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Old 05-08-2013, 21:58   #201
G23Gen4TX
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I have a question.

If shot two hit JFK in the back and went out through his throat then hit Connaly and shot three hit JFK in the head, where did shot #1 hit?

If Oswald missed the first shot, but got the othe two on target then he couldn't have been that far off. The 1st shot either hit the car (which we know it didn't as there are no bullet holes in the car) or it hit the ground and someone out of the witnesses would have noticed it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:04   #202
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Originally Posted by G23Gen4TX View Post
I have a question.

If shot two hit JFK in the back and went out through his throat then hit Connaly and shot three hit JFK in the head, where did shot #1 hit?

If Oswald missed the first shot, but got the othe two on target then he couldn't have been that far off. The 1st shot either hit the car (which we know it didn't as there are no bullet holes in the car) or it hit the ground and someone out of the witnesses would have noticed it.
There was a witness who was struck by something, believed to be concrete fragments. The first bullet was never found.

ETA: FWIW, my hunch is the shot picture came up as the limo was obscured by the tree. Maybe he hit a branch? Who knows.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:06   #203
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There was a witness who was struck by something, believed to be concrete fragments. The first bullet was never found.
Yes. But that witness was next to the overpass. It's pretty far away and if Oswald shot the first shot when the limo was obscured by the tree then he was basically aiming about 30 feet above it.

The only way I can think that this is possible and maybe the reason Oswald completely missed the first shot is that maybe he had an accidental discharge as he was taking aim.

Maybe he was trying to get the easy shot before the car turned onto Elm street and as some assumed didn't (maybe because he left the safety on) then he needs to quickly change angle because the car is now traveling on Elm street. Now he got the safety off but because of the adrenalin rush he lets the first round off as he lowers the rifle and hits the overpass.

It's a possibility.

I'll edit and correct myself.

James Tague claimed he was hit by the second or third bullet. When he was questioned by the warren commission he said it was the second shot but that bullet was found on the stretcher in the hospital.

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Old 05-08-2013, 22:19   #204
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Look at a slow-mo view of Zapruder. You'll see his head goes forward a couple of inches when he's shot from behind. That's what a head does when it's shot. Do the physics. People do not get blown away like is portrayed by Hollywood.

The flinging backward is a primitive neural response seen when your CPU gets knocked out. You can actually see a similar response to all kinds of insults to the brain like massive stroke, sepsis, etc. Basically it is a sudden contraction of truncal extensor muscles, akin to opisthotonos. The Okie Corral
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You feel comfortable with believing that Lyndon Johnson would be above murder to gain power? I am not. Living here in Texas and seeing the escapades of the 1948 senatorial elections, he makes BHO look like a piker!

Back and to the left is what is indelibly ingrained in my mind! I have watched this video far more than I wish I ever had but in the end, back and to the left! I can remember exactly where I was the moment I heard of his death. Nearly 50 years later, I still believe that there was a conspiracy.

I trust our government as far as I can spit watermelon seeds. Just the fact that this could be allowed to happen in a modern society, even back in the 60's is ludicrous unless it was orchestrated fom within! We had a naive post WWII mind set believing that our government could do no wrong!

I am originally from Pgh and have personally met Cyril Wecht. I have listened to him speak. I doubt he would agree with your forensics.

I truly wish to discuss this issue and not throw stones as I can remember where I was at the time that I learned of this assassination. I did a term paper in 10th grade and even back then, I didn't believe the drivel we were fed. There is ammo on each side of this discussion as I am still confused 50 years later! How I wish we were not having this discussion!

A little side note, I was privey to the results of the exhumation of LHO back in the mid 80's and I can definitely vouch for the conclusion that LHO is dead and buried in the grave marked Oswald in Dallas. The lead dentist on the team was a fellow faculty member at the UTHSCSA and we actually got to see the evidence up close and first hand!

Dental records and post mortem findings matched conclusively! May he rest in peace!

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Old 05-08-2013, 22:26   #205
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Originally Posted by G23Gen4TX View Post
Yes. But that witness was next to the overpass. It's pretty far away and if Oswald shot the first shot when the limo was obscured by the tree then he was basically aiming about 30 feet above it.

The only way I can think that this is possible and maybe the reason Oswald completely missed the first shot is that maybe he had an accidental discharge as he was taking aim.

Maybe he was trying to get the easy shot before the car turned onto Elm street and as some assumed didn't (maybe because he left the safety on) then he needs to quickly change angle because the car is now traveling on Elm street. Now he got the safety off but because of the adrenalin rush he lets the first round off as he lowers the rifle and hits the overpass.

It's a possibility.
I say you're scenario is as good as anybody's and one of those things we'll never know. I don't think it changes anything about the view of LHO firing the three shots, but it is another one of those things that leaves a question, inviting another CT.

I understand much about why the popular opinions involve a conspiracy theory, despite the fact if would appear that any particular CT is in the minority. While I admit this is overly simplistic, the fact that so many different theories are proposed is exactly why I believe Occam's razor applies: "Among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected."
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:37   #206
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I am originally from Pgh and have personally met Cyril Wecht. I have listened to him speak. I doubt he would agree with your forensics.
And Dr. Wecht was the only pathologist on the HSCA committee who didn't agree with the single bullet theory, though when questioned by Bugliosi years later could not account for where that second bullet went after it traveled through JFK's neck. I'd have to delve back to what he said about the head shot but recognize he was the only dissenting opinion amongst that esteemed group about their conclusions.

And I've met Werner Spitz and did a mini-forensic path rotation under him at the Wayne County Morgue. I offer that in a joking fashion as that clearly does not make me a forensic pathologist, though I do have a broader medical background from which to speak.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:37   #207
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Found this interesting video about the first shot. It also supports the idea that James Tague was hit by the first shot ricochet.

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Old 05-08-2013, 22:46   #208
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I trust our government as far as I can spit watermelon seeds.
Not even that far, for me.

I'm baffled that people think it is some kind of reach for the CIA, or whoever, to have possibly had some part in this particular murder. Like that's just some kind of crazy talk. Lol. Killing people is what they do.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul...nion/oe-wise22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:59   #209
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I'm baffled that people think it is some kind of reach for the CIA, or whoever, to have possibly had some part in this particular murder. Like that's just some kind of crazy talk.
Who said it was a reach, but where's some credible evidence? Was it the CIA? Was it the Soviets? Was it the Cubans? Was it the Mafia? Was it the Secret Service? Was it the FBI? Was it LBJ? Was it . . . ?

Every one one of those entities was looking to one of the others at the time as the possible perp and what did that uncover? Besides every other aspect of this, when in US history was assassination ever a necessity for a transfer of power? The only other conspiracy ever in the assassination of a US Presient was Lincoln and that was just a group of malcontent losers. Even with LBJ taking over the reigns, all that was accomplished for the most part was continuing and implementing JFK's agendas and ironically, probably more successfully than he ever could have.

And I'll repeat, I really have no thought that I can change anybody's thinking about this but rather, like to point out what I see as rather obvious conclusions from what is known. YMMV
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Old 05-08-2013, 23:35   #210
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Who said it was a reach, but where's some credible evidence?
I could go back in the thread and count them up but it would take too long. "Conspiracy theorists are so crazy".

Quote:
Was it the CIA? Was it the Soviets? Was it the Cubans? Was it the Mafia? Was it the Secret Service? Was it the FBI? Was it LBJ? Was it . . . ?
I don't know. If I had to guess, I'd venture the one who has planned and carried out assassinations of national leaders for decades, but i can't say for sure.

Quote:
Every one one of those entities was looking to one of the others at the time as the possible perp and what did that uncover?
Who knows. How could I know anything about FBI or CIA investigations of the FBI or the CIA? Do you think you know what those people know, about anything?

Quote:
Besides every other aspect of this, when in US history was assassination ever a necessity for a transfer of power?
Why would a necessity be required to murder somebody? I'll venture 99.99% of all murders are not out of necessity, lol. Maybe somebody didn't feel like suffering another 5 or 6 years of being thwarted or marginalized. I have no idea. Your questions aren't making that much sense man.

I don't know what happened, but I feel like the official story is at least as unlikely as any other theory to be far from the whole truth, since governments lie all the time. Like Benghazi or fast and furious, for a couple recent good ones. Whatever they say happened, that's what I'm almost sure I can rule out from the get go.

But i don't know, so I'll just have to watch some fun and interesting videos and take a guess


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Old 05-08-2013, 23:47   #211
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Another fun video.

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Old 05-09-2013, 05:31   #212
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Originally Posted by Stubudd View Post
I could go back in the thread and count them up but it would take too long. "Conspiracy theorists are so crazy".



I don't know. If I had to guess, I'd venture the one who has planned and carried out assassinations of national leaders for decades, but i can't say for sure.
Therefore it feels like there should be a conspiracy, so there must have been one. I get that and believe that's one of the main reasons four out of five people believe there was one. I had a few lingering doubts myself throughout the years, so it's not like I don't see that aspect of it.



Quote:
Who knows. How could I know anything about FBI or CIA investigations of the FBI or the CIA? Do you think you know what those people know, about anything?
I know there has been investigation upon investigation and this is where you have to start implicating a boatload of people in a cover up, many of them decades later. I know there's an overwhelming amount of evidence pointing to LHO as the lone gun man. Is it possible that he was part of a conspiracy? I acknowledge that as a possibility, though that again begs the question, where's the credible evidence after fifty years?



Quote:
Why would a necessity be required to murder somebody? I'll venture 99.99% of all murders are not out of necessity, lol. Maybe somebody didn't feel like suffering another 5 or 6 years of being thwarted or marginalized. I have no idea. Your questions aren't making that much sense man.
Except were not talking about a convenience store hold up gone bad or an inter-gang rivalry. We're talking about a planned assassination of the "leader of the free world". I'd freely admit that nobody knows LHO's motive, though I don't think that's too hard to see why he likely did it. Big government, big business, organized crime? Well, we're probably at an impasse if you don't think my question makes sense.

Quote:
I don't know what happened, but I feel like the official story is at least as unlikely as any other theory to be far from the whole truth, since governments lie all the time. Like Benghazi or fast and furious, for a couple recent good ones. Whatever they say happened, that's what I'm almost sure I can rule out from the get go.
And we're back to that "feeling" again and I get that. You know, as much as everybody likes to marginalize the Warren Commission, I think it takes a stretch to even conceive of such a disparate group agreeing to a coverup, making themselves accessories after the fact. For what? I doubt Gerry Ford and Earl Warren could have agreed on what time to eat lunch, let alone something like this but agree that's only an opinion.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:05   #213
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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You feel comfortable with believing that Lyndon Johnson would be above murder to gain power? I am not. Living here in Texas and seeing the escapades of the 1948 senatorial elections, he makes BHO look like a piker! ...
"landslide lyndon" (box 213 ring a bell? ). In the backrooms of Texas political circles they whispered his nom de plume as "lying lyndon."


lbj was suspected by some of having his own sister murdered.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:19   #214
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conspiracy crap makes me laugh, go chase chemtrails or something
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:30   #215
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conspiracy crap makes me laugh, go chase chemtrails or something
Diesel,

I am curious as to how old you are? Ni ask this because this conspiracy crap has not subsided in 50 years. This is not some new topic but one that in many health individuals doesn't sit well. Tell me there aren't cover ups going on today over a dead ambassador in Lybia?

With many of us that lived through those four days back in nov. 1963, there have been a lot of unanswered questions like where are the autopsy photos, notes, his brain and why were all records sealed until 2039, unless there was something to hide?

I could go on ad on.
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Old 05-09-2013, 18:05   #216
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This was shown on the History Channel awhile ago, then banned. There was another interview with Pres. Johnson's mistress that was very revealing, I couldn't find that interview.
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Old 05-09-2013, 18:14   #217
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There was another interview with Pres. Johnson's mistress that was very revealing, I couldn't find that interview.
I don't buy into any of this hokum but I believe this is the link you are looking for.

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Old 05-09-2013, 20:15   #218
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I don't buy into any of this hokum but I believe this is the link you are looking for.
Thanks Doc I saw that one but I was looking for the one the History Channel did.
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Old 05-09-2013, 20:43   #219
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:56   #220
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I don't buy into any of this hokum but I believe this is the link you are looking for.

Interview With LBJ's Mistress On JFK assassination - YouTube
Doc,

What am I missing? Did you actually watch her entire video? She is very credible and had the names and events on the tip of her tongue. A lot of this info is actually quite known and the players fit perfectly?

It is well known that LBJ was not the best person. It was told that he would run around the WH completely naked. He hob-nobbed with the elite and I have always wondered why he didn't run for the guaranteed second full term? My conspiratorial mind thinks that Nixon, Ford and or Bush 41 was about to come forward with information. Blackmail, if you will.

In my mind, these guys had the money, clout and muscle to pull this off. They could silence anyone and only the top players would have to know the plan. The rest merely tools. Why does the name George Soros come to mind? I know you are much too smart to believe that the president is the one in charge but rather the puppet. I also believe that there is way more power behind the office of POTUS than we could ever imagine!

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Old 05-10-2013, 16:13   #221
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I'm convinced its a conspiracy.

Don't think we will ever know the true story.

Most older people I talk to, that remember that day well, are convinced LBJ had something to do with it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 19:00   #222
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Perfectly normal that Oswald was then murdered by an outraged democrat-strip club owner with ties to Chicago. I see nothing suspicious at all.
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Old 05-10-2013, 19:05   #223
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DO NOT look for the magic lugi.
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Old 05-10-2013, 19:12   #224
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Time to settle this mess once and for all. I did it from the sewer in front of the motorcade, hid for a while, then hijacked a plane and faked my own death.
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Old 05-10-2013, 19:13   #225
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LBJ withdrew because Kennedy was running. Who knew he would be assassinated. Had LBJ been behind them, don't you think he'd have run????
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