had to go. :( I'm trying really hard to develop a love for my G30, but there is a very definite difference in how it feels IWB, and I don't shoot it near as accurately as my old Commander - but its still a .45 so that's somewhat comforting. When finances improve in the future, I will more than likely find me a nice stainless Commander sized 1911 and go back to carrying that.

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Old 06-03-2013, 02:07   #79
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I hope so. I'd hate to see anyone put their life on the line for a hundred bucks.
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:33   #80
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This is not a troll thread at all. I'm asking a simple question that I want others opinions on. Sorry I'm not a member of a 1911 forum too. The sentence about stubbornness that you singled out was meant to be a little joke at the end of the post. If you don't want to participate in this thread then don't. I'm sorry you took offense to this.
What 21st Century design do you propose? Glock was made in the same Century as the 1911.
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