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Old 05-09-2013, 12:10   #81
KalashniKEV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsurfboard View Post
How would you know, as it seems you have never shot anything other then Glock.
Huh?

I shoot everything under the sun!

I've literally got a pile of SIG...
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Old 05-09-2013, 14:06   #82
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Good. I really love my Glocks, but S&W is far more in tune with what the public wants. Plus, looking at it from a departments point of view, S&W makes AR-15 rifles, 15-22s for "training guns", small single stack 9mms (shield), and small revolvers. S&W, an American company, provides everything a consumer or department could need. Glock provides duty handguns and that's it. Oh, along with those knives......
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Old 05-09-2013, 14:58   #83
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You should remember that PD's, SO's etc. choose the least expensive guns they can buy, not necessarily the best guns. I'm not knocking S&W guns because I like them also. Just sayin'.
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Old 05-09-2013, 15:19   #84
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Huh?

I shoot everything under the sun!

I've literally got a pile of SIG...
You are out of my league. I have never shot that many different guns...
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Old 05-09-2013, 16:45   #85
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Single stack carry guns are a fad.
Just when I thought your nonsense couldn't get any more ridiculous...
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Old 05-09-2013, 16:48   #86
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
I'm pretty sure you understood exactly what I was talking about, but to clarify-

Two years from now all the LC9/Nano/BodyGuard/DB9/TCP/PF-Chang's/PM9/PPS/Shield shooters are going to be on the line next to a Glock 26 shooter and realize that a better trigger, better sights, more reliability, and in some cases better and more concealable H/W dimensions are worth the extra .25" difference in width... which also gives a better grip and contributes to better accuracy.

Access to the wide world of Glock mags, holsters, accessories, and repair parts is just a perk.

(and then a Glock 19 shooter will show up and they'll realize that G19 is truly the way to go)


I think it would be best that you stay in General Glocking. You'll find many more brainwashed folk over there.
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Old 05-09-2013, 16:54   #87
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Single stack carry guns are a fad.
Yeah the 1911 is just a fad. Really? Lol. C'mon bud... Lay off the koolaid


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
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Old 05-09-2013, 17:59   #88
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I'm glad I don't need external validation in order to make me feel warm and fuzzy about the guns I choose for defense. I look for quality guns that meet my needs, I could care less about what the FBI's HRT carries or what pistol Deputy Gump over at the county court house has in his holster. With the huge variety of quality guns available today why limit your choices to whatever a bureaucracy chooses or the cool kids on the interweb say you have to have?
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Old 05-09-2013, 18:39   #89
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Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
I wonder if Glock and Smith, etc. actually make a ton of money from these department purchases or if its purpose is just for locking in marketing collateral.
In his book on Glock, Barrett said it costs $80-$90 to make a Glock. For that, they can offer steep discounts to LEOs, turn a good profit and capture market share. Meanwhile, Glock can soak the civilian market for full freight.

Smith may have the same strategy.

If I find a nice M&P I may pick one up...meanwhile, my Steyr is keeping me happy.
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Old 05-09-2013, 21:37   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pier23 View Post
In his book on Glock, Barrett said it costs $80-$90 to make a Glock. For that, they can offer steep discounts to LEOs, turn a good profit and capture market share. Meanwhile, Glock can soak the civilian market for full freight.

Smith may have the same strategy.

If I find a nice M&P I may pick one up...meanwhile, my Steyr is keeping me happy.
Those are nice margins.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:55   #91
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[QUOTE=KalashniKEV;20256093]Glock doesn't chase trends. They are the rock.
QUOTE]

Your kidding right?? Glock was the trend at one time, now it's just another pistol that is being past by, by modern thinking and design features.
You can keep your blinders on if you wish, and drink your cool aid and continue to believe what you want, and talk such utter nonsense, but don't expect the rest of the world to sit by and not see the obvious.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:06   #92
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Like them or don't like them. But they're the dominant gun for professional use, with no close second as far as market share. They are not the only good gun out there anymore, to be sure. If glocks weren't available, I wouldn't hesitate to carry an XD or a Sig. [quote=Bob Hafler;20279958]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Glock doesn't chase trends. They are the rock.
QUOTE]

Your kidding right?? Glock was the trend at one time, now it's just another pistol that is being past by, by modern thinking and design features.
You can keep your blinders on if you wish, and drink your cool aid and continue to believe what you want, and talk such utter nonsense, but don't expect the rest of the world to sit by and not see the obvious.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:27   #93
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post


The Steyr has an improper grip angle better suited for anti-aircraft use
On Steyrs we shall disagree. The grip angle for me is perfect, and I for one LOVE the sights. Yes, they are different. Yes, the Steyr sights on the plave of the target rather than say 6oclock, so until you realize this, shots will drift low. The M-class safety is unique and very well considered. I am surprised it has both not been copied and exported to the U.S. in the A1 versions.

This is an M&P/Glock thread, but I did not want Steyr slander to go unchallenged. <hmmph>

Last edited by Pier23; 05-10-2013 at 07:46..
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:38   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pier23 View Post
In his book on Glock, Barrett said it costs $80-$90 to make a Glock. For that, they can offer steep discounts to LEOs, turn a good profit and capture market share. Meanwhile, Glock can soak the civilian market for full freight.

Smith may have the same strategy.

If I find a nice M&P I may pick one up...meanwhile, my Steyr is keeping me happy.
The numbers he quotes, if I recall correctly, are the raw costs; meaning, it doesn't include labor/marketing etc., so those are a little misleading.

As for Glock loosing market share; unless one has inside information, only the internals of Glock know that answer. I'm not saying they haven't, but on the flip side, they maybe gaining market share....who knows. Glock/S&W generally don't release those numbers, except for generally.

Anecdotal only, but S&W has been trying to make inroads with local LEAs in my area; however, they haven't been real successful.

One needs to remember, Glock's business plan is for military/LEA first...then the public (retail) market. While the other Glock imitators are opposite...retail, then the military/LEA market.



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Old 05-10-2013, 06:40   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecoastie View Post
I'm glad I don't need external validation in order to make me feel warm and fuzzy about the guns I choose for defense. I look for quality guns that meet my needs, I could care less about what the FBI's HRT carries or what pistol Deputy Gump over at the county court house has in his holster. With the huge variety of quality guns available today why limit your choices to whatever a bureaucracy chooses or the cool kids on the interweb say you have to have?
The '70s and '80s saw the development of common development trends in Japanese motorcycles -four cylinder air cooled engine, similar seat to handlebar ratios and so forth. This gave way to the acronym UJM -Universal Japanese Motorcycle.

I think we are entering the same era with handguns. In truth, a midsize Glock is largely indistuingishable from a comparable M&P, Steyr, Beretta, Walther or what have you. Sig and Kahr have kept their own course, but that is about it. Everyone else is producing the Universal Glock Pistol (UGP) in one form or another.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:09   #96
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Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
Just when I thought your nonsense couldn't get any more ridiculous...
It's true though.

The next time you're in a crowded place, imagine that everyone around you is carrying one of those little dinky single stack 9mms... with their tiny little mags... all just a few rounds away from slide lock.

If you're carrying a G19 among them, it's a god-like feeling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS104 View Post
Yeah the 1911 is just a fad. Really? Lol. C'mon bud... Lay off the koolaid
This was clarified in Post #73.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hafler View Post
Your kidding right?? Glock was the trend at one time
Glock was the Game Changer, not a trend.

Now the majority of professional users with a choice are going striker fired.

One could argue that the jump to polymer framed, striker fired was the biggest development in auto pistols ever- more than the jump to double column, single feed mags or the jump to DA/SA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
Like them or don't like them. But they're the dominant gun for professional use, with no close second as far as market share.
I think ACE might be switching to the Steyr M9azoid pistol this summer... I heard a rumor at this really cool gun store that has a snack bar inside.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:26   #97
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
It's true though.

The next time you're in a crowded place, imagine that everyone around you is carrying one of those little dinky single stack 9mms... with their tiny little mags... all just a few rounds away from slide lock.

If you're carrying a G19 among them, it's a god-like feeling.


You have some issues, is all I can say. Why make a total fool of yourself?

I like Glocks, but I'm a realist. You clearly aren't.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:32   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
...
If you're carrying a G19 among them, it's a god-like feeling.


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Old 05-10-2013, 09:51   #99
joecoastie
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Originally Posted by Pier23 View Post
The '70s and '80s saw the development of common development trends in Japanese motorcycles -four cylinder air cooled engine, similar seat to handlebar ratios and so forth. This gave way to the acronym UJM -Universal Japanese Motorcycle.

I think we are entering the same era with handguns. In truth, a midsize Glock is largely indistuingishable from a comparable M&P, Steyr, Beretta, Walther or what have you. Sig and Kahr have kept their own course, but that is about it. Everyone else is producing the Universal Glock Pistol (UGP) in one form or another.
I totally agree, I think all the current poly guns are pretty much equal as far as quality and reliability. Some may have features that make them more or less desirable depending on the person .

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
It's true though.

The next time you're in a crowded place, imagine that everyone around you is carrying one of those little dinky single stack 9mms... with their tiny little mags... all just a few rounds away from slide lock.

If you're carrying a G19 among them, it's a god-like feeling.
I really don't concern myself with what other people carry unless they are coming after me with ill intent or are part of my boarding team at work.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:03   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
It's true though.

The next time you're in a crowded place, imagine that everyone around you is carrying one of those little dinky single stack 9mms... with their tiny little mags... all just a few rounds away from slide lock.

If you're carrying a G19 among them, it's a god-like feeling.
Until you start shooting and the Glock produces shotgun patterns.

Quote:
Glock was the Game Changer, not a trend.
I will give Glock the credit of giving out a nice serviceable handgun with good price.

Quote:
Now the majority of professional users with a choice are going striker fired.

One could argue that the jump to polymer framed, striker fired was the biggest development in auto pistols ever- more than the jump to double column, single feed mags or the jump to DA/SA.
Of which started by the HK VP70, and not by Glock.
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