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Old 05-09-2013, 14:38   #41
EOS
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If I had to enter the building I would disarm myself and go in to conduct my buisiness, while making a note to avoid that paticular place in the future.

Property rights are as fundamental to a free people as the right to self defense. While we may not agree with the buisiness's policy, respecting other people's rights is the only way to keep our own.
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Old 05-09-2013, 14:49   #42
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I would inform the manager/owner that they no longer have my business, or my protection.

Easy as that....
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Old 05-09-2013, 15:15   #43
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Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post
I would agree with this for business properties. Plus signs are passive. Until a representative of the property asks you to leave the premesis, no crime has been committed. Except if its a known that u agreed to when getting a ccw. Such as no carry in federal buildings etc.
As long as u immediately leave when asked, no harm, no foul. The whole point is its concealed so how would anyone know.
If its a friends home. Then I would probably either respect their request or ask ahead of time. Or leave it in the car and then ask them about it and try to educate them and dispell the propaganda that made them post the sign.
Note I said friends, not aquaintences.
Don't know where you are getting this.

Many states list a penalty for failing to obey no guns signs.

Here in va our law says your permit is not valid if the property owner prohibits concealed carry. Ignore a sign and you could be charged with a misdemeanor for your first offense.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
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Old 05-09-2013, 15:38   #44
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Depends on where I lived I guess... If I was somewhere that such a sign prohibited me from taking a gun on the property, I would comply.

Here in Indiana, those signs are not worth whatever they are written on.. So I completely ignore them and carry anywhere I'm legally allowed. If an employee, manager, or police ask me to leave, I will gladly comply.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:42   #45
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Well said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnemyOfTheState View Post
If I had to enter the building I would disarm myself and go in to conduct my buisiness, while making a note to avoid that paticular place in the future.

Property rights are as fundamental to a free people as the right to self defense. While we may not agree with the buisiness's policy, respecting other people's rights is the only way to keep our own.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:05   #46
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Originally Posted by Ricky Ricardo View Post
Seriously though, I would leave and not come back. It's their property, so it's their right not to have weapons on their premises.

It's my money and my right to not spend it there.
Ricky,
It is their right to request I not bring a gun on their premises. However, it is my right to bear arms. In my state, all they can do is ask me to leave. If I then refused to leave, I'd be trespassing.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:10   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak View Post
Depends on where I lived I guess... If I was somewhere that such a sign prohibited me from taking a gun on the property, I would comply.

Here in Indiana, those signs are not worth whatever they are written on.. So I completely ignore them and carry anywhere I'm legally allowed. If an employee, manager, or police ask me to leave, I will gladly comply.
100% agree.

Same down here in KY (although I'm back and forth between the two states daily).

Basically, you can't carry into schools, daycares, courts, and police stations. Pretty obvious. Everywhere else, you're allowed to carry by law. I think the law is what we need to look at. The "no guns" signs are pretty rare around here anyway, but they carry no weight of law.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:39   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
Don't know where you are getting this.

Many states list a penalty for failing to obey no guns signs.

Here in va our law says your permit is not valid if the property owner prohibits concealed carry. Ignore a sign and you could be charged with a misdemeanor for your first offense.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
Only if the owner or his agent, wishes to press charges. He could just as easily allow you to remain in his business if he wants.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:52   #49
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Originally Posted by Ricky Ricardo View Post
Seriously though, I would leave and not come back. It's their property, so it's their right not to have weapons on their premises.

It's my money and my right to not spend it there.
Concur.

And, on top of that, I think it is irresponsible to leave your gun in the car if you believe it is safer on your person (which I do). I consider that a business which asks me to leave any firearm in the car unnecessarily is soliciting irresponsibility.

In that sense, the business itself is being irresponsible. How likely is it that other actions of the business -- like quality of products and services, customer service, or product guarantees -- are likely to be handled irresponsibly?

Last edited by dugo; 05-10-2013 at 06:54..
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:04   #50
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I respect the right of property owners. However, in the case of a business, I try to enter (unarmed), find a manager, and politely explain why they will not be getting my money. Maybe it has an effect, and maybe it doesn't. Either way, I will respect the rights of property owners to decide who is on there property, even if it doesn't necessarily have the force of law behind it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:07   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDeville View Post
I would inform the manager/owner that they no longer have my business, or my protection.

Easy as that....
Yep.

If the business decides to deprive me of my own personal protection, should the business be providing at least the degree of protection from potential criminals that it has asked me to give up?

Since most businesses let anyone on to the property without screening, there is no reduced risk on their property. Matter of fact, there is enhanced risk to me if the business is known to have anything worth stealing on site.

Businesses know all this, too. They know (or should know) they are asking that we give up personal protection just as we are stepping into enhanced personal risk that they allow.

Last edited by dugo; 05-11-2013 at 09:08..
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:15   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
Don't know where you are getting this.

Many states list a penalty for failing to obey no guns signs.

Here in va our law says your permit is not valid if the property owner prohibits concealed carry. Ignore a sign and you could be charged with a misdemeanor for your first offense.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
Simple. It has to be proven, that you saw, read and understood the sign. I just say I did not see the sign. Now if you are stupid enough to say yes I saw and understood the sign then guess its on you.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:16   #53
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Don't ask, don't tell; concealed means concealed.
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Old 05-10-2013, 15:20   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post
Simple. It has to be proven, that you saw, read and understood the sign. I just say I did not see the sign. Now if you are stupid enough to say yes I saw and understood the sign then guess its on you.

I wonder if that applies to, for instance, speeding, or running a stop sign also? Does it have to be proven that one saw, read, and understood the speed limit sign, or is proving that the sign was posted, was proper and was official is sufficient? Or maybe it varies depending on the location and statute?
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Old 05-10-2013, 15:28   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
Don't know where you are getting this.

Many states list a penalty for failing to obey no guns signs.

Here in va our law says your permit is not valid if the property owner prohibits concealed carry. Ignore a sign and you could be charged with a misdemeanor for your first offense.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
I've heard it the other way, the the majority of states those signs have no force of law. Regardless in Washington and Idaho (because I sometimes travel there) those signs have no force of law. I am just as within my rights to ignore the sign as they are to put it up in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
So you believe your rights matter and their rights don't. Winning. If death is so imminent should you stow your weapon while you're at Chuck-E-Cheese, however did you survive before you got a permit and started carrying everywhere?
See above, since state laws says those signs have no force of law I am as within my rights to ignore it as they are to put it up in the first place. I respect their right to put up any sign they want. I also respect their right to ask me to leave if they want. But I carry concealed, so they don't see it and they don't hear it.

Just because I have never needed to defend myself before doesn't mean I might not in the future. And any place that tries to make their business a gun free zone is where I feel most vulnerable because that sign basically tells criminals that everyone inside is defenseless, I choose not to be defenseless.

I like the idea. I'm going to Chuck-E-Cheese and I will be carrying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisville Glocker View Post
Ricky,
It is their right to request I not bring a gun on their premises. However, it is my right to bear arms. In my state, all they can do is ask me to leave. If I then refused to leave, I'd be trespassing.
^ THIS.

Last edited by Ryan WA; 05-10-2013 at 15:32..
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Old 05-10-2013, 16:08   #56
Ricky Ricardo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisville Glocker View Post
Ricky,
It is their right to request I not bring a gun on their premises. However, it is my right to bear arms. In my state, all they can do is ask me to leave. If I then refused to leave, I'd be trespassing.
It is indeed your right to bear arms just as it is my right as well. However, they still have the right to tell you to leave their property and to take your gun with you. And if they do ask you to leave I think you're a reasonable man and you will leave since you are aware of the consequences of not doing so.

Regards,

Ricky
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Old 05-10-2013, 16:17   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post
Simple. It has to be proven, that you saw, read and understood the sign. I just say I did not see the sign. Now if you are stupid enough to say yes I saw and understood the sign then guess its on you.
Wrong.

If a sign is legally posted there is no burden of proof on the poster with regards to your reading it. Just as it does not have to be proven that you read a "No Parking" sign in order for you to be ticketed.

Different State laws apply as to penalty or none at all, but "I didn't see the sign" is not an excuse. In fact, in my State, it is part and parcel of the permit rues that you read and obey such postings to retain your permit.

The onus is on the bearer.
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Old 05-10-2013, 20:22   #58
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Such nice people here. They believe they have the only rights in the world - businesses have none at all. Ever wonder if you're doing any good for the pro-gun movement?

You're not. All the people who're on the fence will see, is a bunch of egotistical clowns who have no respect for the wishes of others.

Oh, and LG - add jails to your list. Unless you'd like to visit the inside, that is. Carrying is a no-no.
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Old 05-10-2013, 20:32   #59
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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
Such nice people here. They believe they have the only rights in the world - businesses have none at all. Ever wonder if you're doing any good for the pro-gun movement?

You're not. All the people who're on the fence will see, is a bunch of egotistical clowns who have no respect for the wishes of others.

Oh, and LG - add jails to your list. Unless you'd like to visit the inside, that is. Carrying is a no-no.
I don't see anywhere where we said businesses don't have rights. You might want to reread there before making baseless accusations.

I myself have said they have the right to put up the sign. Under state law I may lawfully ignore it.

But ultimately they have the right to ask me to leave at any time for any reason including for carrying a gun sign or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Amazing how many of them will get their fur up and throw the words "socialist" or "collectivist" around, and yet they think nothing of setting aside a property owners rights because the business is "open to the public" as if that made it "public property".

I will bet, that if a business owner tossed someone out for trying to exercise their First Amendment right by passing out socialist or communist literature in the business, they would cheer that as "the owners right". In fact it is generally accepted that the property owner has the right to limit the First Amendment on their property.

Why do people think the Second is unlimited ?
Same as above, they have the right to put up a sign. They have the right to ask me to leave. Nobody is saying they don't have rights.

Last edited by Ryan WA; 05-10-2013 at 20:36..
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Old 05-10-2013, 20:33   #60
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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
Such nice people here. They believe they have the only rights in the world - businesses have none at all. Ever wonder if you're doing any good for the pro-gun movement?

You're not. All the people who're on the fence will see, is a bunch of egotistical clowns who have no respect for the wishes of others.

Oh, and LG - add jails to your list. Unless you'd like to visit the inside, that is. Carrying is a no-no.
Amazing how many of them will get their fur up and throw the words "socialist" or "collectivist" around, and yet they think nothing of setting aside a property owners rights because the business is "open to the public" as if that made it "public property".

I will bet, that if a business owner tossed someone out for trying to exercise their First Amendment right by passing out socialist or communist literature in the business, they would cheer that as "the owners right". In fact it is generally accepted that the property owner has the right to limit the First Amendment on their property.

Why do people think the Second is unlimited ?
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