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Old 05-08-2013, 14:37   #61
Roger G23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hafler View Post
I've been noticing quite a few smaller PD's in my area switching from Glocks. Looks like they lost another pretty good size account in Texas.

http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/texas...)&utm_content=
M&Ps are outstanding pistols! Got four now. Handle the .40 better than Glock. Ergoes second to none.
Shield is the CCW I've been hoping for almost 20 years!
Still love my Glocks though.
Gotta OD Green G19 on the way.
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Old 05-08-2013, 14:56   #62
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Originally Posted by Roger G23 View Post
M&Ps are outstanding pistols! Got four now. Handle the .40 better than Glock. Ergoes second to none.
Shield is the CCW I've been hoping for almost 20 years!
Still love my Glocks though.
Gotta OD Green G19 on the way.
The M&P was designed around the .40 round from the get go. Not a 9mm rechambered for .40 like most pistols are.
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Old 05-08-2013, 17:14   #63
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Originally Posted by wjv View Post
- Single stack

- Pocket guns

- Pistol caliber carbines

Why would a company ignore such a huge segment of their market?
I hate to jump off topic but I've been saying the same thing for years!!! If glock came out with a slim line single stacked micro pistol in 9 & 40 they would corner the market.
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Old 05-08-2013, 17:34   #64
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Says who? You?
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Yes.
In that case, I think its time to lay off the Kool-Aid.

There's another sub-forum for that.
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Last edited by bac1023; 05-08-2013 at 17:35..
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Old 05-08-2013, 17:59   #65
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Glock doesn't chase trends. They are the rock.

Besides that, there's always going to be the "gotta be different" crowd- which there is no point in chasing anyway, because their goal is to differentiate themselves from the crowd.



The Steyr has an improper grip angle better suited for anti-aircraft use.



I've shot them. I agree that they are well made, but their numerous flaws have prevented them from being picked up by any serious user.

If you were in the market a few years back, you could have picked one up for peanuts from CDNN on closeout. They feature "straight up ejection" and have bad mags with weak springs though.



In addition to the grip angle issue, there is the freaky-deaky stock sights (easily replaced) and a general awkwardness to the balance and ergos... which was made even worse with the addition of a rail.

I know that grip angle is a matter of personal preference, and truly if you drive the front sight on target the angle *should* be irrelevant... but you shouldn't have to fight the gun either, IMO.

I will say that the trigger is Glock-like, and far better than any M&P I've felt.



Back to the M&P- Trusted people are still saying "Apex parts are a must" with these. I would tend to agree.

If they can solve their barrel issues (I've heard they did and I've heard they didn't) and somehow get Randy Lee to sign over his patents ($$,$$$,$$$) then I think they'd certainly have a shot at challenging Glock on performance, without modification.

Until then they will compete on price to get professional users and sell parts kits to the gotta-be-different crowd.
As I thought a Glock fan boy. The M&P is a combat weapon, not a target gun. There is nothing functionally wrong with the M&P trigger, people that use the Apex do it as a matter of taste, not reliability. You also say that Glock doesn't chase trends? What do you call the Gen 4 that was rushed out and not ready for prime time at it's release.
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Old 05-08-2013, 18:05   #66
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Originally Posted by mrsurfboard View Post
As I thought a Glock fan boy. The M&P is a combat weapon, not a target gun. There is nothing functionally wrong with the M&P trigger, people that use the Apex do it as a matter of taste, not reliability. You also say that Glock doesn't chase trends? What do you call the Gen 4 that was rushed out and not ready for prime time at it's release.
Exactly.

The Gen 4 is a prime example of chasing trends.
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Old 05-08-2013, 18:11   #67
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as for the "reset" problem on the early M&P's, I heard someone say " I concentrate on the target, not the reset"

I have M&P's ( 2- 9c's) and a Glock 19, like them both (but I like the Hi Power best of all!!!)
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Old 05-08-2013, 18:14   #68
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I wish they would go back to Gen 2 as far as function. I like the finish on the frame of the Gen4 but would give that up in a heartbeat to have Gen2 boring reliability. I don't think Glock is loosing ground because they have not kept up with innovation. Rather the opposite. They now have the fancy do-dads like replaceable backstraps but they do not have what made them what they are= boring reliability. Innovate the outside of the gun and add do-dads if you must but leave the guts of the gun alone when it's right. I'm not a Glock hater. The reputation of the Gen2 G19 is what led me to buy a new Gen4 G19. Other than the model number there's no comparison between the two.
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Old 05-08-2013, 18:14   #69
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I hate to jump off topic but I've been saying the same thing for years!!! If glock came out with a slim line single stacked micro pistol in 9 & 40 they would corner the market.
Single stack carry guns are a fad.
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Old 05-08-2013, 19:37   #70
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Single stack carry guns are a fad.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:21   #71
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Single stack carry guns are a fad.
Yeah, a 113-years-old fad.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:24   #72
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Still by far the dominant police weapon in the U.S. But it's true, departments switch to or from Glock every day. I don't see them losing ground, as they normally don't make decisions based upon internet rumor. Glocks still are boringly reliable (glaringly so compared to M&P), and always have been. But there are more quality gun brands available now. Maybe not on par with glock, but close. A decade or so ago, there was nothing that compared overall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hafler View Post
I've been noticing quite a few smaller PD's in my area switching from Glocks. Looks like they lost another pretty good size account in Texas.

http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/texas...)&utm_content=
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:54   #73
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Yeah, a 113-years-old fad.
I'm pretty sure you understood exactly what I was talking about, but to clarify-

Two years from now all the LC9/Nano/BodyGuard/DB9/TCP/PF-Chang's/PM9/PPS/Shield shooters are going to be on the line next to a Glock 26 shooter and realize that a better trigger, better sights, more reliability, and in some cases better and more concealable H/W dimensions are worth the extra .25" difference in width... which also gives a better grip and contributes to better accuracy.

Access to the wide world of Glock mags, holsters, accessories, and repair parts is just a perk.

(and then a Glock 19 shooter will show up and they'll realize that G19 is truly the way to go)

Quote:
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But there are more quality gun brands available now. Maybe not on par with glock, but close. A decade or so ago, there was nothing that compared overall.
I know I got a little sidetracked a while back with Steyr, but since you mention it, I will say that the one true runner up to Glock is the FNS-9.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:24   #74
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Perhaps you might consider quitting before you get any further behind?
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:42   #75
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Same boring reliability as with gen 2 and gen 3 guns. Only place they've fallen short is managing the horde of Internet commandos, posting homespun tales of pandemic glock failure from grandma's basement. For real world use, still tops by far. I can remember when the average advise noobs got on GT was accurate and insightful. Now it's worse than a local gun shop.

Last edited by Ryobi; 05-09-2013 at 10:45..
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:57   #76
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Same boring reliability as with gen 2 and gen 3 guns. Only place they've fallen short is managing the horde of Internet commandos, posting homespun tales of pandemic glock failure from grandma's basement. For real world use, still tops by far. I can remember when the average advise noobs got on GT was accurate and insightful. Now it's worse than a local gun shop.
Right..... It's all just a huge internet conspiracy aimed at Glock. NOOBS? I've been shooting for 35yrs. Am I still a Noob? None of my other pistols exhibit the ejection issues my Glock does. Not my Ruger; not my CZs; not my Steyr. You Kool-Aid drinkers are really sad. I'd hate to be that blind to any product.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:05   #77
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Pause the game. Pizza rolls are ready. Sorry about your ejection issues. I'm not blind to any product. Just in my office alone, we have right at 100 glocks issued. All gen 3 and gen 4. Zero ejection issues. I believe they're out there. But they're isolated, not pandemic, otherwise my or some of the many agencies/offices I interact with would have had some in the hands of their shooters. I believe they're real, and rare. My personal belief is that most reported problems are a) shooter caused, or b) caused by the user/reporter having a fundamental lack of understanding of how a combat handgun can and should function. Of course, our standard for brass is that it has to leave the gun in time for the next round to load, 100 percent of the time. Getting all misty about getting touched by brass or doing analyzing where it goes just isn't something we've ever gotten into, be it from a glock or from an M4.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:24   #78
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My glock gen 4 has never failed. Then again I have been carrying my XDs single stack 45 more often as of late. Looking to pick up a 9c but just to play with because I like the ergo and my dad loves his full size 9.

I never really understand the fandom that brands carry.


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Old 05-09-2013, 11:32   #79
KalashniKEV
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Of course, our standard for brass is that it has to leave the gun in time for the next round to load, 100 percent of the time.
LOL... reminds me of the first time I heard of this "improper ejection."

My Glocks are all 100% over thousands of rounds.

Interesting! Where do they eject?

Ummm... out of the gun?

No like, where... if there was a clock?

Ummm... what?



Different ammo produces different ejection patterns, and if there truly is an issue, it's a $20 part that you could probably get fixed for fee if you wanted to send your gun in.

Meanwhile, I look forward to shooting one of the new M&Ps to see how effectively they have cloned Randy Lee's FCG and if they have solved their mechanical accuracy issue.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:33   #80
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
I'm pretty sure you understood exactly what I was talking about, but to clarify-

Two years from now all the LC9/Nano/BodyGuard/DB9/TCP/PF-Chang's/PM9/PPS/Shield shooters are going to be on the line next to a Glock 26 shooter and realize that a better trigger, better sights, more reliability, and in some cases better and more concealable H/W dimensions are worth the extra .25" difference in width... which also gives a better grip and contributes to better accuracy.

Access to the wide world of Glock mags, holsters, accessories, and repair parts is just a perk.

(and then a Glock 19 shooter will show up and they'll realize that G19 is truly the way to go)



I know I got a little sidetracked a while back with Steyr, but since you mention it, I will say that the one true runner up to Glock is the FNS-9.
How would you know, as it seems you have never shot anything other then Glock.
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