GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-07-2013, 13:49   #126
G26S239
NRA Patron
 
G26S239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: PRK
Posts: 9,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackMac View Post
One man's experience. My friend was in his store when a BG came in to rob him, got the drop on him and as he was headed toward the door, my friend got his .380 and yelled at BG who turned and as he was bringing up his gun to line up on this storekeeper, my friend got off three quick shots. BG runs outside and gets away. No blood trail, no dents in door frame, no broken glass. Days later Mr. BG goes to local hospital with three abdominal wounds. Do you still want to carry a .380? If you do aim higher for the chest or head or use a larger caliber.
How was that an unsatisfactory outcome for your friend?

In circa 2006 my friend's brother in Utah was confronted by an armed angry ex con. He shot the criminal in the neck. It dropped him and killed him. I don't know what ammunition he had in the gun, the shoot was ruled justifiable.

380 is hardly ideal but is not doomed to fail either.

Edit: I personally do know someone else who was shot with a 380. I met him a few years later when he was clean. He was selling dope at the time (crank) and was hugely fat. He was shot a few times with I believe a Lorcin 380 and his response was to get up and kick one of the two would be robbers ass, the other robber ran away. Scott died a few years ago so I am relying on what he related to me some years back. Other people verified to me that after he had been shot he fought his shooter.

Sorry for the unverifiable anecdotes.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 21, 26 X 2, 32 and 36.
Proud member of the PigPen. Embrace the Pignose.

Last edited by G26S239; 05-07-2013 at 14:09.. Reason: recalled Scott's account after initial post.
G26S239 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 14:12   #127
mtnglide
Senior Member
 
mtnglide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 161
As I get older and realize that I am no longer 10 feet tall and bullet proof, my G30 is more and more comforting.
mtnglide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 14:21   #128
G26S239
NRA Patron
 
G26S239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: PRK
Posts: 9,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnglide View Post
As I get older and realize that I am no longer 10 feet tall and bullet proof, my G30 is more and more comforting.
That is understandable. I no longer have my G30 but I have a 36 and USP45 compact. Even out of a 3.8" barrel a 230 grain bullet is pretty good.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 21, 26 X 2, 32 and 36.
Proud member of the PigPen. Embrace the Pignose.
G26S239 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 14:43   #129
cowboywannabe
you savvy?
 
cowboywannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: on a planet near you
Posts: 20,549
caliber is not a good substitute for shot placement.

ive seen men take large caliber rounds (9mm or bigger) to the chest and walk to the ambulance. ive seen men take a single small caliber round (.32acp and .25acp) to the neck area and die in seconds.

in fact there is the Tpr. Coats murder to consider....he died from a single .22lr fired from a mini gun while his murderer lived after taking five .38spl +p from a 4" bbl to the abdomin.

nobody can intelligently argue that the .380acp is good for defense, but it is better than nothing.

if you can carry bigger you should do so.
__________________
with Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana, Nyssa, and Tegan.

Facts are no match against enthusiasm and ignorance...
cowboywannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 14:58   #130
Joshhtn
Rastaman!
 
Joshhtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 6,152


Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
caliber is not a good substitute for shot placement.

ive seen men take large caliber rounds (9mm or bigger) to the chest and walk to the ambulance. ive seen men take a single small caliber round (.32acp and .25acp) to the neck area and die in seconds.

in fact there is the Tpr. Coats murder to consider....he died from a single .22lr fired from a mini gun while his murderer lived after taking five .38spl +p from a 4" bbl to the abdomin.

nobody can intelligently argue that the .380acp is good for defense, but it is better than nothing.

if you can carry bigger you should do so.
Good stuff... Shot placement is key.
__________________
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
***CHECK OUT MY EBAY STORE FOR EVERYTHING YOU NEED-***
HEINRICH TREASURES

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric View Post
Dude, you are ****ing banned.
Joshhtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 17:59   #131
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,140
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
caliber is not a good substitute for shot placement.

ive seen men take large caliber rounds (9mm or bigger) to the chest and walk to the ambulance. ive seen men take a single small caliber round (.32acp and .25acp) to the neck area and die in seconds.

in fact there is the Tpr. Coats murder to consider....he died from a single .22lr fired from a mini gun while his murderer lived after taking five .38spl +p from a 4" bbl to the abdomin.

nobody can intelligently argue that the .380acp is good for defense, but it is better than nothing.

if you can carry bigger you should do so.
All true but anyone that thinks they are delivering perfect shot placement in a gunfight are kidding themselves. WHy you carry the largest caliber you can shoot well. You may only land one hit & it is likely to be less than perfect. If I knew my attack would come at arms length, then anything would do as it would be an easy headshot. Not likely though is it.
I worked out my buddies LCP pretty extensively. I was able to get decent hits out to 25yds w/ the crappy little sights & so-so trigger, but it was very deliberate shooting. Much easier to get the same hits w/ a slightly larger gun & better sights/trigger. I can always dress around any gun I choose to carry.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

Last edited by fredj338; 05-07-2013 at 18:01..
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 11:32   #132
cowboywannabe
you savvy?
 
cowboywannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: on a planet near you
Posts: 20,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
All true but anyone that thinks they are delivering perfect shot placement in a gunfight are kidding themselves. WHy you carry the largest caliber you can shoot well. You may only land one hit & it is likely to be less than perfect. If I knew my attack would come at arms length, then anything would do as it would be an easy headshot. Not likely though is it.
I worked out my buddies LCP pretty extensively. I was able to get decent hits out to 25yds w/ the crappy little sights & so-so trigger, but it was very deliberate shooting. Much easier to get the same hits w/ a slightly larger gun & better sights/trigger. I can always dress around any gun I choose to carry.
so you agree with me?
__________________
with Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana, Nyssa, and Tegan.

Facts are no match against enthusiasm and ignorance...
cowboywannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 11:42   #133
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,140
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
so you agree with me?
Only in that a 380 is better than nothing. IMO, if you are serious about carrying a gun, carry something you can fight with under most circumstance. Assuming your fight will be only at 21ft or less & a single opponent is not realistic, you'll fail miserably as distance increase or the number of attackers. Few that carry a mouse gun carry a spare mag, so now you have a caliber that is woefully lacking & only 6-7rds. Seems like a bad position to put yourself in when there are always better options.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

Last edited by fredj338; 05-08-2013 at 11:44..
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 11:48   #134
cowboywannabe
you savvy?
 
cowboywannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: on a planet near you
Posts: 20,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Only in that a 380 is better than nothing. IMO, if you are serious about carrying a gun, carry something you can fight with under most circumstance. Assuming your fight will be only at 21ft or less & a single opponent is not realistic, you'll fail miserably as distance increase or the number of attackers. Few that carry a mouse gun carry a spare mag, so now you have a caliber that is woefully lacking & only 6-7rds. Seems like a bad position to put yourself in when there are always better options.
i thought my ending sentence summed it up pretty well. what about that do you disagree with?
__________________
with Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana, Nyssa, and Tegan.

Facts are no match against enthusiasm and ignorance...
cowboywannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 12:27   #135
Chesafreak
Senior Member
 
Chesafreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 1,632
I never was able to get comfortable relying on ONLY a .380 for EDC so I traded it off for a 9mm. The only way I would ever carry a .380 again is as a BUG, never as a primary carry.

Pro's: Concealability. Its better than nothing, or the .45 you leave at home.

Cons: Hollow points either fail to adequately expand due to low velocity, or when they do fully expand, penetration suffers.
Chesafreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 12:37   #136
cowboywannabe
you savvy?
 
cowboywannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: on a planet near you
Posts: 20,549
again, if you can carry larger you should do so. that said, there are times when all a person can carry and conceal adequately is a mini gun. women and other small framed folks in hot and HUMID climates when engaged in certain functions cannot go with adequate concealment garb. engaging in certain activities also limits the size of the gun.

for sedimentary folks, the bleacher crowd and all, this is less likely a hinderence.
__________________
with Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana, Nyssa, and Tegan.

Facts are no match against enthusiasm and ignorance...
cowboywannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 12:51   #137
Clusterfrack
Senior Member
 
Clusterfrack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 2,077
I rarely carry my Sig p238 because a G26 is so easy to conceal. When I do carry the p238, it's loaded with 100 gr Buffalo Bore hard cast flat nose (1050 fps from that gun), and I've got an extra mag.

Of course, I would rather have my G26 or G19 with HST 147s or Ranger T 127s but I am confident that the 238 will be a good weapon in my hands.
__________________
"I have one simple request... and that is to have sharks with fricking laser beams attached to their heads!"--Dr. Evil
Clusterfrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 13:55   #138
rustytxrx
Senior Member
 
rustytxrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,068
there might be a limit on how large. I saw a fellow shooting his 2" 500 S&W at 7 yds on the pistol range. on his second shoot it blew the backer board of the trolley.

__________________
Rusty
Texas, I luv u
rustytxrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 16:40   #139
purrrfect 10
Senior Member
 
purrrfect 10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Linden, Virginia
Posts: 875
Luuuve my Ruger NRA version LCP 380 w Crimson trace lazer at 25 feet i shoot a consistent 3" group. Anyone thinks this little guy is not enough for close up and personal is wrong wrong wrong. Sorry check it against 9mm yup a 9 is a little more but not enough that matters in my book. OK talk about stopping power try my G20 10 mm with that work? 40 cal? 45? 44 mag. Just remember shot placement is everything
__________________
WAR DOES NOT DETERMINE WHO IS RIGHT, IT DETERMINES WHO IS LEFT
((((((((((((((((((((
THAT SAID ))))))))))))
I'm in the best condition I possibly can be ~ being in this condition...
purrrfect 10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 16:42   #140
robhic
Platinum Membership
WOLVERINE!!!!
 
robhic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
I rarely carry my Sig p238 because a G26 is so easy to conceal. When I do carry the p238, it's loaded with 100 gr Buffalo Bore hard cast flat nose (1050 fps from that gun), and I've got an extra mag.

Of course, I would rather have my G26 or G19 with HST 147s or Ranger T 127s but I am confident that the 238 will be a good weapon in my hands.
Just to add a bit to this: Those BB 100gr HCFN bullets had a 24" penetration (!!!) in a chart/test I saw a while back. I cannot find it for the life of me, but I thought 24" was pretty extreme for a 380 round!

And those BB HP rounds gave 12-13" penetration, too. If you ever get attacked by a block of ballistics gel, those rounds would dispatch it quickly!

When I carry the 380 (please...) it is loaded with some of that BB hard cast stuff. I bought it mainly for the grandudes to shoot. They don't get the BB stuff (too expensive!) but it's a good gun for the boys to shoot.
__________________
-- Robert --
NRA Life Member

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke
robhic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:42   #141
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,140
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrrfect 10 View Post
Luuuve my Ruger NRA version LCP 380 w Crimson trace lazer at 25 feet i shoot a consistent 3" group. Anyone thinks this little guy is not enough for close up and personal is wrong wrong wrong. Sorry check it against 9mm yup a 9 is a little more but not enough that matters in my book. OK talk about stopping power try my G20 10 mm with that work? 40 cal? 45? 44 mag. Just remember shot placement is everything
You miss the point, you are planning for close up & personal. What happens when distance stretches a bit, even 30-40 ft?? I have always hated the mouse gun concept as a primary & not crazy about them as BUG. If you need a BUG, you need to finish whatever fight you are in right now. A 380 is really minimal unless you can get a CNS shot in & now we are talking luck w/ a mouse gun.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:47   #142
Clusterfrack
Senior Member
 
Clusterfrack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 2,077
I'm not advocating for the .380 over other better options, but with practice it can be a good weapon. For example, using my p238 I can keep most of my shots in the A zone of a USPSA target at 20 yds, and can shoot a 3.03s 7 shot all-A zone Bill Drill at 7 yds from concealment. I can't remember what my times were on a FAST or failure to stop drill, but it wasn't bad.

(I've tried similar exercises with an LCP and a Bodyguard, and can't come close to that level of performance.)
__________________
"I have one simple request... and that is to have sharks with fricking laser beams attached to their heads!"--Dr. Evil

Last edited by Clusterfrack; 05-08-2013 at 17:50..
Clusterfrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:49   #143
SevenSixtyTwo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tampa Bay Area Fl
Posts: 2,753
http://catm.com/yabbfiles/Attachment...FBIAcademy.pdfAfter reading this, I've been rolling a cannon around like a wheelbarrow. Bigger is better but .380 causes and itch and .40 will blow your innards out isn't entirely accurate.

Warning. Very graphic morgue pics.
SevenSixtyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:53   #144
dkf
Senior Member
 
dkf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
there might be a limit on how large. I saw a fellow shooting his 2" 500 S&W at 7 yds on the pistol range. on his second shoot it blew the backer board of the trolley.

Never saw the need for a barrel under 4" on a large frame hand cannon like the .500 SW or Ruger Super Redhawk. They not only look dumb they really hurt the performance of the cartridge.
dkf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 17:56   #145
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrrfect 10 View Post
Luuuve my Ruger NRA version LCP 380 w Crimson trace lazer at 25 feet i shoot a consistent 3" group. Anyone thinks this little guy is not enough for close up and personal is wrong wrong wrong. Sorry check it against 9mm yup a 9 is a little more but not enough that matters in my book. OK talk about stopping power try my G20 10 mm with that work? 40 cal? 45? 44 mag. Just remember shot placement is everything
Up close I doubt I am going to even take a split second to farge around with a laser. Up close firing groups, on a moving target, is a moot point.

Using a .380 "up close" is sort of like using a .38 for bear protection. It may well kill the attacker......eventually...but neither one gives me a great deal of confidence that I will be around to see that result, which is pretty much my goal in the first place.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 18:03   #146
Clusterfrack
Senior Member
 
Clusterfrack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 2,077
True enough Countrygun, but pistols in general suck at stopping people right there.
__________________
"I have one simple request... and that is to have sharks with fricking laser beams attached to their heads!"--Dr. Evil
Clusterfrack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 18:16   #147
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
True enough Countrygun, but pistols in general suck at stopping people right there.
Exactly, hence I want as much on my side as I can get.

Some people have pointed out that pinpoint accuracy is not possible in a fluid situation and I agree, but the same issues make me leery about having the time to compensate with volume. If I only have time for a couple of shots, I am going to go with "more power" rather than less.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 20:23   #148
Teecher45
Senior Member
 
Teecher45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by robhic View Post
if you must carry a 380 (and some just might...) look at Buffalo Bore 100gr Hard Cast lead flat nose +P ammo. 24" penetration!!! Not cheap, I believe it was $26 for 20 rounds. But it is hot! (for a 380...).
That's what mine is loaded with.
Costly, yes.
Worth it, yes.
BTW, all handguns are underpowered. My primary carry is a .45, but there are times it's the LCP or nothing, in those instances I'll take the LCP loaded with BB and extra mag, loaded with BB.
__________________
The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.
Teecher45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 21:10   #149
plp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 421
1. I am glad I don't live in the world many of you have to deal with, doubt if I would still be here if that were the case. I applaud your survival skills, hope I never have to find out if I would be good enough to survive.

2. I can only think of one thing worse than taking another human life, losing mine because I hesitated in a survival situation and leaving my family to fend for themselves . I pray I never have to be put in that situation and I mean that sincerely.

3. I carry my S&W Bodyguard daily, in all situations other than when I have to go in a courthouse or other government facility. I'm a civilian, have no advanced training or superpowers, although I have spent 3 decades looking through crosshairs at distances sometimes exceeding a mile. I'm a fair shot with a long gun, not so much with a pistol. My weapon of choice in an SD situation would probably be my Reeboks, may get shot in the ass or soles of my shoes because this homie WILL be lowrunnin'.

4. I know from firsthand experience a .380 WILL drop a 200lb hog with a headshot and will blow a water mocassin in half. I practice weekly at 7 yards, anything further away and see Reebok reference above.

5. Thanks to all of you for this great informational resource, learn something every time I come here.
plp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 21:20   #150
muscogee
Senior Member
 
muscogee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,841


Quote:
Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
Ballistic not with standing, I have never found one that I liked to shoot.
Ever shot a CZ 83? Great ergonomics. Very intuitive pointer.
__________________
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Leona Helmsley
muscogee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:37.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 777
230 Members
547 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42