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Old 05-30-2013, 15:31   #1
PghJim
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Underwood's other 357 Sig JHP

I case you have not be playing close attention, Underwood has come out with another 357 Sig JHP using Sierra 125gr. bullet. Advertised at 1,475fps. I got 1,504fps out of a stock 4" barrel; 1,559fps for a 4.5" LWD barrel and over 1,620fps out of my 5" XD.

Out of my 4.5" carry gun that gives me 674fpe, and 728fpe out of the XD. I suscribe to the fast with high energy dump theory for fight interuption so these new bullets appeal to me. The recoil is similar to a 155gr 40.

Last I looked there was some left if you are interested.

I should also mentioned they were very accurate. Less than 2" at 25 yards off of sandbags. Others could possibly shrink that group.

Last edited by PghJim; 05-30-2013 at 15:34..
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Old 05-30-2013, 15:47   #2
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PghJim- Thanks for that info. I have 500 rounds arriving on Friday. I will be waiting for the UPS guy
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Old 05-30-2013, 15:55   #3
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PghJim's mention of it in another thread got me too looking into it.......I have 100rds coming by Monday!

Glad Mr. Underwood listened to the suggestions of some customers. I remember asking him about it last year some time and he wanted to know why I thought a Sierra would be preferable. I told him that the 357Sig was supposed to mimic the vaunted .357 Magnum 125gr SJHP ballistically and a Gold Dot did not do that.

Now if he'll consider doing a run of 155gr .40 JHP's (again, NOT Gold Dots) cranked up to 1200-1250fps like the old Border Patrol loads I'd be a happy camper.
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Old 05-30-2013, 16:00   #4
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Hope TNoutdoors9 gets a box and shoots some denim wrapped jello with them. I am interested in the depth of penetration.
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Old 05-30-2013, 17:19   #5
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Hey Jim I saw your review posted on the underwood website. When I saw it I was like " hey I know that guy" Then I was like " well not really". Lol

Kidding aside I have been debating on ordering some of these but I struggle with paying 80$ for 100rds. I kinda want to see how they do on some tests before order some. I envision they would end up like a frangible round at that speed, but if it sheds everything off quickly I suppose that slug could get some decent penetration. IDK

Edit just noticed underwood is loading these sierras in their 135gr 10mm as well.
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Old 05-30-2013, 18:10   #6
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Kidding aside I have been debating on ordering some of these but I struggle with paying 80$ for 100rds. I kinda want to see how they do on some tests before order some. I envision they would end up like a frangible round at that speed, but if it sheds everything off quickly I suppose that slug could get some decent penetration. IDK

Edit just noticed underwood is loading these sierras in their 135gr 10mm as well.
I shot it through 4 layers of denim into wet pack. The bullet had a devestating effect on jug 1 and penetrated 12.5 inches. It fragmented quite a bit, which is what I wanted, and the remaining core was 73gr with a diameter of 0.51.

I hope someone tests it in gel.

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Old 05-30-2013, 18:19   #7
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Hey Jim I saw your review posted on the underwood website. When I saw it I was like " hey I know that guy" Then I was like " well not really". Lol
Following your posts, I think we do have a lot in common. Also, people reading CC probably know more about me than 90% of the people in my life.
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Old 05-30-2013, 18:28   #8
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Now if he'll consider doing a run of 155gr .40 JHP's (again, NOT Gold Dots) cranked up to 1200-1250fps like the old Border Patrol loads I'd be a happy camper.
Look at the Doubletap 150 gr Nosler HP load for .40. Out of my glock 24 6" barrel it went at just over 1400 FPS average. Thats 650 footpounds of energy.
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Old 05-30-2013, 18:49   #9
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...I hope someone tests in in gel.

I agree, however knowing how Sierra cup & core JHP's have functioned on the Street I'd have no worry carrying this. The old Corbon .357 Mag. loaded with this bullet did about 11" to 12" in denim/gel tests, however the damage was stellar.
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Old 05-30-2013, 20:09   #10
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I shot it through 4 layers of denim into wet pack. The bullet had a devestating effect on jug 1 and penetrated 12.5 inches. It fragmented quite a bit, which is what I wanted, and the remaining core was 73gr with a diameter of 0.51.

I hope someone tests it in gel.
Sounds like a nasty round. Thanks for the info. I tend to like really fast loads and that's why I've gotten into 357 and recently 10mm. Do you run stock springs on your glocks in 357 with the underwood stuff? I run a stock gen4 g33 for Edc and a stock gen4 32. So far mine have run the underwood stuff just fine but I've only got maybe 50 rds through each of the older 357 runs they had. So I haven't done enough yet for me to trust them for Edc. My g26 wouldn't run underwood 124+p+ for nothing so I'm trying to be patient and hopeful that I can get my others to like this stuff.

I still seem to have a fondness for bullets that stay together mostly. Not that the devistation from the unbonded versions couldnt potentially be greater.

That's funny about caliber corner be "family" essentially. I haven't been around here very long, but caliber corner is usually where I end up. I still have much to learn
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Old 05-30-2013, 20:37   #11
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I have stock springs in my G32's. It is probably a little harder on the gun but it gives less felt recoil. I know it does not make a lot of sense, but if I use heavier springs, I am holding against the spring when it recoils. However, if you are really battering the gun, you have to go up in recoil spring. When you find the ejected round 30 feet from the gun, you probably should up the springs. I have shot thousands of rounds and not noticed any wear.

Last edited by PghJim; 05-30-2013 at 20:38..
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:33   #12
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I have stock springs in my G32's. It is probably a little harder on the gun but it gives less felt recoil. I know it does not make a lot of sense, but if I use heavier springs, I am holding against the spring when it recoils. However, if you are really battering the gun, you have to go up in recoil spring. When you find the ejected round 30 feet from the gun, you probably should up the springs. I have shot thousands of rounds and not noticed any wear.
Yea if I recall correctly New Mexico SP switched from the G31 to the S&W M&P because the amount of ammo they fired for training was tearing up the guns they had. That being said I would venture to guess they will have the same issues with the S&W weapons at some point.

I realize the hot ammo will wear guns faster. I pay special attention to all my firearms and clean and inspect them often and knowing Glock will take care of me if I have issues is all I need. And as you stated above the spring is really the only thing to concern with.
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Old 05-31-2013, 14:35   #13
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Yea if I recall correctly New Mexico SP switched from the G31 to the S&W M&P because the amount of ammo they fired for training was tearing up the guns they had...

FWIW, S&W stopped making the M&P in .357 SIG citing few sales.
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Old 05-31-2013, 14:59   #14
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FWIW, S&W stopped making the M&P in .357 SIG citing few sales.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Strange move for them unless they made it before they were discontinued.
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Old 05-31-2013, 15:53   #15
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I thought it was discontinued for public sale but could be ordered from Smith by LE. I could be wrong. Someone will let me know if I am.
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Old 05-31-2013, 16:13   #16
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I thought it was discontinued for public sale but could be ordered from Smith by LE. I could be wrong. Someone will let me know if I am.
I do not like M&P handguns, but a month ago I was in the biggest gun shop in Western PA and the manager of sales told me that he did not have any in stock, but could get one for me. After all, beside slde markings, if that, the only difference would be the barrel. I would bet if they had discontinued them, they could be back on the shelves in a couple of weeks if that decision was made. In any event it is easy to get after market 357 Sig barrels for M&P.
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Old 05-31-2013, 18:03   #17
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The M&P .357sig versions are still listed on the S&W website. Not under the Military or LE tabs but under its own tab. So my guess is they still make runs of them.

Would be nice if they made a .357sig Shield with no safeties, then I would buy one. Though I did kick around the idea of picking up a full size M&P but hesitant since I have so much money into Glocks and mags.

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Old 05-31-2013, 18:47   #18
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My brother in law has a full size mp40 and its solid but the trigger is pretty gritty. I do like the ergos of the mp line though. I agree that until I see a 357sig shield I probably won't buy a smith, but I still don't think it would replace my g33.
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Old 05-31-2013, 19:14   #19
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Well I got a 31, 32 and 33 so I figure a .357sig Shield would compliment them nice. Since the Shield is slightly smaller and a good bit thinner than the 33.

The Apex triggers are supposed to be the shiznit for the M&P. Though I am not fond of modding trigger on a carry gun.
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Old 05-31-2013, 19:35   #20
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One East Coast State Police dept. had huge problems with "sear bounce" on the .357 M&P's. I think it was one of the Carolinas. I always liked the ergos of the M&P but their barrels were inaccurate and the design originally had far too many "birthing" pains. Many point to Apex parts as a solution but that was as bad as buying a 1911 and then paying someone even more money to make it work. S&W missed the boat by not doing far more in house R&D before releasing them, IMO. They had winner in theory, but it was never realized due to piss poor implementation.
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Old 05-31-2013, 20:34   #21
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If you could combine the grip ergonomics of the M&P with the rest of a Glock I'd buy one in a heartbeat!

BTW, I emailed Kevin Underwood about duplicating the Border Patrol load in .40 S&W. Haven't heard back yet though.......
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Old 05-31-2013, 21:56   #22
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One East Coast State Police dept. had huge problems with "sear bounce" on the .357 M&P's. I think it was one of the Carolinas. I always liked the ergos of the M&P but their barrels were inaccurate and the design originally had far too many "birthing" pains. Many point to Apex parts as a solution but that was as bad as buying a 1911 and then paying someone even more money to make it work. S&W missed the boat by not doing far more in house R&D before releasing them, IMO. They had winner in theory, but it was never realized due to piss poor implementation.

I've been carrying an M&P on duty for 5 years now. First a .40 S&W, now a .357 Sig. I've been a M&P armorer for just as long.

The sear bounce issue was not isolated just to the .357 M&P's. It was wide spread, and was due to a sear plunger & spring that were too small. They couldn't keep up with the sear, and that is what caused a "dead trigger". Smith & Wesson rectified the problem by revising the sear housing block with a larger plunger/spring. That problem has now pretty much been resolved.

Inaccurate barrels were known to occur with the 9mm M&P's. My .40 and .357 are perfectly fine in the accuracy department. S&W has also improved the 9mm barrels to the point where that issue has also pretty much been resolved.

The only other issues I've heard of concerning the M&P line was magazines dropping out in the very first pistols (long since resolved), gritty triggers with minimal feedback on the reset (S&W continues to improve the triggers, to a degree some people actually now call them "good"), and slide stop levers getting sheared off. That last issue I have only read about on the internet. I have no real world experience to draw from.

Every new product has teething pains. Doesn't matter if it's a firearm or an automobile. The key is in how quickly and seriously the manufacturer addresses those problems. I can say without reservation that Smith & Wesson has been excellent in upgrading and updating their M&P pistols. They've done everything short of issuing recalls, which very few gun manufacturers ever do.

One of the main benefits of the M&P is that it was designed originally for the .40 S&W cartridge. A lot of other pistols get designed for 9mm, and then later on get produced in the higher pressure chamberings (i.e., .40 S&W and .357 Sig). This often times creates problems with those pistols. Being designed around the higher pressures of .40 S&W ammunition enables the M&P to be a very durable pistol. A person would be doing a disservice to themselves by overlooking the line. Keep in mind, it has only been around for 6 or so years, but has had a huge impact already.


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Old 05-31-2013, 23:45   #23
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The M&P is a serviceable firearm with the current version.

My former agency was one of the first to go to the M&P, and we did so in 40 S&W. We had numerous issues, dropping mags, and floating frame pins that would lock the firearm in the holster.

Also, I had failures to fire, without even a small dent on the primer. Issues were so bad, during training, the majority of officers had some malfunction.

Smith later replaced the pistols, and problems disappeared with the new ones.

Left a bad taste in my mouth for a while.

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Old 06-02-2013, 13:11   #24
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Would be nice if they made a .357sig Shield with no safeties, then I would buy one.
I'd be the first in line to buy one, with or without safety. I think a .357sig Shield would make a perfect combination of power and size for CCW purposes.
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Old 06-02-2013, 16:46   #25
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... I think a .357sig Shield would make a perfect combination of power and size for CCW purposes.

Based upon what I've seen the vast majority regret buying one in .40 S&W due to recoil. In .357 SIG it would be a handful and with little market share.
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