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Old 05-09-2013, 00:07   #151
fredj338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Exactly, hence I want as much on my side as I can get.

Some people have pointed out that pinpoint accuracy is not possible in a fluid situation and I agree, but the same issues make me leery about having the time to compensate with volume. If I only have time for a couple of shots, I am going to go with "more power" rather than less.
This is so wise it is beyond understanding for the spray & pray crowd.
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Old 05-09-2013, 00:09   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Ever shot a CZ 83? Great ergonomics. Very intuitive pointer.
For the same size you can have several diff 9mm, better round less recoil.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:59   #153
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Here's a story of some bad guys who didn't get the memo that a .380 is useless:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...ld-be-robbers/

It's the same trend we see in the hunting world, where cartridges that used to be seen as quite adequate are now 'underpowered', and we have people shooting whitetail deer with a .300 Win. Mag.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:14   #154
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
For the same size you can have several diff 9mm, better round less recoil.
Why is the 9mm a better round? Why would a 9mm have less recoil?
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:13   #155
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9mm=9x19
9mm Makarov=9x18
.380=9x17
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:18   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.B.Cooper View Post
9mm=9x19
9mm Makarov=9x18
.380=9x17
True. It's amazing how hung up people get over minuscule differences.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:19   #157
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Why would a 9mm have less recoil?
The .380s are usually blowback operated.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:55   #158
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
The .380s are usually blowback operated.
There are a number of good locked breech .380s, including the Sig p238. Felt recoil is mild with standard power loads, but noticeably stronger with +P like the BB 100 grainers. Because the gun is so small, it's hard to compare it to--for example--a G26, but I would say it's similar in recoil.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:17   #159
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Iwas present and watched as two .380 were bounced off the skull of a pig in a trap. I tried to explain that it was not a good idea with a .380. The shooter assured me he had confidence.

The shooter was using all the posts he had seen about the effectiveness of the .380 from the Internet. Guess what....Do you have any idea of the thickness of a 150# pigs skull.

Let me enlighten you

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In the video posted above the good guy scared the BGs off which is a little different.

I understand why you would carry a .380 as back up. HERE is the question to answer........if you were going to a gun fight, would a .380 be your choice?

BTW......don't even ever think of hunting 150# pig with a .380. I think a shot behind the ear might get to the brain with a .380, the .22 does a good job. The .22 does not have near the frontal area of the .355 (or what ever the .380 is)
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:45   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
Iwas present and watched as two .380 were bounced off the skull of a pig in a trap. I tried to explain that it was not a good idea with a .380. The shooter assured me he had confidence.

The shooter was using all the posts he had seen about the effectiveness of the .380 from the Internet. Guess what....Do you have any idea of the thickness of a 150# pigs skull.

Let me enlighten you

In the video posted above the good guy scared the BGs off which is a little different.

I understand why you would carry a .380 as back up. HERE is the question to answer........if you were going to a gun fight, would a .380 be your choice?

BTW......don't even ever think of hunting 150# pig with a .380. I think a shot behind the ear might get to the brain with a .380, the .22 does a good job. The .22 does not have near the frontal area of the .355 (or what ever the .380 is)
Well, I guess it's a good thing that I don't have to worry about shooting a 150# pig in the skull, while attending a dinner party with my .380 in my front pocket.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:01   #161
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Well, I guess it's a good thing that I don't have to worry about shooting a 150# pig in the skull, while attending a dinner party with my .380 in my front pocket.
Hey, never say never! What if, at the dinner party, one gets obnoxious and drunk and rowdy and grabbin all over you?!

You might wanna shoot her!
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:06   #162
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Hey, never say never! What if, at the dinner party, one gets obnoxious and drunk and rowdy and grabbin all over you?!

You might wanna shoot her!
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:09   #163
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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Some people have pointed out that pinpoint accuracy is not possible in a fluid situation and I agree, but the same issues make me leery about having the time to compensate with volume. If I only have time for a couple of shots, I am going to go with "more power" rather than less.
As Fred said (above) that is a very good point! I never thought of it that way before. Makes a lot of sense. I generally carry a 9mm but may start moving more to carrying my G30sf in .45. Especially if my range performance yesterday is any indication of my 9mm accuracy skills!!!
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:16   #164
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Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
Iwas present and watched as two .380 were bounced off the skull of a pig in a trap. I tried to explain that it was not a good idea with a .380. The shooter assured me he had confidence.

The shooter was using all the posts he had seen about the effectiveness of the .380 from the Internet.
I have never seen an internet post about the effectiveness of a .380 on pigs. I wouldn't hunt pigs with less than a .243, does that mean I need a .243 for self defense? I wouldn't want to shoot a pig with a 9mm either.

Quote:
Guess what....Do you have any idea of the thickness of a 150# pigs skull.

Let me enlighten you

Caliber Corner

In the video posted above the good guy scared the BGs off which is a little different.
Quote:
BGs do tend to run when shot at, without stopping to find out what caliber it is.

I understand why you would carry a .380 as back up. HERE is the question to answer........if you were going to a gun fight, would a .380 be your choice?
Of course not, if I knew I was going to a gunfight I'd bring my AR.

Quote:
BTW......don't even ever think of hunting 150# pig with a .380. I think a shot behind the ear might get to the brain with a .380, the .22 does a good job. The .22 does not have near the frontal area of the .355 (or what ever the .380 is)
Apples to oranges comparison.

For home defense, I use a big heavy bullet. For concealed carry, I use a lightweight gun I'm more likely to carry, with a spare mag. If 13 rounds of .380 won't help me, I've got big problems. I heard once the average self defense encounter is three shots, three feet, three seconds.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:17   #165
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I once thought I would never consider a .380 cartridge. But over the past few years, the technology advancements to the .380 have changed my thought process somewhat.

Some much, that I have a Colt Pocketlite currently on order.

With a quality brand firearm, and the proper ammunition, I believe, a go-anywhere, deep concealment .380 pistol is a plus.

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Old 05-09-2013, 10:25   #166
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I once thought I would never consider a .380 cartridge. But over the past few years, the technology advancements to the .380 have changed my thought process somewhat.

Some much, that I have a Colt Pocketlite currently on order.

With a quality brand firearm, and the proper ammunition, I believe, a go-anywhere, deep concealment .380 pistol is a plus.

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That is an awesome pistol, exactly what I carry. Reliable, accurate, and comfortable to shoot. If you like the 1911 platform, you'll love it. Do not confuse this with the old Colt Mustangs, which were not made nearly as well as the new one.

BTW, I tried the Ruger and Kel-Tec .380s, neither worked well. The new Mustang is like the high-end 1911 of the .380 world.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:14   #167
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Why is the 9mm a better round? Why would a 9mm have less recoil?
Most 380 are blowback designs, more recoil. Most 380 are small, lt.wt. w/ small grip, more recoil. The 380 maxed out on a mouse size gun is a 100gr bullet about 900fps, right at the expansion vel window for most bullet designs.
Most any 9mm from a micro size gun will break 1000fps w/ a heavier bullet, better performance.
For the guys missing the point of a 380 not penetrating the skull of a pig, it means it has limited terminal potential, man or beast. I don't know many that would knowingly go into harms way w/ barely adequate equip, be it a gunfight, parachute jump, mountain climb or whatever. Knowingly choosing marginal vs adequate vs good equip just seems to go against the point of carrying a gun in the first place, to survive a violent attack.
WHile we all know a long gun is better, it's not appropriate or even legal to tote around most places. So we choose handguns. Since all handguns are less than ideal, why further the problem choosing less than adequate? Most carrying such guns can't shoot them well past contact distance. Try running your fav mousegun @ the next IDPA match, get back to me. If you can't do it there, you certainly won't do it on the street.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:49   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.B.Cooper View Post
9mm=9x19
9mm Makarov=9x18
.380=9x17

Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
True. It's amazing how hung up people get over minuscule differences.
Approximate muzzle energy comparison:

9x19=450+ ft-lb
9x18=232 ft-lb
9x17=203 ft-lb

Even the Buffalo Bore .380 "+P" is less than 300 ft-lbs.

Minuscule differences...
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:52   #169
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I've got a Bersa .380 that is pretty golden.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:52   #170
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I have never seen an internet post about the effectiveness of a .380 on pigs. I wouldn't hunt pigs with less than a .243, does that mean I need a .243 for self defense? I wouldn't want to shoot a pig with a 9mm either.



.
well now we are getting somewhere. the 243 has 2000 ftlb of muzzle energy is ok to use on a 150# pig but all you need is 238 ftlb from a .380 for self defense on 150# bad guy?

I don't get it?
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:59   #171
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Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
well now we are getting somewhere. the 243 has 2000 ftlb of muzzle energy is ok to use on a 150# pig but all you need is 238 ftlb from a .380 for self defense on 150# bad guy?

I don't get it?
Yes. Check out your picture from above. The last I checked, a bad guy doesn't have a skull that thick.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:10   #172
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As long as we're talking about hogs

It didn't bounce off?
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:24   #173
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Originally Posted by Joshhtn View Post
Hog's Head Ballistics - Speer Gold Dot 90gr .380 ACP - YouTube

As long as we're talking about hogs

It didn't bounce off?
So this means you feel adequate armed with a .380?
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:29   #174
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So this means you feel adequate armed with a .380?
Yes. It beats the hell out of my pocket knife.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:36   #175
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True. It's amazing how hung up people get over minuscule differences.
So along the same thought lines:
22mag & 223, same thing right, close enough right?
Or how about 30 carbine, 30-30 & 30-06, same same right?
It's obviously a carry what you want, but really, the 380 is marginal at best, really, not adequate but marginal. I try to avoid marginal in any piece of equip, but one used to protect my life or the life of my family, marginal just doesn't seem appropriate.
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