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Old 05-09-2013, 06:36   #1
MaxxAction
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Der Fuhrer would approve...

So...

this sheriff in fl. has been granted a millions bucks for an intervention program. Here is an excerpt from the story, a quote from the sheriff.

"“Every single incident, whether it’s Newtown, that movie theater, or the guy who spouts off at work and then goes home and kills his wife and two kids — in every single case, there were people who said they knew ahead of time that there was a problem,” Bradshaw said. “If the neighbor of the mom in Newtown had called somebody, this might have saved 25 kids’ lives.”

Bradshaw is readying a hotline and is planning public service announcements to encourage local citizens to report their neighbors, friends or family members if they fear they could harm themselves or others.

Anyone else see how this could get way out of hand? Hitler youth anyone?

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/...tion-un/nXbs4/
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:52   #2
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Obviously the sheriff should be reported many many many times. It seem he is giving warning signs that he COULD harm others.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:52   #3
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police have a pretty good idea how to sift through the b.s., revenge, petty, spitefull "tips"...
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:27   #4
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Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
police have a pretty good idea how to sift through the b.s., revenge, petty, spitefull "tips"...
Maybe you should talk to someone who lived in East Germany or Poland....
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:37   #5
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Maybe you should talk to someone who lived in East Germany or Poland....
Maybe you should apply some common sense, they're looking for patterns and not b.s. reports.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:40   #6
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Maybe you should apply some common sense, they're looking for patterns and not b.s. reports.
I do apply common sense. I work with people who lived in East Germany and Poland. I listen to what they say happened.

This is not ancient history. I was young, but I was in East Germany when it was still East Germany. This isnt some BS that was a story of old told by someone else. I was in East Germany. I work with people who lived under the regime.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:54   #7
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You r missing the real issue, most of these criminals already had a history of mental illness or previous criminal acts. Our Laws and the Lawyers tie the hands of those who intervene. There is very little money to support free mental health care and non concentual admissions and hold. (All been spent on criminal incarceration, and the war on drugs) And if the person is psychotic, 48 hr hold won't do much. They will still be psychotic when they get out...
The Newtown shooter was on and IEP and under special ed services until 21 YO and had been for many years. It did nothing to prevent this crime...
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:33   #8
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"You r missing the real issue, most of these criminals already had a history of mental illness or previous criminal acts."

There are millions more with the same disabling conditions who never turn into criminals. There is no way to predict the few who will.

Lots of people receive special ed services until they turn 22. The vast majority of them aren't crazy, disturbed, anti-social or anything you need to be scared of. You know they write IEPs for math problems, reading problems, poor organizational/study skills, etc.

I've seen no evidence that Mr. Lanza ever did anything violent up until he snapped. Maybe I missed something in the reports.

John

edited to add: Here are some numbers from the 1999-2000 school year (the first figures I found.)

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/overview/table10.asp

Number of students in the U.S. with an IEP = 5,810,658

Last edited by JohnBT; 05-09-2013 at 08:46..
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:39   #9
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Anyone my age (75) has seen this all before in the late 1930's and early 1940's.
The place was called Nazi Germany.

It's frightning just how many of Hitler's ideas are presented as a good way to control the people now days.
And it's frightning that otherwise intelligent people think things like this is are a good idea, until they get a knock on their door.

Good god, does no one learn from history.

Last edited by M2 Carbine; 05-09-2013 at 08:45..
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:50   #10
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You mean like the police encourage the reporting other drivers for supposed DUIs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxAction View Post
So...

this sheriff in fl. has been granted a millions bucks for an intervention program. Here is an excerpt from the story, a quote from the sheriff.

"“Every single incident, whether it’s Newtown, that movie theater, or the guy who spouts off at work and then goes home and kills his wife and two kids — in every single case, there were people who said they knew ahead of time that there was a problem,” Bradshaw said. “If the neighbor of the mom in Newtown had called somebody, this might have saved 25 kids’ lives.”

Bradshaw is readying a hotline and is planning public service announcements to encourage local citizens to report their neighbors, friends or family members if they fear they could harm themselves or others.

Anyone else see how this could get way out of hand? Hitler youth anyone?

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/...tion-un/nXbs4/
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:52   #11
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
You mean like the police encourage the reporting other drivers for supposed DUIs?
There is one difference here. A DUI is a crime being committed.

What this asking is people to report not crimes that are occurring but to report their fears..

"encourage local citizens to report their neighbors, friends or family members if they fear they could harm themselves or others."
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:01   #12
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"encourage local citizens to report their neighbors, friends or family members if they fear they could harm themselves or others."
So, you piss a neighbor off about something.
The neighbor figures he will cause you a little grief by reporting you are acting "strange".
You are "investigated".

Makes no difference the findings. From now on you are in the computer as having been "investigated".

Yeah, I think this is a swell program.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:04   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBT View Post
"You r missing the real issue, most of these criminals already had a history of mental illness or previous criminal acts."

There are millions more with the same disabling conditions who never turn into criminals. There is no way to predict the few who will.

Lots of people receive special ed services until they turn 22. The vast majority of them aren't crazy, disturbed, anti-social or anything you need to be scared of. You know they write IEPs for math problems, reading problems, poor organizational/study skills, etc.

I've seen no evidence that Mr. Lanza ever did anything violent up until he snapped. Maybe I missed something in the reports.

John

edited to add: Here are some numbers from the 1999-2000 school year (the first figures I found.)

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/overview/table10.asp

Number of students in the U.S. with an IEP = 5,810,658
John, I guess I did not make my point clear. I meant that he was already identified with issues and had received years of services. But that did nothing to deter him from crime. I certainly did not intend to imply anything else about IEP or special ed.
I have Asperger's and yet have owned guns for over 20 years, never commited a crime or used a gun other than in a lawful manner. In fact I will be the first to tear to shreads with facts, evidence and personal experiences, anyone suggesting that someone on the Autism spectrum should not own guns. Furthermore I can present evidence that persons with ASD are safer gun owners esp in a high stress "shoot, don't shoot setting". Having taken SSRI's for years I will never live in NY or visit a state that thinks they have the right to take my guns (without fair compensation no less) just based on a RX I took. Actually now found an alternate solution to meds that works better too.
PS, my son has an IEP for speech delays and social skills. My wife teaches Special Ed. Trust me I am on your side here.
Look at the latest 19 YO bomber. Popular, athletic, A student, full college scholarship etc. Blows any reporting issue due to whatever reason out of the water.
We will never bbe able to prevent all of these crimes. Eliminate religion would go a long way to it though. ( yes I know that's impossible utopian pipe dream)

Last edited by soutthpaw; 05-09-2013 at 09:08..
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:11   #14
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So the police chief is asking for people to report suspicious activity and you're screaming Hitler? Yeah maybe neighbors we shouldn't report anything. Those 3 girls held in captivity would've been found eventually...
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:15   #15
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So the police chief is asking for people to report suspicious activity and you're screaming Hitler? Yeah maybe neighbors we shouldn't report anything. Those 3 girls held in captivity would've been found eventually...
I thought we could all do this already? Its called 911. Or make the effort to look up the non emergency number for your local PD... what the chief is going to do is create a modern day version of the Salem witch hunts...
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:23   #16
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So the police chief is asking for people to report suspicious activity and you're screaming Hitler? Yeah maybe neighbors we shouldn't report anything. Those 3 girls held in captivity would've been found eventually...
Yeah...

reporting that your neighbor hates the government and could be a threat, and reporting that someone is currently holding three young women captive are totally the same thing. Whatever dude.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:26   #17
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Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post
I thought we could all do this already? Its called 911. Or make the effort to look up the non emergency number for your local PD... what the chief is going to do is create a modern day version of the Salem witch hunts...
Agreed...if I'm concerned that my neighbor is dangerous, then I'll call 911, not some mental health snitch line.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:50   #18
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Agreed...if I'm concerned that my neighbor is dangerous, then I'll call 911, not some mental health snitch line.
But see, if you use your common sense then the Sheriff doesn't have a million dollars of taxpayer money to piss away on a report your neighbor program.


I bet it would be interesting to see just where that million dollars goes.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:51   #19
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I agree with DanaT. If you want to see what could happen here, watch the oscar-winning foreign film "The Lives of Others". Great film about the security state, in this case the East German Stasi.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:53   #20
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Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
police have a pretty good idea how to sift through the b.s., revenge, petty, spitefull "tips"...
You know how they sift through them?

By making the life of the accused a living hell.

In 1993 my wife and I had our lives torn apart because of a false report. It was ultimately determined to be a "disgruntled relative". No one gave a damn about us or the damage it did to our lives. And when the state was satisfied it was a false report we had no recourse to go after the person who made the report.

Five years later they did it again. I still have no defense against the accusations. The second time one of the states concerns was that it was a second report and they closely reviewed the original accusation.

With enough false reports I feel the state will just give in and file charges just to be on the safe side.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:54   #21
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But see, if you use your common sense then the Sheriff doesn't have a million dollars of taxpayer money to piss away on a report your neighbor program.


I bet it would be interesting to see just where that million dollars goes.
Administrative costs, $990,000.00. Hotline setup, $10,000.00

Like all government prgrams, 99.9% waste.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:54   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
There is one difference here. A DUI is a crime being committed.

What this asking is people to report not crimes that are occurring but to report their fears..

"encourage local citizens to report their neighbors, friends or family members if they fear they could harm themselves or others."
How do you know that the other driver is driving under the influence? Maybe the car has mechanical issue. Maybe the driver is a diabetic who suffers from onset of hypoglycemia. Maybe getting some road head.

Sorry, but the brother ain't no nark, regardless of whatever crime du jour that the government is trying to foist.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:14   #23
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How do you know that the other driver is driving under the influence? Maybe the car has mechanical issue. Maybe the driver is a diabetic who suffers from onset of hypoglycemia. Maybe getting some road head.

Sorry, but the brother ain't no nark, regardless of whatever crime du jour that the government is trying to foist.
If the other driver is driving erratically, no matter the reason, then it is worthy of LE attention. It is only too bad that folks with diabetic-related issues often get identified as under the influence and pig-piled:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1265992.html

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...ounty-deputies
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:22   #24
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Five years later they did it again. I still have no defense against the accusations. The second time one of the states concerns was that it was a second report and they closely reviewed the original accusation.
Like I said, it doesn't matter the outcome of the "investigation". You are still in the computer showing you have been under "investigation".

Well hell, you must be up to something.

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Old 05-09-2013, 14:04   #25
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So the police chief is asking for people to report suspicious activity and you're screaming Hitler? Yeah maybe neighbors we shouldn't report anything. Those 3 girls held in captivity would've been found eventually...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxAction View Post
So...
Bradshaw is readying a hotline and is planning public service announcements to encourage local citizens to report their neighbors, friends or family members if they fear they could harm themselves or others.
I didnt see it is reporting suspicious activity but report if someone fears a person is could do something...
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