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Old 05-15-2013, 08:50   #21
cmr287
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What pistol are you using... Some you have to use the Visible dots to line up with equil light and equil light. Glocks you take the front and read sight and make the tops flush. Once thats done make sure there is equil spacing between the front sight and the left and right sides of the rear sight. I garentee you will be in black. I teach pistol marksmanship and shoot 50 yards constantly. Ill post a thred where you can see my shotgroups. My family is in Cali, Rocklin/ lincon area. We should hook up what im able to come home from GA and do some shooting.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:51   #22
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Go to this thread to see my pics of my groups. This is a G19 at 30 yards.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1481894
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Old 05-18-2013, 21:55   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerslayer01 View Post
Please elaborate on this because I have always been left eye dominant but right hand shooter. What were you going to suggest to help with that. I have had some problems at times with shooting low and left and just attributed it to bad trigger slap.
If the OP isn't sure about his dominant eye, he could try doing the old "make a triangle with two hands and stare at something far off while slowly moving your hands toward your face..." The eye your hands end up centered over is your dominant eye.

I am in this same boat, left handed but right eye dominant (cross dominant freaks). I find it easiest to shoot with both eyes open, which takes some practice to get used to but is better tactically.

Once you know how to aim for your body...The diagnostic target posted above is a great help to figuring out what to work on. As suggested, slow down and move up. In extreme cases you might want to move to a lower caliber. Once everything works right increase distance and speed.

You might also find this useful, as a good reference on "equal hight, equal light" suggested above:

http://pistol-training.com/archives/1361

Good luck!

Last edited by punkglock; 05-18-2013 at 21:58..
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:59   #24
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Trigger pull too heavy ... You are overcompensating. Same thing happened to my G22 when i went from 5.5 lbs to 8.5 lbs
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:52   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBEAR92314 View Post
...I'm new to both handguns and glocks I got a new 19 a couple of months ago but the range up here was closed till a couple of weeks ago....
I'm in my mid-thirties, and I didn't get into firearms of any kind until a few years ago. My first gun was a Glock22. I had the same issue that you have - my shots were consistently going low and to the left. I believe it was caused by A) jerking the trigger, B) anticipating the recoil, and C) the fact that my hands are just a wee bit small for the Glock grip. I've since nearly eliminated issues A and B through listening to advice on threads like these and through practice. Don't be discouraged, you'll get better with time if you listen to the experts around here.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:45   #26
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This is one of the most common things I see with a Glock. I used to have the same problem a few years ago . Below is some great advice that was brought up on another forum. i wish i got this a few years ago. Also look up "Brian Enos Grip". That should correct a good majority of the issue.

"The combination of the trigger's travel, shape and positioning tends to cause the same/similar incorrect trigger press across the full spectrum of shooters.

You can HELP to overcome this to some degree by being aware of, and possibly altering, the position of your finger on the trigger. I find with ALL pistols that I wind up moving the trigger surface closer to the tip of my finger during quick firing, and it caused more left-pushes (as a right handed shooter) with the Glock than with any other pistol. Though it's BETTER to teach yourself to press the trigger straight to the rear regardless of finger position, you can "cheat" it a little by keeping your contact point more towards the center pad or even the first distal joint.

I've also found that dropping the finger lower on the trigger face, even to the point of slightly dragging the inside-bottom surface of the trigger guard, gives you more room for error in your trigger control. I believe it's a combination of two factors-- 1) altering the angle of the trigger's camming action, thereby facilitating a more consistent press, and 2) eliminating the possibility of "frame drag" with your trigger finger, which can also cause shots to be pushed off in the opposite direction.

Consider those options, but know that one way or another... the real cause is that you're moving the gun/sights around during the trigger press, by virtue of your trigger finger."

Last edited by bradyrw625; 05-26-2013 at 11:47..
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:10   #27
Kichigai
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I shoot low and right always I have developed a flinching problem that i cant get rid of. But atleast i am amble to shoot them in very tight groups
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:36   #28
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Worked on my stance,grip and trigger pull getting better but still have work to do....
18 yards is the closest target set at the range.......
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Old 05-26-2013, 17:21   #29
lethal tupperwa
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Turn the target around so that the blank side faces you.

hold the sight picture(top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight.
an equal amount of light on each of the front sight in the rear sight gap.)

hold that sight picture in front of the Blank target
concentrate on that picture not the target.

shoot slowly and try to pull the trigger with out moving the picture.
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Old 06-02-2013, 18:41   #30
BIGBEAR92314
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Went to the range again today grouping a little better each trip.
At 18 yards...
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Old 06-02-2013, 19:57   #31
ithaca_deerslayer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBEAR92314 View Post
Worked on my stance,grip and trigger pull getting better but still have work to do....
18 yards is the closest target set at the range.......
Tactics and Training
Here, try this on for size:

Surprise break

Let's slow everything down. Let's make 5 bullets last you 30 minutes of intense brain strain. Stop blasting away (for a while, just to try something different).

You want a surprise break. You do not want to know when the gun will go BOOM. Your current problem is a flinch. If you know when the gun will fire, you will flinch. Low left is Glock for right handers. You are subconsciously anticipating the recoil. Flinching.

The cure is to not know when the gun will go BOOM. Thus, slow the trigger pull. Slow, very slow, but steady.

Align the sights, and begin. How slow and steady, like a train creeping into a railroad yard, can you pull the trigger? Can you take all of 30 seconds, once your trigger finger starts to pull? Don't start and stop. Instead, start and go as slow, steadily, as you can.

One half of your brain is keeping the sights aligned, the other half is slowly and steadily pulling the trigger.

Don't worry about your sights bouncing around. You can reduce that wobble, but not eliminate it. Don't stop your trigger pull to fix the sights. Instead your trigger pull must be steady. Mentally accept your sights bouncing around.

If you are really trying this, going slow, taking at least 30 seconds long for the trigger to be completely pulled, you will slowly feel the pressure build, but you don't know when the trigger will "break" and fire. BOOM! That shot was hopefully a surprise to you, with regard to the exact timing of it.

That was shot #1. All that mental preparation, and making your trigger finger go slow and steady. Now do it again. Aim the exact same way, keeping the sights aligned on the center of the bulls eye. Nevermind where that last shot went, it doesn't matter as long as it was safely down range.

Your eye focus should be crisply on the front sight. Keep it even with the rear sights, a nice even imaginary line across the top of all 3 ears of your sights. Equal white space (the air) on both sides of your front sight. Ignore any marks or dots on your sights, you are using the form of the sight itself. Keep focused on the front sight and keep that whole sight picture on the center of the bulls eye. Now begin the slow and steady 30 second trigger pull for shot #2. BOOM!

Rest if you want to, lower the gun to a 45 degree angle, pointing downrange a bit, not at the target, not at your feet, but somewheres between. Rest your elbows on your chest if that helps. Breath in and out counting to 10. Then begin the procedure for shot #3. Same as you did previously, all shots aimed the same way, ignoring the previous bullet holes.

BOOM! #4. After each shot you should still be aiming with your sights on target. You let the gun rise up. You know it will recoil and have blast and noise. Just let that happen. If indoors wear plugs and muffs. Accept the recoil. Don't try to tame it, not yet. After each shot when the gun comes naturally back down to target, focus your sights on target again. This is part of your follow through.

Rest if you need to, holding the gun at the 45 degree angle again. Now begin the procedure for shot number #5. Every shot done exactly the same way. As you stay focused on your front sight it might be useful the think about yourself pulling the trigger slowly straight back toward your rear sight. Still slow and steady, 30 seconds long to pull that trigger, every shot the same, the procedure the same. BOOM!

Ok, now after all 5 shots are done, you can finally check your target. How's it look? Put up a fresh target and clear your mind. Reload a mag with another grueling 5 rounds, and prepare to do the whole thing again.

If you are truly following the slow and steady part of this advice and getting a surprise break, then you will notice your group sizes getting smaller

Later down the road, after you've mastered this, you can work on speeding up the process.



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Old 06-02-2013, 20:19   #32
BIGBEAR92314
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Thanks Ithaca I'll give it try next time out.

Last edited by BIGBEAR92314; 06-02-2013 at 20:19..
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:20   #33
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I'm a new shooter too, and working to overcome my low/left tendency (right handed, right-eye dominant). With a couple of lessons and quite a bit more range time, including some dry-firing, I'm slowly starting to tighten up the groups though I still am a long way away from one ragged hole.

I found my best success is when taking it slow, with a deliberate and gentle straight-back squeeze of the trigger. Coupled with a firmer grip on the left side of the frame, I've started keeping the majority of my shots closer to the center line. This is so much fun, trying to improve on every trip out.

I've been shooting at 6" reactive targets at 25 feet (with my Glock 17). This is one of the better groups from the previous session:

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Old 06-16-2013, 15:21   #34
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I actually got to spend the day with a retired CHP Seargant who did some time as an instructor as well. I learned a lot today,up untill this point I was self taught and can really see how getting training from an instructor is very valuable. He had me change my stance and grip. Also I wasn't leaning into the target enough. There were all kinds of toys to try shooting as well.Got to try several .45s and .40s and an AK 47 7.62x39 all in all had a great time for Fathers Day!
When we started the day I was all over the place and by the end of the day I was hitting at least 8 out of 10 on target.....
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Old 06-20-2013, 15:55   #35
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My quick fix is I just aim to adjust where the shots are going. In your case I'd just aim high and right.

I've found when I do that, I tend to relax and after a few rounds whatever tension I introduced (flinch, anticipation, bad grip, etc) goes away and then everything is going right where I am aiming. Then I get back on true sightline.

A spotting scope is a must have if you are shooting at 18 yards. I load and shoot 5 rounds per mag, then check the scope to see what I'm doing. I also keep a notebook with a target drawn on it and mark down 1-5, 6-10, etc. as I'm shooting.

A better and (sometimes) cheaper alternative to the traditional spotting scope is a pawnshop find builder's level or transit. Most of these have better optics by far than even medium grade spotting scopes and given the quantum shift in optics and digital encoding, are becoming obsolete for building. I picked up a 32x Wild (now Leica) mechanical transit for a friend for 75 bucks, with case and tripod at a local swap meet. It is rock solid and can be locked in place both horizontally and vertically, making it easy to focus right in close.
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