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Old 05-07-2013, 15:35   #21
CBennett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
And we all know how many "product improvements" that Glock had gone through too, huh?
Since they came on the scene..their Motto should be Glock always reactive never proactive....Ive been waiting for a Glock with decent grips for ages lol...
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Old 05-07-2013, 15:35   #22
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Owned 2 glock's over the years . g 17 & g21. Now I have a mp40 c.
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Old 05-07-2013, 15:40   #23
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Originally Posted by wjv View Post
- Single stack

- Pocket guns

- Pistol caliber carbines

Why would a company ignore such a huge segment of their market?
Because it's not.

To Glock, it's a niche market already filled w/ several hungry competitors.

When you supply whole Armies/Branches/Agencies...

...everything else is just sweepings.




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Old 05-07-2013, 15:44   #24
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
...and turned out another polymer framed pistol that is inferior to Glock?

He did that before too- and we all know what a great success those freaky Steyr pistols were.

Dude, you obviously don't own a Steyr. The build quality of my S9A1 makes a Glock blush with embarrassment. The ergonomics are as close to perfect as I have seen too. Steyr's marketing is weak but the gun is awesome. If you think they are "inferior" to Glock just because they don't sell as many guns your logic is seriously flawed. Mr. Bubits could have taken Glock to the next level and kept the competitors at bay but it was not to be. I love my Steyr and when Caracal UAE gets the manufacturing kinks worked out I will own a Caracal C as well.
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Old 05-07-2013, 16:04   #25
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I just wish S&W would do the same Mil/LE pricing as glock. It's great be able to pick up any glock in the line up on the blue label program. I have only seen the M&P full size and compacts on the Mil pricing list through S&W. I would be very interested in picking up a shield and pro series, but can't justify the crazy high prices when blue label glocks are reasonable and easy to find.
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Old 05-07-2013, 16:24   #26
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IMO Glock's biggest accomplishment (as far as production goes) is their QC. They got that thing down and make their name for it. Steyr and Caracal will have hard time meeting that. I do have a Steyr M40A1 and if you have one, you can tell someone had "improve my Glock" in mind when designing that pistol.

As to OP, I like M&P alright. But it's trigger sucks, even more so than Glock. Feel great in my hand though.
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Old 05-07-2013, 16:46   #27
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The Glocks I used to own were sold and replaced with M&Ps. I much prefer it over a Glock. The stock trigger out of the box does suck but smooths out with use. Even with a crappy new gun trigger I had no problems being accurate with them.

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Old 05-07-2013, 16:54   #28
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I doubt Glock is especially worried, especially considering their backorder status. Likewise S&W seems to have some models that need a waiting period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
I wonder if Glock and Smith, etc. actually make a ton of money from these department purchases or if its purpose is just for locking in marketing collateral.

They seem to sell them to the departments for peanuts so, just talking out my hole, I would imagine they would each like to get their product in as many departments as possible so they can say "carried by 65% of the nations officers."

I expect they know that that kind of marketing clout will directly influence civilian sales and locations where the officers have to purchase their own firearm.

Anyway, I like the M&P a lot. I have the 45c and 9c. Great pistols.

I'm also glad Smith & Wesson is giving them some solid competition. It's good for everyone when the manufacturers are more motivated.

I understand what you are saying, but consider that some of the stuff for a sale of 2600 pistols really isn't different than the sale of one or ten. "Hi I want to order a M&P. We have an account and I have a purchase order here." "Hi I want to order 2600 M&PS under our account. Here is the purchase order." Likewise handling a few guns with problems might be a touch easier when the customer bought a couple hundred extra. "Yes I have heard of a couple with that issue. When you get half a dozen, let me know and I will send you a label. Ship 'em to us and we will fix or replace them." That guy just handled the customer service for fixing six guns in less time than it takes another guy to handle one with an irate customer. (I realize I am simplifying some of this, but I am guessing you get the idea.) My guess is that even with guns personnel costs are at least as much as the materials for the guns themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightstalker865 View Post
I just wish S&W would do the same Mil/LE pricing as glock. It's great be able to pick up any glock in the line up on the blue label program. I have only seen the M&P full size and compacts on the Mil pricing list through S&W. I would be very interested in picking up a shield and pro series, but can't justify the crazy high prices when blue label glocks are reasonable and easy to find.
S&W had a fairly aggressive program for more than a few of their guns not that long ago. If I remember the law enforcement price for the Shield is very competetive compared to the $ 398 Glock 26.
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Last edited by Bruce M; 05-07-2013 at 16:58..
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Old 05-07-2013, 16:54   #29
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Originally Posted by 03scgt View Post
When they decide to make a stock trigger that doesn't feel like its going to snap in half or have a pull similar to the feel of a bag of broken potato chips I'll buy another.they are pretty comfortable in the hand
agreed....and when glock decides to fix their damn extractors and the BTF issue, ill buy one of those too
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Old 05-07-2013, 17:02   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
I wonder if Glock and Smith, etc. actually make a ton of money from these department purchases or if its purpose is just for locking in marketing collateral.

They seem to sell them to the departments for peanuts so, just talking out my hole, I would imagine they would each like to get their product in as many departments as possible so they can say "carried by 65% of the nations officers."

I expect they know that that kind of marketing clout will directly influence civilian sales and locations where the officers have to purchase their own firearm.

Anyway, I like the M&P a lot. I have the 45c and 9c. Great pistols.

I'm also glad Smith & Wesson is giving them some solid competition. It's good for everyone when the manufacturers are more motivated.
A little of Column A and a little of Column B, I'd reckon. If they're moving that volume of product and not making a profit on it, they're idiots. That said, they probably run LE sales on reduced margin to 1, get the sale, and 2, get the market share for advertising. E.G., if they sell civilian GLOCKs as 25% margin, they might move LE GLOCKs at 10-15% margin.
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Old 05-07-2013, 17:04   #31
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Unless you own stock in the company. Who cares? Buy what you like. Shoot it. Enjoy it.
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Old 05-07-2013, 17:19   #32
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
...and turned out another polymer framed pistol that is inferior to Glock?

He did that before too- and we all know what a great success those freaky Steyr pistols were.

The Steyr line is outstanding, in my opinion.
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Old 05-07-2013, 17:20   #33
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I sold my first FS 9mm M&P last year due to horrible accuracy (8-10" groups at 15 yards) even after 2 trips back to S&W with one trip back with a new barrel. Didn't matter what weight, pressure or brand of ammo, the accuracy sucked. I even did the Apex sear, polished the striker block myself and wasted 500+ rounds on it since people where claiming it was me getting used to the trigger even though every other gun I've owned shot better.

I was hoping they would improve them at some point and once I heard about the new triggers and barrels being put in the M&Ps I waited until I found one because other than the FS 9mm accuracy, everything on the M&P series is perfect. Well I found one recently with the Shield like trigger and different barrel twist so I took a chance. First outing had me shooting sub 2.5" groups right off the bat with any ammo weight. Now I'm happy.

General Firearms Forum


You can see the new stock sear is VERY close to the Apex hard sear. Below is the Apex sear on the left and my new stock sear on the right.
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Last edited by Nakanokalronin; 05-07-2013 at 17:29..
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Old 05-07-2013, 17:20   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hafler View Post
I've been noticing quite a few smaller PD's in my area switching from Glocks. Looks like they lost another pretty good size account in Texas.

http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/texas...)&utm_content=
Good to here...

M&Ps are great pistols.
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Last edited by bac1023; 05-07-2013 at 17:21..
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Old 05-07-2013, 17:27   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
This.

Supposedly this has been fixed with the newer models. My disappointing journey into the world of M&P left a bad taste in my mouth though- crap triggers, and after you rebuild the whole FCG with aftermarket Apex parts the barrel itself is incapable of producing acceptable accuracy.

People seem to have limitless patience for these guns though, even among some serious folks, which amazes me.

I put them right next to XD. Not ready for Prime Time.
You might say the same thing for late model gen 3 and certain gen 4 model Glocks. I read endless post in GG about brass to the face, extrator replacements, RSA replacements and such. To say the M&P is not ready for primetime is a statement from someone who doesn't own and has probably never shot one. You are also more then likely a rabid Glock fan boy.
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Old 05-07-2013, 17:35   #36
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Below are the Glocks I have carried on duty for my first 17 years. On top what I've been carrying the past 3 years. Trigger is smooth, nice.

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Old 05-07-2013, 19:54   #37
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Originally Posted by oldnoob View Post
IMO Glock's biggest accomplishment (as far as production goes) is their QC. They got that thing down and make their name for it.
you mean the Glock gen4 RSA recalls, Brass to Face issues , and all of GG blaming them on weak 115g ammo or limpwristing? that QC?
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Old 05-07-2013, 20:15   #38
HKLovingIT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakanokalronin View Post
I sold my first FS 9mm M&P last year due to horrible accuracy (8-10" groups at 15 yards) even after 2 trips back to S&W with one trip back with a new barrel. Didn't matter what weight, pressure or brand of ammo, the accuracy sucked. I even did the Apex sear, polished the striker block myself and wasted 500+ rounds on it since people where claiming it was me getting used to the trigger even though every other gun I've owned shot better.

I was hoping they would improve them at some point and once I heard about the new triggers and barrels being put in the M&Ps I waited until I found one because other than the FS 9mm accuracy, everything on the M&P series is perfect. Well I found one recently with the Shield like trigger and different barrel twist so I took a chance. First outing had me shooting sub 2.5" groups right off the bat with any ammo weight. Now I'm happy.

General Firearms Forum


You can see the new stock sear is VERY close to the Apex hard sear. Below is the Apex sear on the left and my new stock sear on the right.
General Firearms Forum
General Firearms Forum
General Firearms Forum
General Firearms Forum


That is very interesting. So there is a definite reset point on this product improved version?
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Old 05-07-2013, 21:10   #39
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My dept recently made the switch to the M&P40. I know 2 other depots that also made the switch. I love my Glocks but I also love the M&P. S&W fixed the vague trigger reset on all M&PS made after October 2012 so there is no more trigger reset complaints from me.

Ergos. Great adjustable back strap. Nice grip angle. Dovetail steel sights front and rear. Nice slide serrations. Steel guide rod. No dry fire field strip. American made! S&W hit a home run with this one.

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Old 05-07-2013, 21:24   #40
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I think it was that stupid ass gen4 that turned alot of people away from glocks!
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