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Old 05-07-2013, 10:30   #101
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Originally Posted by HarlDane View Post
You can believe whatever you want, but holding businesses to different sets of rules distorts things more than a single set of regulations.
Can you say taxation without representation? As in a state reaching into another state to collect taxes on businesses without having a say in the taxing state. You have more faith in the .gov than I do.


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And you're apparently okay with that considering you're arguing for more of the same.
If you say so. I'm OK with and arguing for keeping more of my money.

All of this is coming from someone who admitted that he doesn't buy much online, and if he does he has to pay taxes because Amazon is in his state. Boohoo.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:32   #102
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Oh yeah, with over 44,000 different tax jurisdictions in the United States - I'm *AMPED* to watch this pass. Can we say 'mass non-compliance' boys and girls?

There is just no way to handle this - you'll have 44,000 different tax jurisdictions auditing your tax collections as a business - you get one wrong, you could lose your business in penalties, fees, and legal quicksand. And they are constantly changing - with all the stadiums cities are building for overpaid professional sports teams, bribing large businesses to live in their muni tax-free, and the like; tax percentages change all the time, and for what items they can be charged on, when they can be charged.

What will happen when you purchase from someone else's jurisdiction, but they really need the money? Do they get to tax your taxes? What about all the jurisdictions the item passes through to get to you - do they get a cut too, or can they tax your tax on the original tax? Interstate commerce will just stop, no one can buy or sell anything to anyone as they'd all be breaking someone's law somewhere.

Sounds like an 'end of the world' scenario to me.

Last edited by raydobbs; 05-07-2013 at 11:33.. Reason: Grammar editing
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:48   #103
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This was going to happen and it did take them a long time. Will not be a problem for me because my state has no sales tax.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:10   #104
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we don't need any new taxes! we need to cut waste in government before we need more taxes! And get perfectly healthy welfare recipients off their butts and start working
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:53   #105
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I would be more in favor of this tax if they were more careful about where our tax money goes. Welfare should be regulated much better for example.
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Old 05-07-2013, 13:10   #106
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I take it hollowhead and harldane are democrats. Am I right? I'm thinking I am. Y'all sure are free with my money. Well you may not have it. I earned it.
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Old 05-07-2013, 13:20   #107
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Not exactly. A brick and mortar store generally sells within one set of tax laws. They're wanting to make online retailers sell within 50+ sets of tax laws, which can get extremely difficult to handle and very expensive. Now, if they made those 50+ different sets of tax laws all the same, so it boils down to just one set of tax laws for online retailers, then it's the same thing as a regular brick and mortar store. But until they do it, it's vastly different than holding online retailers to the same rules as a brick and mortar store.

Walmart wants it done because they think it will drive people to their stores, Amazon wants it done because they're pretty much already doing it, and it won't be a huge hassle to include the other states they don't have warehouses in. That, and they have money out the butt, they can afford to do it.

But trying to tell a medium sized online shop that they have to comply with all fifty states different tax laws is just a nightmare that I don't even want to think about how complicated it could get.
How about this? Have the feds collect it and distribute it evenly, and FAIRLY among the state, each according to their need. Sound fair?

TK-421, I'm not being snippy with you, it's more directed to the tax advocates.
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Old 05-07-2013, 13:35   #108
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I take it hollowhead and harldane are democrats. Am I right? I'm thinking I am. Y'all sure are free with my money. Well you may not have it. I earned it.
Last I checked it was liberals who want to use government regulations to pick winners and losers in the marketplace.

As for me wanting the money in your pocket, I've stated I'm all for the reduction or elimination of sales taxes.
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Old 05-07-2013, 13:52   #109
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Oh yeah, with over 44,000 different tax jurisdictions in the United States - I'm *AMPED* to watch this pass. Can we say 'mass non-compliance' boys and girls?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_rebellion
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Old 05-07-2013, 14:07   #110
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So just because the government distorts the market in other ways by playing favorites means it's okay, is that your position?
It is a way of equalizing already unfair advantages accrued from government intervention in trade. In your model, small business takes it in the rear coming and going.
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Old 05-07-2013, 15:07   #111
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Really? Here we have to report any internet purchases that were not taxed at the end of the year on our income tax, so we are taxed on it regardless. What state do you live in that doesn't require this?
I live where I live. And we both know that maybe .01% of people actually keep track of sales tax. I doubt you're one of them.
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Old 05-07-2013, 15:58   #112
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I live where I live. And we both know that maybe .01% of people actually keep track of sales tax. I doubt you're one of them.
I guess you'll have to be a little more creative in your tax evasion if this passes.

It would be nice if more opponents of the bill would just be honest and admit that they oppose it because it will make it harder to cheat on their taxes.
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Old 05-07-2013, 16:06   #113
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I guess you'll have to be a little more creative in your tax evasion if this passes.

It would be nice if more opponents of the bill would just be honest and admit that they oppose it because it will make it harder to cheat on their taxes.
You're just bitter because you have to pay taxes on your internet purchases. BooHoo.

Our founding fathers were tax evaders, bootleggers and didn't trust the .gov.
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Old 05-07-2013, 16:08   #114
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How about this? Have the feds collect it and distribute it evenly, and FAIRLY among the state, each according to their need. Sound fair?

TK-421, I'm not being snippy with you, it's more directed to the tax advocates.
Personally I believe that if something like this is going to be done, then we need to go deeply in depth into tax codes and try to hammer out one singular tax code for every county/city/state/whatever, to make it as easy as possible to regulate, enforce, and follow. Unfortunately, that's just not realistically possible.
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Old 05-07-2013, 16:29   #115
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With Amazon being in my state, I pay sales tax immediately anyway on most of my purchases.

If anything, I think the state that the business is in should get the sales tax since they are the ones supporting the business with roads, fire service, police etc.
This will not happen because it makes sense and is to easy for the internet business to manage.
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Old 05-07-2013, 16:54   #116
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I take it hollowhead and harldane are democrats. Am I right? I'm thinking I am. Y'all sure are free with my money. Well you may not have it. I earned it.
Hardly. Giving preference to one business and not another is affirmative action, period. HH
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Old 05-07-2013, 18:32   #117
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Don't many b&m stores have an internet presence? So they have a vested interest in seeing this die a quiet death. BTW, the B&M stores have, and continue to have a right to do business online as well and expand their market as well. This would stifle trade.
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Old 05-07-2013, 19:33   #118
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Hardly. Giving preference to one business and not another is affirmative action, period. HH
But you are only equalizing the playing field in one aspect, one that large well-funded businesses already deal with anyway and penalizing small businesses that aren't large enough on an individual basis to qualify for TIFs and other incentive programs govt. uses to encourage them to expand their operations. Equality actually counts as a penalty to small businesses with limited resources.

I should note that you're also penalizing those with lower incomes and those who live in rural areas. If I lived in one of the rural, low-income counties in my state, I'd have to drive hours to get to a city large enough to have retail outlets other than Wal-Mart, then pay gas and tax to get items that Wal-Mart didn't stock. Instead, you're just raising the costs of purchasing items that aren't available locally and are not affecting any brick-and-mortar businesses anyway.
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Old 05-07-2013, 19:54   #119
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I live where I live. And we both know that maybe .01% of people actually keep track of sales tax. I doubt you're one of them.
Just because no one paid it doesn't mean it's now been raised. Did taxes get raised because Lauren Hill was forced to pay them?

And I'm confident that for the last 7 years, I have paid all sales taxes on internet purchases. Mostly because they are collected when I order from Amazon.
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Old 05-07-2013, 21:02   #120
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I guess you'll have to be a little more creative in your tax evasion if this passes.

It would be nice if more opponents of the bill would just be honest and admit that they oppose it because it will make it harder to cheat on their taxes.
I'm against it because it's a stupid business-killing proposition. More regulation sucks. If they're really thinking local businesses need help, lower local sales taxes.

Many states levy use taxes--enforce those if the desire is to make it equal. Heck, some states even have use tax tables to make it easier.

Forcing mom and pop online businesses to know the tax laws in thousands of jurisdictions (or pay someone else to figure it out) is business-killing...and that's a stupid thing to do.

Stupid...so it'll probably pass.

And honestly, really--how much tax do you think we should pay?
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Old 05-07-2013, 21:05   #121
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Just because you're evading taxes (assuming you live in an area with sales tax, if you don't this law won't affect you) now doesn't mean they don't exist.
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Completely separate issue. The issue here is holding online retailers to the same rules as B&M retailers.
At least here in MN, the sales tax was part of the "Minnesota Miracle." Sales taxes were collected to be redistributed in Local Government Aid to help some cities pay for essential services that these B&M stores require. A business outside of the state does not require services from the city, county or state.

This is nothing but a tariff being levied by one state against another.

ARS
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Old 05-07-2013, 21:37   #122
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Heck, I'm sure it will need to pass constitutional muster.

Most folks on here still don't realize that about 97% of us are net consumers of government benefits. Especially those with children in public schools.
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Old 05-07-2013, 22:02   #123
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Do most of you understand that YOU were already required to pay taxes on your internet ordered items?

"use tax" on your state income tax return

Anybody that is anticipating paying more in taxes due to this, was simply cheating and lying about their taxes previously.

I want lower taxes too, but do it across the board, not based on who is most comfortable cheating the system.

(not going to argue the ethics of cheating taxes)

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Old 05-07-2013, 22:21   #124
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Do most of you understand that YOU were already required to pay taxes on your internet ordered items?

"use tax" on your state income tax return

Anybody that is anticipating paying more in taxes due to this, was simply cheating and lying about their taxes previously.

I want lower taxes too, but do it across the board, not based on who is most comfortable cheating the system.

(not going to argue the ethics of cheating taxes)
Yes, but that's incumbent on ME, the consumer and I only would have to pay use taxes to the state in which I live, not nearly ten thousand different jurisdictions. I also will order food for take out here and avoid paying sales tax while I still sit down and eat inside the restaurant.
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Old 05-07-2013, 22:26   #125
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Yes, but that's incumbent on ME, the consumer and I only would have to pay use taxes to the state in which I live, not nearly ten thousand different jurisdictions. I also will order food for take out here and avoid paying sales tax while I still sit down and eat inside the restaurant.
I always thought it was BS that stores also have to act as free labor for the tax collectors, and I do agree that the logistics of implementing this will be as murky as obamacare.

But I keep hearing people argue that they are going to be paying new taxes, or more taxes. What they are really saying is,
"It's going to get harder for me to cheat on my taxes"
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