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Old 05-08-2013, 12:45   #21
cowboywannabe
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what sign?

if you later notice one, dont patronize them.
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Old 05-08-2013, 15:21   #22
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For a private property owner such as an individual, I'd respect their wish and not carry on their property; subsequently, when I place my firearm in my vehicle; my vehicle would leave the premises and I would be with it. They have the right to make a request, I have a right to make determination; abide or not to...most generally not to stay.



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Old 05-08-2013, 17:19   #23
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Depends on whether I'm in the mood to conduct myself as an adult who can read, or as a societal reject who chooses to ignore, or pretends to be ignorant of, the basic rules of gentlemanly conduct.
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Old 05-08-2013, 18:50   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
OP are you talking of Commercial store or Private homes? If your talking private home and the owner has a no guns sign - I'd have no buisness to ever go into or on that property! Even if it was family or a friends home! Commercial property open to anyone and as you said sign has ZERO legal meaning while carring if I absolutely needed to spend my money there I would just go in an would give two craps about there sign! But on the other hand if I could spend my money somewhere else thats what I'd do!
I've never seen a residence with a no gun sign...unless you count the one on this video:

On a serious note, I was referring to businesses. Personally I'm not going to change where I go just because of a sign that means nothing anyway. And I most certainly will still carry, my safety is more important than some corporate policy.

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Originally Posted by FourthPointOfContact View Post
Can you imagine the _____storm that would erupt if someone put up a "No Democrats or Liberals" sign on their store's door?
I would...if I had a business. Knowing its just as enforceable as a no guns sign, I can ask them to leave.

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Originally Posted by AXaxiom View Post
He already asked you not to come in. now you think its OK unless he asks you to leave.
Do you understand RESPECT?
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Originally Posted by Ryobi View Post
Depends on whether I'm in the mood to conduct myself as an adult who can read, or as a societal reject who chooses to ignore, or pretends to be ignorant of, the basic rules of gentlemanly conduct.
Nobody said anything. It's just a sign, most likely up due to some corporate policy. If local management has a problem they are free to say something, but they won't, because its concealed. They don't see it, they don't hear it. But if there is a robbery that goes bad, my bet is the manager would be glad I ignored the sign after I save his life. Am I going to give corporate america the same consideration I'd give to an individual? What have they done to earn such respect? Nothing in my book.

Last edited by Ryan WA; 05-08-2013 at 19:15..
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Old 05-08-2013, 19:32   #25
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Old 05-08-2013, 19:54   #26
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Maybe the owner couldn't afford gun signs. Of course, if he had no gun signs and couldn't afford to buy any, maybe he could draw some gun signs. Good Samaritan that I am, I might draw some gun signs for him and leave them behind. Since he didn't have any, he'd probably appreciate them.

Yeah...anyway - there's a legal concept that if something is not prohibited by law, it is not illegal. In some states, private property owners where concealed carry is not statutorily prohibited can post that guns are not 'allowed' on their property, but the response for this is often very minimal - for instance, the property owner may ask the offending individual to leave the property, and if the offending individual refuses to leave, the property owner may lawfully treat him as a trespasser.

I would likely disregard the signs if I saw them. I probably would not give my business to a property that did not allow guns in the first place, though. If I am lawfully allowed to do something that is reasonable and a good idea for my community, I'll probably do it. I would discern between a home and business, though - I would not do something against a person's lawful, known wishes in his home. A business is different - community resources support businesses in different ways than they do individuals - tax breaks, roads, insurance, fire and police, zoning, etc., etc., etc., businesses get great benefits from society and therefore there are different standards. The USSC has upheld the strongest threshold at a person's residence - higher than any other place - and it should be afforded this special treatment. To put a business on the exact same field as a home is a mistake. Very nearly equivalent, in many ways, different but similar, okay - but a home should always maintain a clear and exclusive threshold as a place where a person can count on the highest degree of privacy and reasonable treatment.
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Old 05-08-2013, 21:25   #27
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Old 05-08-2013, 21:31   #28
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If the sign says No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service, I'll comply.

But if it says No Guns Allowed I'm liable to shoot up the place.


Sorry, I just wasn't brung up right.







Last edited by ChuteTheMall; 05-08-2013 at 21:32..
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:48   #29
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Axaxiom and Ryobi would be correct.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:39   #30
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If I became aware that a property owner, manager, proper authority of any place or business didn't want firearms on the property, I would respect their rights to make that decision and honor it. I am not one who needs "force of law" before I will respect others rights.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:14   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Caveman View Post
What I was getting at, is could gun owners be considered a "minority group"? With all the protections and rights afforded other "minority groups"? Could someone who discriminates against gun owners actually be guilty of a hate crime under Federal law?
Don't think you'll ever see that happen. We are not exactly viewed in a favorable light by the press or many politicians.

Anyway, I don't recognize minority groups, protected classes, or special rights groups. The Constitution says nothing whatsoever about any of this so therefore as far as I'm concerned, this sort of behavior on the part of government is unconstitutional.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:31   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
If I became aware that a property owner, manager, proper authority of any place or business didn't want firearms on the property, I would respect their rights to make that decision and honor it. I am not one who needs "force of law" before I will respect others rights.
Yep. Their property, their decision. There are a few places I patronize that I suspect MAY have a sign somewhere, but I have not seen it and I certainly am not going to go out of my way to look for it. One is a movie theater and one is an enclosed shopping mall. In those places I conceal. In places where there is a sign prominently displayed, I will not give them my business and will find some other place that wants my business.
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Last edited by SouthernBoyVA; 05-09-2013 at 12:00..
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:35   #33
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This is not hard. It's private property. You respect the clearly stated wishes of the property owner. Or, you leave. To suppose that you wait for the property owner asks you to leave is just an excuse for being dishonest.

Personally I would consider the property owner fully within his rights to call the police and have them remove anyone who disregarded clear signage and choose to come on the property carrying a weapon. The property owner has every right to completely control the conditions under which anyone comes on his property. His rights as a property owner trump those of all others. If they don't want to enter his property according to the conditions he sets, they have the choice either to leave their weapon behind or else to not come onto the property. It is not up to the property owner to accommodate the preferences of other people who want to conceal carry.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:37   #34
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I'd treat such a sign the same way I'd treat a "No Colored Allowed" sign (if such things as anti-discrimination laws did not exist.) Ignore it if they had something I needed or wanted and it was inconvenient to go someplace else and next time go someplace else with my money and spend it where it was appreciated the next opportunity.

Can you imagine the _____storm that would erupt if someone put up a "No Democrats or Liberals" sign on their store's door?
That would be fun with a hidden video to film the reactions... ya might end up with a Youtube viral video.
Even better. How about a "No Theists" sign. You want a firestorm, put up a no Christians, Jews or Muslims sign and video the reactions....
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:38   #35
Ryan WA
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This is not hard. It's private property. You respect the clearly stated wishes of the property owner.
With all due respect, my safety is more important than some corporate policy.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:53   #36
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With all due respect, my safety is more important than some corporate policy.
I would agree with this for business properties. Plus signs are passive. Until a representative of the property asks you to leave the premesis, no crime has been committed. Except if its a known that u agreed to when getting a ccw. Such as no carry in federal buildings etc.
As long as u immediately leave when asked, no harm, no foul. The whole point is its concealed so how would anyone know.
If its a friends home. Then I would probably either respect their request or ask ahead of time. Or leave it in the car and then ask them about it and try to educate them and dispell the propaganda that made them post the sign.
Note I said friends, not aquaintences.

Last edited by soutthpaw; 05-09-2013 at 08:54..
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:54   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
Don't think you'll ever see that happen. We are not exactly viewed in a favorable light by the press or many politicians.

Anyway, I don't recognize minority groups, protected classes, or special rights groups. The Constitution says nothing whatsoever about any of this so therefore as far as I'm concerned, this sort of behavior on the part of government is unconstitutional.

I don't agree either. But why not use their own rules and laws against 'em? Just sayin...
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:05   #38
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So you believe your rights matter and their rights don't. Winning. If death is so imminent should you stow your weapon while you're at Chuck-E-Cheese, however did you survive before you got a permit and started carrying everywhere?
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With all due respect, my safety is more important than some corporate policy.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:07   #39
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I don't agree either. But why not use their own rules and laws against 'em? Just sayin...
Yes, I enjoy poetic justice. It's fun when they get bitten by their own nonsense.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:15   #40
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Private Home? Point and laugh and tell them they gonna get robbed killed and rape.....maybe not in that order ......since they just went way way way up on the criminal top 10 places.
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