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Old 05-08-2013, 19:54   #26
furioso2112
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Maybe the owner couldn't afford gun signs. Of course, if he had no gun signs and couldn't afford to buy any, maybe he could draw some gun signs. Good Samaritan that I am, I might draw some gun signs for him and leave them behind. Since he didn't have any, he'd probably appreciate them.

Yeah...anyway - there's a legal concept that if something is not prohibited by law, it is not illegal. In some states, private property owners where concealed carry is not statutorily prohibited can post that guns are not 'allowed' on their property, but the response for this is often very minimal - for instance, the property owner may ask the offending individual to leave the property, and if the offending individual refuses to leave, the property owner may lawfully treat him as a trespasser.

I would likely disregard the signs if I saw them. I probably would not give my business to a property that did not allow guns in the first place, though. If I am lawfully allowed to do something that is reasonable and a good idea for my community, I'll probably do it. I would discern between a home and business, though - I would not do something against a person's lawful, known wishes in his home. A business is different - community resources support businesses in different ways than they do individuals - tax breaks, roads, insurance, fire and police, zoning, etc., etc., etc., businesses get great benefits from society and therefore there are different standards. The USSC has upheld the strongest threshold at a person's residence - higher than any other place - and it should be afforded this special treatment. To put a business on the exact same field as a home is a mistake. Very nearly equivalent, in many ways, different but similar, okay - but a home should always maintain a clear and exclusive threshold as a place where a person can count on the highest degree of privacy and reasonable treatment.
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Old 05-08-2013, 21:25   #27
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The Best Defense

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Old 05-08-2013, 21:31   #28
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If the sign says No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service, I'll comply.

But if it says No Guns Allowed I'm liable to shoot up the place.


Sorry, I just wasn't brung up right.







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Old 05-09-2013, 04:48   #29
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Axaxiom and Ryobi would be correct.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:39   #30
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If I became aware that a property owner, manager, proper authority of any place or business didn't want firearms on the property, I would respect their rights to make that decision and honor it. I am not one who needs "force of law" before I will respect others rights.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:14   #31
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Originally Posted by Captain Caveman View Post
What I was getting at, is could gun owners be considered a "minority group"? With all the protections and rights afforded other "minority groups"? Could someone who discriminates against gun owners actually be guilty of a hate crime under Federal law?
Don't think you'll ever see that happen. We are not exactly viewed in a favorable light by the press or many politicians.

Anyway, I don't recognize minority groups, protected classes, or special rights groups. The Constitution says nothing whatsoever about any of this so therefore as far as I'm concerned, this sort of behavior on the part of government is unconstitutional.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:31   #32
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If I became aware that a property owner, manager, proper authority of any place or business didn't want firearms on the property, I would respect their rights to make that decision and honor it. I am not one who needs "force of law" before I will respect others rights.
Yep. Their property, their decision. There are a few places I patronize that I suspect MAY have a sign somewhere, but I have not seen it and I certainly am not going to go out of my way to look for it. One is a movie theater and one is an enclosed shopping mall. In those places I conceal. In places where there is a sign prominently displayed, I will not give them my business and will find some other place that wants my business.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:35   #33
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This is not hard. It's private property. You respect the clearly stated wishes of the property owner. Or, you leave. To suppose that you wait for the property owner asks you to leave is just an excuse for being dishonest.

Personally I would consider the property owner fully within his rights to call the police and have them remove anyone who disregarded clear signage and choose to come on the property carrying a weapon. The property owner has every right to completely control the conditions under which anyone comes on his property. His rights as a property owner trump those of all others. If they don't want to enter his property according to the conditions he sets, they have the choice either to leave their weapon behind or else to not come onto the property. It is not up to the property owner to accommodate the preferences of other people who want to conceal carry.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:37   #34
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I'd treat such a sign the same way I'd treat a "No Colored Allowed" sign (if such things as anti-discrimination laws did not exist.) Ignore it if they had something I needed or wanted and it was inconvenient to go someplace else and next time go someplace else with my money and spend it where it was appreciated the next opportunity.

Can you imagine the _____storm that would erupt if someone put up a "No Democrats or Liberals" sign on their store's door?
That would be fun with a hidden video to film the reactions... ya might end up with a Youtube viral video.
Even better. How about a "No Theists" sign. You want a firestorm, put up a no Christians, Jews or Muslims sign and video the reactions....
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:38   #35
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This is not hard. It's private property. You respect the clearly stated wishes of the property owner.
With all due respect, my safety is more important than some corporate policy.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:53   #36
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With all due respect, my safety is more important than some corporate policy.
I would agree with this for business properties. Plus signs are passive. Until a representative of the property asks you to leave the premesis, no crime has been committed. Except if its a known that u agreed to when getting a ccw. Such as no carry in federal buildings etc.
As long as u immediately leave when asked, no harm, no foul. The whole point is its concealed so how would anyone know.
If its a friends home. Then I would probably either respect their request or ask ahead of time. Or leave it in the car and then ask them about it and try to educate them and dispell the propaganda that made them post the sign.
Note I said friends, not aquaintences.

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:54   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
Don't think you'll ever see that happen. We are not exactly viewed in a favorable light by the press or many politicians.

Anyway, I don't recognize minority groups, protected classes, or special rights groups. The Constitution says nothing whatsoever about any of this so therefore as far as I'm concerned, this sort of behavior on the part of government is unconstitutional.

I don't agree either. But why not use their own rules and laws against 'em? Just sayin...
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:05   #38
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So you believe your rights matter and their rights don't. Winning. If death is so imminent should you stow your weapon while you're at Chuck-E-Cheese, however did you survive before you got a permit and started carrying everywhere?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan WA View Post
With all due respect, my safety is more important than some corporate policy.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:07   #39
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I don't agree either. But why not use their own rules and laws against 'em? Just sayin...
Yes, I enjoy poetic justice. It's fun when they get bitten by their own nonsense.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:15   #40
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Private Home? Point and laugh and tell them they gonna get robbed killed and rape.....maybe not in that order ......since they just went way way way up on the criminal top 10 places.
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Old 05-09-2013, 14:38   #41
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If I had to enter the building I would disarm myself and go in to conduct my buisiness, while making a note to avoid that paticular place in the future.

Property rights are as fundamental to a free people as the right to self defense. While we may not agree with the buisiness's policy, respecting other people's rights is the only way to keep our own.
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Old 05-09-2013, 14:49   #42
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I would inform the manager/owner that they no longer have my business, or my protection.

Easy as that....
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Old 05-09-2013, 15:15   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post
I would agree with this for business properties. Plus signs are passive. Until a representative of the property asks you to leave the premesis, no crime has been committed. Except if its a known that u agreed to when getting a ccw. Such as no carry in federal buildings etc.
As long as u immediately leave when asked, no harm, no foul. The whole point is its concealed so how would anyone know.
If its a friends home. Then I would probably either respect their request or ask ahead of time. Or leave it in the car and then ask them about it and try to educate them and dispell the propaganda that made them post the sign.
Note I said friends, not aquaintences.
Don't know where you are getting this.

Many states list a penalty for failing to obey no guns signs.

Here in va our law says your permit is not valid if the property owner prohibits concealed carry. Ignore a sign and you could be charged with a misdemeanor for your first offense.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
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Old 05-09-2013, 15:38   #44
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Depends on where I lived I guess... If I was somewhere that such a sign prohibited me from taking a gun on the property, I would comply.

Here in Indiana, those signs are not worth whatever they are written on.. So I completely ignore them and carry anywhere I'm legally allowed. If an employee, manager, or police ask me to leave, I will gladly comply.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:42   #45
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Well said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnemyOfTheState View Post
If I had to enter the building I would disarm myself and go in to conduct my buisiness, while making a note to avoid that paticular place in the future.

Property rights are as fundamental to a free people as the right to self defense. While we may not agree with the buisiness's policy, respecting other people's rights is the only way to keep our own.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:05   #46
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Seriously though, I would leave and not come back. It's their property, so it's their right not to have weapons on their premises.

It's my money and my right to not spend it there.
Ricky,
It is their right to request I not bring a gun on their premises. However, it is my right to bear arms. In my state, all they can do is ask me to leave. If I then refused to leave, I'd be trespassing.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:10   #47
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Depends on where I lived I guess... If I was somewhere that such a sign prohibited me from taking a gun on the property, I would comply.

Here in Indiana, those signs are not worth whatever they are written on.. So I completely ignore them and carry anywhere I'm legally allowed. If an employee, manager, or police ask me to leave, I will gladly comply.
100% agree.

Same down here in KY (although I'm back and forth between the two states daily).

Basically, you can't carry into schools, daycares, courts, and police stations. Pretty obvious. Everywhere else, you're allowed to carry by law. I think the law is what we need to look at. The "no guns" signs are pretty rare around here anyway, but they carry no weight of law.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:39   #48
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Don't know where you are getting this.

Many states list a penalty for failing to obey no guns signs.

Here in va our law says your permit is not valid if the property owner prohibits concealed carry. Ignore a sign and you could be charged with a misdemeanor for your first offense.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
Only if the owner or his agent, wishes to press charges. He could just as easily allow you to remain in his business if he wants.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:52   #49
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Seriously though, I would leave and not come back. It's their property, so it's their right not to have weapons on their premises.

It's my money and my right to not spend it there.
Concur.

And, on top of that, I think it is irresponsible to leave your gun in the car if you believe it is safer on your person (which I do). I consider that a business which asks me to leave any firearm in the car unnecessarily is soliciting irresponsibility.

In that sense, the business itself is being irresponsible. How likely is it that other actions of the business -- like quality of products and services, customer service, or product guarantees -- are likely to be handled irresponsibly?

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Old 05-10-2013, 07:04   #50
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I respect the right of property owners. However, in the case of a business, I try to enter (unarmed), find a manager, and politely explain why they will not be getting my money. Maybe it has an effect, and maybe it doesn't. Either way, I will respect the rights of property owners to decide who is on there property, even if it doesn't necessarily have the force of law behind it.
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