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Old 05-11-2013, 11:39   #51
JBP55
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Originally Posted by lethal tupperwa View Post
why not just hold your head straight and move the sights in front of the dominate eye?
Some do a combination of both moving the head slightly in one direction and moving the pistol slightly in the other direction.

Right hand dominate and left eye dominate would move the pistol slightly left and the head slightly right.

Left hand dominate and right eye dominate would move the pistol slightly right and the head slightly left.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:01   #52
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Did I mess something here? I'm understanding that after market sights were installed by a dealer. Correct? They look centered? Looks have nothing to do with it. I'm not seeing where anyone has actually sighted the gun in after installing the sights. You don't just "center" the sights on the slide and expect to go. As someone else stated, you're shooting left so you MUST move the rear sight to the right. Noone can tell you how much, its all trial and error. Continue until you are on windage wise.
48 posts until we get a relevant answer...

This is one area where a laser bore sight is beneficial. Adjust the sights with the laser, then shoot it. Small variations of an inch or so at 25 yards is certainly within the margin of error. OTOH, with the laser installed, dry-fire a few times and SEE for yourself if the dot moves off target due to your technique. If it does, and it matters to you, then work on your technique.

8 striker fired pistols out of 10 I take to the range are within a few inches of being sighted in. 8 out of 10 novice right handed shooters tell me their gun shoots left. I have even had a few argue that I was just seeing the error on the target, correcting and adjusting just to make them look bad. So sure, it can be technique, but it can also be the gun was not sighted in, which it looks like it was not in this case.

There is also the real possibility that the left handed shooter at the Glock factory sighted in your Glock.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:02   #53
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There is also the real possibility that the left handed shooter at the Glock factory sighted in your Glock.
Now that's funny
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:14   #54
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I must be wrong since nobody else has pointed out that the op bought a gun, changed the sights, shot left and asked if gen4's shoot left. Key point, he changed the sights or had them changed. Why would someone question all gen4's after changing the sights? Like I said, I may have missed something.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:40   #55
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you did not miss anything

you are right on

congratulations

but this is the internet.
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Old 05-11-2013, 14:18   #56
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Originally Posted by gpo1956 View Post
Did I mess something here? I'm understanding that after market sights were installed by a dealer. Correct? They look centered? Looks have nothing to do with it. I'm not seeing where anyone has actually sighted the gun in after installing the sights. You don't just "center" the sights on the slide and expect to go. As someone else stated, you're shooting left so you MUST move the rear sight to the right. Noone can tell you how much, its all trial and error. Continue until you are on windage wise.
Its reasonable to say that if fixed sights are professionally installed, and they look very centered that the Glock should shoot pretty straight for most shooters. My G19 has factory sights and shoots straight, and my G26 has aftermarket sights and shoots straight. Both look to be very centered on the slide.

Of course adjusting the sights is the easy answer, but I created this topic to find out if it might be something else - like the Slide Lock not lining up the barrel correctly.

Last edited by ES13Raven; 05-11-2013 at 14:33..
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Old 05-11-2013, 18:12   #57
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I read another post where someone was having the same issue and sent the gun into Glock. He said they replaced the slide lock - could that cause this issue?
No No No
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Old 05-11-2013, 19:00   #58
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All my guns shoot left until I stopped wrapping my damn finger around the trigger and started using just the pad of my finger.
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Old 05-11-2013, 20:09   #59
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I have a theory! I'm no novice. I've shot 3-gun, IDPA and IPSC for the past decades. I'm also a firearms instructor for my department. I shoot all my pistols spot on except ALL my Glocks. All other guns have flat trigger faces. One knows exactly where there finger lies on the trigger and if they are pulling it straight back. The Glock has a curved trigger face which may not be pressed perfectly to the rear. The finger could wander a little off one of the sides. I happened upon this theory when shooting my PPQ and notice it was hitting perfectly at 50 yrds. My finger on that wide flat faced trigger felt better than the curved Glock trigger face. I will try my theory when I have the funds to purchase the Glockworx aluminum trigger which is flat.
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Old 05-11-2013, 20:17   #60
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I have a theory! I'm no novice. I've shot 3-gun, IDPA and IPSC for the past decades. I'm also a firearms instructor for my department. I shoot all my pistols spot on except ALL my Glocks. All other guns have flat trigger faces. One knows exactly where there finger lies on the trigger and if they are pulling it straight back. The Glock has a curved trigger face which may not be pressed perfectly to the rear. The finger could wander a little off one of the sides. I happened upon this theory when shooting my PPQ and notice it was hitting perfectly at 50 yrds. My finger on that wide flat faced trigger felt better than the curved Glock trigger face. I will try my theory when I have the funds to purchase the Glockworx aluminum trigger which is flat.

There are shooters like you on other gun forums that have some Glocks that shoot left. Not all of their Glocks but a few and these are well qualified shooters. I posted some of their quotes in this thread.
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Old 05-11-2013, 22:12   #61
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just because the sight is centered, it does not mean its sighted in for YOU. The first thing i do when i get a new gun is sight it in to my style of shooting. That is what is important.

just bump the sight over a little and move on.

Last edited by Wash-ar15; 05-11-2013 at 22:12..
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Old 05-11-2013, 23:43   #62
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Originally Posted by JBP55 View Post
There are shooters like you on other gun forums that have some Glocks that shoot left. Not all of their Glocks but a few and these are well qualified shooters. I posted some of their quotes in this thread.

But it is still technique! IF the trigger is pressed straight back, do POA and POI match? In most cases, yes meaning the gun does not shoot left.

If the force vector from your finger is pointed to your left when the trigger "breaks" you WILL MOVE the gun, including the barrel and sights due to a technique error and the group will be left. No-one always has a perfect trigger pull, but sloppier techniques, especially with bony fingers, will result in moving any handheld firearm, especially a Glock when the trigger breaks.

When you reduce the travel, weight, etc. of a trigger, you are NOT making the gun more accurate, you are reducing the impact of your poor technique. Perfect technique, with a 40 pound trigger or a 4 ounce trigger will produce the same POI and group size.

If you don't disrupt the sights (gun does not move due to your interaction with it) as the trigger breaks, you will hit your POA. That is all shooting really is.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:02   #63
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But it is still technique! IF the trigger is pressed straight back, do POA and POI match? In most cases, yes meaning the gun does not shoot left.

If the force vector from your finger is pointed to your left when the trigger "breaks" you WILL MOVE the gun, including the barrel and sights due to a technique error and the group will be left. No-one always has a perfect trigger pull, but sloppier techniques, especially with bony fingers, will result in moving any handheld firearm, especially a Glock when the trigger breaks.

When you reduce the travel, weight, etc. of a trigger, you are NOT making the gun more accurate, you are reducing the impact of your poor technique. Perfect technique, with a 40 pound trigger or a 4 ounce trigger will produce the same POI and group size.

If you don't disrupt the sights (gun does not move due to your interaction with it) as the trigger breaks, you will hit your POA. That is all shooting really is.
Correct. And as you said earlier there are at least two problems that cause shooting left.

1. Most handguns might already come from the factory sighted close enough for YOU, so you the shooter just goes with it and is happy. Some handguns need the sights adjusted. So YOU the shooter adjusts them.

2. Some shooters have crappy shooting technique. One kind of gun might not magnify it, so it is not noticed much by the shooter. But another kind of gun might magnify it to such an extent that the shooter blames the gun. This happens to a lot of new Glock owners.

If you are off target, you can be either #1 or #2.

If your group size at 5 yards is 2", then you are likely a #2. If your group size at 25 yards is 2", then you are likely #1.

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Old 05-12-2013, 07:25   #64
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Just got a gen3 19. First shot dead center(flyer? LOL), the rest where 2-3" left at 25 feet
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Old 05-12-2013, 15:30   #65
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Friend just got a Gen 4 G23. He is a good shot and it shoots left out of the box. About 1" left from point of aim at about 7 yards.

I used my trusty MGW rear sight tool and drifted the rear sight in small increments to the right. After each adjustment, 6 shots were fired. Now shoots point of aim.

So yes, his Glock shot left out of the box. I think with the money we spend on Glocks, it should shoot point of aim, but not every weapon will shoot the same for every shooter.

If you zero a rifle, why don't you zero your handgun.
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Old 05-12-2013, 17:13   #66
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my G19 and G17 both shot left....moved sight right...Happy......
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:42   #67
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Friend just got a Gen 4 G23. He is a good shot and it shoots left out of the box. About 1" left from point of aim at about 7 yards.

I used my trusty MGW rear sight tool and drifted the rear sight in small increments to the right. After each adjustment, 6 shots were fired. Now shoots point of aim.

So yes, his Glock shot left out of the box. I think with the money we spend on Glocks, it should shoot point of aim, but not every weapon will shoot the same for every shooter.

If you zero a rifle, why don't you zero your handgun.

Sure you can zero a handgun, but is it the right way? Zeroing a rifle is a totally different story because a lot more components influence the projectiles flight path in a amplified way because of the long distance you are mostly shooting with a rifle. There is the bullet drop due to gravitation, air resistance, etc. The spin drift of the projectile due to the rifling, then there is the rifle barrel flex, and a few more components which affect the flight path of a rifle projectile. All those factors above can be neglected when it comes to handguns shot under 50 meters. Adjustable sights on a handgun are a useless gimmick in my opinion. Glock's and other handguns are perfectly mechanically zeroed in, I am taking about the bore axis and the center line of the sights. There is also not enough play between the barrel and the slide that it might affect accuracy in a noticeable way. The lock up of a Glock is very tight.

Let's say everything in and on your Glock is perfectly aligned, you fire it and you hit every time 2-3 inches left, why? Sure you could simply push the rear sight to right in slow steps till you hit the center, but by doing that you cheat on yourself because you pull the trigger wrong, and/or something else.

Last edited by Made in Austria; 05-12-2013 at 19:02..
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:45   #68
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Sure you can zero a handgun, but is it the right way? Zeroing a rifle is a totally different story because a lot more components influence the projectiles flight path. There is the bullet drop, the spin drift of the prejectile due to the rifling, then there is the rifle barrel flex, and a few more components which affects a rifle projectile flight path. All these factors above can be neglected when it comes to handguns shot under 50 meters. Adjustable sights on a handgun are a useless gimmick in my opinion. Glock's and other handguns are perfectly mechanically zeroed in, I am taking about the bore axis and the center line of the sights.

Let's say everything in and on your Glock is perfectly aligned, you fire it and you hit every time 2-3 inches left, why? Sure you could simply push the rear sight to right in slow steps till you hit the center, but by doing that you cheat yourself because you pull the trigger wrong, and/or something else.
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Old 05-12-2013, 20:27   #69
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Someone else who gets it
I'm not saying you are wrong but I have fired several glocks and the only ones that have shot left are the two most recent ones I have bought. I am pretty sure it is the pistol and not me.
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Old 05-12-2013, 20:39   #70
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I'm not saying you are wrong but I have fired several glocks and the only ones that have shot left are the two most recent ones I have bought. I am pretty sure it is the pistol and not me.
I am not saying you are doing anything wrong either. Without seeing you shoot I can't say anything 100%.

All I am saying is, since 2008 out of all the times someone has told me, hey can you adjust my sights I'm off to the left, all but (2) times it was the shooter and not the sights. The (2) times it was the sights, after market sights had been installed.

The only point I was trying to raise previously in the thread to the other gentleman, is that his classic low and left syndrome is very typical with Glocks and people not use to them, notice I did not say "new shooter" only, but folks new to Glocks.

From my experience more so with the compact size frame (G19, G23. G32). If you take a full size Glock frame (G17) and compare it to the compact frame (G19) the finger grooves are not aligned the same, the spacing is different. Hence why it is so popular on the compact models that folks with large(r) hands like to have the finger grooves removed and also usually the trigger undercut to alleviate the discomfort on the knuckle under it. Being that the compact size Glock is one of the most popular of the entire lineup for CCW/Off Duty carry for it's conceal-ability it's no wonder why this is seen so often.

So back to part of what I originally said, without being there with the person, it's hard to say what if anything is being done wrong, but low and left with a right handed shooter is shooter error 99% of the time IMHO.

Once again, just my $0.02
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Old 05-12-2013, 21:25   #71
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This subject is quite puzzling isn't it? That some have problems shooting gen4's accurate could lie in the connector. Earlier gen4's cam with an heavy connector which made the trigger pull noticable heavier (about 5.5 lbs) than the pull in the gen3's and newer gen4's with a test fire date of late 2011, early 2012.
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Old 05-12-2013, 21:30   #72
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I was paying attention.
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Old 06-09-2013, 14:12   #73
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Well, I've owned several Glocks and every Gen 3 or older I'VE owned shot right on.
My two Gen 4's (21 and 27) both shot left. And I shoot fairly well.
Used a flat soft surface, a rag, a 3/8" bolt, and a small hammer to move the rear sight a little to the right.
Doesn't shoot left anymore.
Well, here we go.
Thursday I picked-up a Gen 4 G23. Got to shoot it today.
First of all let me say that I am truly impressed with the accuracy of this pistol.
But, another Gen 4 that shot left for me.
Once again, every one of my Gen 3's shoot POA. It was closer, less than an inch, tapped the sight a bit and now is on. However...
At seven yards off a sand bag my FMJ rounds hit about 1 1/2 - 2 inches HIGH. Ran the target out to 25 yards and was about 6 inches high. Ran my carry ammo (165 gr. Ranger T's) and it was a little closer to the X, but not much...
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Old 06-09-2013, 19:22   #74
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With my new gen 4 G22 it was pretty much me shooting left, but it was the sights shooting high. I had to replace the rear sight with a 6.1mm, and started placing the pad of my finger close to the joint instead of using the center of my pad. After doing that I had to tap the rear sight back to almost center, and I'm hitting center now.

I believe because of the rounded trigger, I was rocking to the left when squeezing the trigger with the center of my finger pad, and by moving it closer to my joint resulted in a straighter pull rearward.

Everybody's anatomy is different, and what works for others, may not work for some.
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