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Old 05-17-2013, 19:05   #1
brokenprism
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BB 200 gr. 'Wilderness' Rd Too Much for SD?

Is this too much of a good thing? We always talk about penetration being desirable, but if a 180 JHP penetrates well, a 200 gr hard cast LFP at 1000 fps may act like a drill. It would deliver quite the energy punch though, wouldn't it?

A 200 gr .400 bullet at 1000 fps must approach the old lead 210 gr .41 mag duty rd in effectiveness at some point, yes? All we're missing is .145 thousandths on either side of the bullet, but I don't remember the velocity they loaded to.

BB claims it's not a lead-in-Glock bullet issue because it's hard cast. 'Slips' through the barrel at lower pressure than jacketed. That sounds good.

Last edited by brokenprism; 05-17-2013 at 19:05..
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Old 05-17-2013, 20:01   #2
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I would think that would be better for wilderness carry and not around populated areas. If you could get BGs to line up, you could take out several at once.
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Old 05-17-2013, 20:53   #3
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The bullets that made the .41s reputation were not the original LRN that was rather anemic. When it began to shine was with the JHPs and the LSWCHP, A 10mm loaded to the same velocity with one of those would perform pretty much the same.
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Old 05-17-2013, 21:28   #4
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Sure, if it won't tumble as soon as leaves the muzzle, or kill the person behind the bad guy after it has passed through his body with ease.

Massive penetration is needed for large, determined animals, not humans.
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Old 05-17-2013, 23:12   #5
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Great load for the woods but stick with a good JHP for SD. As far as a woods load BB really does come up with some interesting loads.
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:23   #6
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Their outdoorsman round is best suited for use on animals since it's going to penetrate deep (it's hardcast lead), not needed for humans unless you plan on shooting through 3 or 4 of them.
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Old 05-18-2013, 16:21   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDGlock23 View Post
Their outdoorsman round is best suited for use on animals since it's going to penetrate deep (it's hardcast lead), not needed for humans unless you plan on shooting through 3 or 4 of them.
If my math is correct (and it is) the BB 200 gr HCSWC @ 1000 fps oughtta be good for about 36.6" (according to the MacPherson model) or 33.4" (according to the Schwartz model) of penetration.

Probably not a real wise idea for SD in a crowded shopping mall.

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Old 05-18-2013, 22:25   #8
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I don;t know know about all this "sientific stuf." But I can tell you from field experience, that the Hard cast bullet,"IS NOT," For human SD in a urban setting..... way to much penetration. !!!

I have been using them on game for 50 years, and 25 years of guiding folks, and the 50 years of my own experience.

HC bullets, are for game from deer to elephants ! (depending on caliber of course).

I have used them in the G20 on the ranch, as a BG, to my 45-70, and 44mag Vaquero and 45LC, to shoot heavy HC, if need be through the cactus and mesquite if I have trouble with illegals wanting to kill livestock. So far, pointing a big bore in their face and using the right words, has done the trick.

Just saying, in this very thick ranch country, HC bullets can be a needed asset.

BUT, EDC in a populated area, is a NO NO, they are to much, and will pass through at least two people I assure you.

A good JHP bonded and heavy for caliber, is all you need "In town."

Do NOT use HC in town. they are to much !

A good Heavy for caliber XTP, GD, PDX1, is all you need it town !

Leave the HC to hunting, and the boy's like us in the middle of High Lonesome, to carry in 'case" we need it in a life threatning situation out here in the West Texas Thick brush, agaist banditos ! Yes the are very real, and very dangerous !


Good luck and good shooting !





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Old 05-18-2013, 22:55   #9
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Indeed. I agree, however 90% of my "right words" in Spanish start with "Su Madre" and the other is "Mannes Arriba"
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:05   #10
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Agree with the above, keep them for the woods. If you have to use them for self defense in the woods, say, to defend yourself against those protecting a marijuana grow, you won't have to worry about the over penetration. On the ride to and from the woods, you might want to load up with a good jacketed hollowpoint.

Or.... you can keep a different gun for the ride, which is what I do. My G27 rides shotgun with me when I am going to and from night hunting for predators. My G20 rides shotgun when I am in the woods at night. When I stop in the local stop and rob on my way home to pick up a snack, the G27 goes in with me. I don't want to open up on some robbers in the store with my G20 loaded with high penetration ammo. There are almost always customers in that store at night.
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Old 05-19-2013, 14:26   #11
SCmasterblaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenprism View Post
Is this too much of a good thing? We always talk about penetration being desirable, but if a 180 JHP penetrates well, a 200 gr hard cast LFP at 1000 fps may act like a drill. It would deliver quite the energy punch though, wouldn't it?

A 200 gr .400 bullet at 1000 fps must approach the old lead 210 gr .41 mag duty rd in effectiveness at some point, yes? All we're missing is .145 thousandths on either side of the bullet, but I don't remember the velocity they loaded to.

BB claims it's not a lead-in-Glock bullet issue because it's hard cast. 'Slips' through the barrel at lower pressure than jacketed. That sounds good.
What caliber are you talking here?
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Old 05-19-2013, 20:51   #12
noway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
I don;t know know about all this "sientific stuf." But I can tell you from field experience, that the Hard cast bullet,"IS NOT," For human SD in a urban setting..... way to much penetration. !!!

I have been using them on game for 50 years, and 25 years of guiding folks, and the 50 years of my own experience.

HC bullets, are for game from deer to elephants ! (depending on caliber of course).

I have used them in the G20 on the ranch, as a BG, to my 45-70, and 44mag Vaquero and 45LC, to shoot heavy HC, if need be through the cactus and mesquite if I have trouble with illegals wanting to kill livestock. So far, pointing a big bore in their face and using the right words, has done the trick.

Just saying, in this very thick ranch country, HC bullets can be a needed asset.

BUT, EDC in a populated area, is a NO NO, they are to much, and will pass through at least two people I assure you.

A good JHP bonded and heavy for caliber, is all you need "In town."

Do NOT use HC in town. they are to much !

A good Heavy for caliber XTP, GD, PDX1, is all you need it town !

Leave the HC to hunting, and the boy's like us in the middle of High Lonesome, to carry in 'case" we need it in a life threatning situation out here in the West Texas Thick brush, agaist banditos ! Yes the are very real, and very dangerous !


Good luck and good shooting !





CanyonMan
ditto on all of the above.

To give you real life examples, I loaded some hardcast bullets in my 45auto over a decade back. And by the lee's reloading book, these where 800fps out of a typical 5" bbl.

I stacked one single 30gallon plastic barrel, & thinking it was going to stop the bullet. Nope wrong

Next I got wised and stacked 2 barrels sides by side. Still, it did not stop bullet.

Next, I stacked 3 barrels side by side and still these bullets where NOT stopped.

At this point , I was all out of barrels, and dam that a considered amount of time and water to fill them.



Lesson learned, hardcast bullets favor penetration.
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Old 05-19-2013, 21:51   #13
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The good thing about hollow point bullets is they stop in the badguy. Flat points do the opposite.
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Old 05-19-2013, 22:45   #14
brokenprism
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What caliber are you talking here?

.40. I thought it was obvious, but these are also 10mm weights, aren't they?

I got my answer, thanks. CanyonMan says they're OK for in town, so I'm good!







jk. Federal HST 180 every day.
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Old 05-19-2013, 23:37   #15
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Do you know what a Texas Heart shot is? I had a guest (good pistol shot) borrow my six inch 10 mm with a 200gr hard cast bullet and a nuclear load. Such that you have to use the hardest primer you could find and a 5# heavier recoil spring. he hit a north bound pig in the south end. pig was really moving. cut the tail bone going in did not hit anymore bones till it exited out the chest. pig weighed 220#. the absolute worst field cleaning job I have had. that was at least 36" if not a bit more.

they can make as much fun of the 10 mm as they want too but when you load it up, it deliver. He is a life long NMC shooter and this was the first time he had hunted anything.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:31   #16
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.40. I thought it was obvious, but these are also 10mm weights, aren't they?

I got my answer, thanks. CanyonMan says they're OK for in town, so I'm good!







jk. Federal HST 180 every day.
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