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Old 05-04-2013, 08:39   #101
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...I have also heard Blakey tell of when he went to speak to Castro himself and asked him point blank if the Cubans were involved in JFK's death. Castro made the obvious point that that would have been the stupidest thing he ever could have done. He's spent a half-century trying to prevent the US from invading Cuba, why would he give the perfect pretext for doing so?
The HSCA itself determined that Cuba was not involved in the assassination. This seems to be one reason why.

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There were lot's of screw ups and mistakes... If it weren't such a somber event it would be laughable at what a comedy of errors the whole investigation and presentation to the public were right out of the gate.
I agree with this statement. As just one example - Allowing Allen Dulles to be on the Warren Commission was a huge conflict of interest.

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Birds of a feather . . .
If we are looking for a topic in which to "out" the extreme "tin foilers" - The JFK assassination is a poor choice. Polls have been done on this, and about 80% of Americans believe there was some type of conspiracy involved in JFK's death. Heck, my mom believes that there was some type of conspiracy behind JFK's death... she's about as conservative as they come, and anything but a "tin foiler".
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:46   #102
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The magic bullet brought down tower 7!

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Old 05-04-2013, 12:36   #103
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If we are looking for a topic in which to "out" the extreme "tin foilers" - The JFK assassination is a poor choice. Polls have been done on this, and about 80% of Americans believe there was some type of conspiracy involved in JFK's death. Heck, my mom believes that there was some type of conspiracy behind JFK's death... she's about as conservative as they come, and anything but a "tin foiler".
My comment in regard to this was somewhat tongue in cheek. I actually posted a link a few posts up that quoted numerous Gallup polls over the last 40-50 years noting exactly what you have said. I'm sure both my parents went to their graves believing LBJ was behind it, LBJ apparently went to his grave believing there was some conspiracy behind it, . . .

That said, when I went off into my foray of discovery about what we do know, I've found there are a lot of crazyazz conspiracy theories out there and plenty of people who passionately believe them. Some of those frankly do rise to the level of alien abduction but would agree that most people who believe there was a conspiracy, hence most people, are not invested in quite such fantastic theories.

The other thing I've come to realize though is that pursuing almost any of these conspiracies usually requires some suspension of disbelief. Again, the number of people who would have to have remained complicit through action or inaction is staggering, let alone the seamless coordination of events that would have to have occurred. Plus with many of these we are now suggesting any number of people with much to lose, little to gain, even members (including the scores of assistants) of the Warren Commission and HSCA were complicit in a cover-up, hence accessories to murder themselves, a crime punishable by death without a statute of limitations.
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Old 05-04-2013, 14:32   #104
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Interesting thread. I think this is one of those events that intrigues generations of people. I personally think that there were multiple shooters. Oswald most likely was a patsy as he said (not innocent, mind you, just innocent of actually killing the JFK). I am sure that if asked, Hillary would tell you that it doesnt make a difference now, and J Carney will tell you that it was a long long time ago (since a few months ago was a long long time ago to him, I can only assume that 50 years must be eons to him).
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Old 05-04-2013, 16:02   #105
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Does anyone here remember that the Attorney General then was Bobby Kennedy, the President's brother, and a political hard ball player?
RFK was also actively investigating organized crime activities along with the Teamsters involvement in money lending.

It was no secret that Jimmy Hoffa hated Bobby Kennedy.

Friday, November 22, 1963, a day I will always remember, would have been just an ordinary day, IF, JFK had listened to his advisers who cautioned him to avoid traveling to Dallas, then a hot bed of segregationist activity.
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Old 05-04-2013, 17:19   #106
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I have never been able to get past the earliest reports I heard, which said shots (plural) had been fired from the Grassy Knoll. Unlike Sandy Hook, the media was there at the time.


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Old 05-04-2013, 17:34   #107
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I have never been able to get past the earliest reports I heard, which said shots (plural) had been fired from the Grassy Knoll. Unlike Sandy Hook, the media was there at the time.


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Have you ever been to Dealey Plaza? I ask because it's a rather small bowl with sound reflective surfaces everywhere. Even the watchman in the railroad tower reported he routinely could not tell what direction sounds were coming from, despite working there on a daily basis. While most reported hearing three shots, it's easy to see how some thought they heard more with echoes, etc. The grass knoll is maybe 100 yards max from the sniper's nest in the TSBD on the same side of the street. No real surprise about any confusion there.
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Old 05-04-2013, 19:04   #108
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This makes me think there are few shooters here

I have only read the first page & I am shocked at the lack of knowledge from some regular posters here that in the past made perfect sense. I will only provide one example why the government version is utter BS. The pic I am posting is of JFK's back wound.

Tell me you believe Oswald fired from 6 floors up & hit here & it exited the throat.

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Old 05-04-2013, 19:09   #109
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I have only read the first page & I am shocked at the lack of knowledge from some regular posters here that in the past made perfect sense. I will only provide one example why the government version is utter BS. The pic I am posting is of JFK's back wound.

Tell me you believe Oswald fired from 6 floors up & hit here & it exited the throat.
The physics of the story is beyond reproach. It happened exactly the way the official story says it did.

There is no amount of belief or "but look at this" that can change that. If you think there is something that doesnt add up from a technical standpoint, it is your understanding that is flawed.


The "why" it happened is another story.
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Old 05-04-2013, 19:25   #110
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The physics of the story is beyond reproach. It happened exactly the way the official story says it did.

There is no amount of belief or "but look at this" that can change that. If you think there is something that doesnt add up from a technical standpoint, it is your understanding that is flawed.
Bingo. I'm probably not much longer for this thread but these are exactly the kinds of things that keep me in these JFK threads for awhile. There is so much misunderstanding about basic medical and ballistic evidence, it seems worthwhile to try and spread a little truth and facts.
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Old 05-04-2013, 19:47   #111
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Don't confuse me with the facts...

The physics of the story is beyond reproach. It happened exactly the way the official story says it did.

There is no amount of belief or "but look at this" that can change that. If you think there is something that doesnt add up from a technical standpoint, it is your understanding that is flawed.
My understanding is that someone wants me to believe that a high velocity round fired 6 floors up enters approximately 6 inches below the neck and exits the throat.

I have seen a lot of shootings firsthand.

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Old 05-04-2013, 19:51   #112
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The physics of the story is beyond reproach. It happened exactly the way the official story says it did.

There is no amount of belief or "but look at this" that can change that. If you think there is something that doesnt add up from a technical standpoint, it is your understanding that is flawed.
My understanding is that someone wants me to believe that a high velocity round fired 6 floors up enters approximately 6 inches below the neck and exits the throat.

I have seen a lot of shootings firsthand.
The physics are beyond reproach. Your beliefs on the issue wont change that.

If you take all the variables, distance, angles,...it is a perfect match.
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:02   #113
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The Okie Corral

I'll take the word of Michale Baden, Werner Spitz and a dozen other renowned forensic pathologists along with my own experience and understanding of anatomy anyday.
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:06   #114
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Some Brits did tests on the theories, and were able to mimic the nearly exact circumstances of the shootings, and were successful at firing 3 rounds through FBI gel, with bones in place, using the same rifle, and scope, and ammo, from the correct height of the book warehouse, and came up with very similar results of the actual shooting, including the bullet in Connely's leg, and nearly pristine bullets after-ward...

do-able.

'nuff evidence for me...one shooter, no groups.

i am out......of ammo, still, 6 months and counting...
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:07   #115
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The Okie Corral

I'll take the word of Michale Baden, Werner Spitz and a dozen other renowned forensic pathologists along with my own experience and understanding of anatomy anyday.
Look at the autopsy pics themselves even.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/201...-location.html

The Okie Corral

Again, the physics of the event happenes exactly how they official story says they do. That is glory of math...and something so lost on most conspiracy people...if you speak math, you cant be lied to and you dont have to rely on what you believe.

Sure, the math cant (in this case) tells us why but it can tell us how.
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:10   #116
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The physics are beyond reproach. Your beliefs on the issue wont change that.

If you take all the variables, distance, angles,...it is a perfect match.
You keep telling us that the 'physics are beyond reproach'. I don't know if that's true or not - it may be. Or not.

The 'pristine' bullet has always been a problem for me. FMJ is just that - a copper jacket over a lead core. These bullets are subject to distortion - not as much as a 'lead head'. But, I have a problem getting around the fact that the bullet is 'pristine'. It did a lot of work - including breaking bone.

Also, you always tell us that the 'physics' are subject to the "variables, distance, angles, ... it is a perfect match". Did you ever consider that a second (professional) shooter could have been in the TSBD? Would that not provide a 'perfect match' too?

The fact is that the FBI, and other Federal agencies, including the Warren Commission, bungled the investigation - to the point that conspiracy theories were bound to sprout. They made Barney Fife look good.
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:19   #117
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You keep telling us that the 'physics are beyond reproach'. I don't know if that's true or not - it may be. Or not.

The 'pristine' bullet has always been a problem for me. FMJ is just that - a copper jacket over a lead core. These bullets are subject to distortion - not as much as a 'lead head'. But, I have a problem getting around the fact that the bullet is 'pristine'. It did a lot of work - including breaking bone.

Also, you always tell us that the 'physics' are subject to the "variables, distance, angles, ... it is a perfect match". Did you ever consider that a second (professional) shooter could have been in the TSBD? Would that not provide a 'perfect match' too?

The fact is that the FBI, and other Federal agencies, including the Warren Commission, bungled the investigation - to the point that conspiracy theories were bound to sprout. They made Barney Fife look good.
Fred Flinstone could have fired the bullet or Mephistopheles could have willed holes to appear in the President and planted the evidence himself while he and Jesus were also planting dinosaur bones to test the faithful. Physics doesnt adress that so I cant disprove them.

What can be proven, and has (again if you speak math no one can lie to you) is, the "how" it happend, that actual, mechanical actions, happened just like the official story says.
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:27   #118
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Fred Flinstone could have fired the bullet or Mephistopheles could have willed holes to appear in the President and planted the evidence himself while he and Jesus were also planting dinosaur bones to test the faithful. Physics doesnt adress that so I cant disprove them.

What can be proven, and has (again if you speak math no one can lie to you) is, the "how" it happend, that actual, mechanical actions, happened just like the official story says.
I started this post in your theme of insults and decided to - restart. I don't have anything to be defensive about.

Math and physics are absolute sciences. How can absolute results come from the unknowns involved? Did Oswald have a jacket under his rifle? That could alter the angle used to produce the results you worship. The other measurements are also approximations (speed, distance, lateral angle, etc.). No absolute conclusion can be made using approximations. 2+2=4. 2+x may or may not be 4. Second graders get that.

I happen to believe that Oswald acted alone - I'm just saying that there is no absolute conclusion - there is no math or physics to this. Only conjuncture based on approximations.

You know what you can do with your typical manic insults.
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:29   #119
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... Superficial wound tract in Connally's left thigh, hence its falling out and no substantial part of the projectile was left in that wound.

As you purportedly read the entire Warren Commission documentation, you of course knew everything I just said. ...
You haven't read all of it. IMO, the supplements make the final report impossible.

Anyway, I don't know how you would possibly equal a fake bullet being found on a stretcher to a shallow leg would as Connally's actual leg would was BONE DEEP. He had fragments of the bullets imbedded in his bone until his death. Surprising you didn't know this fact, OR, you're just trolling.

Now, tell me again how much the pristine bullet weighed as the fragments which were actually pulled from Conally's other wounds have weight too. Waiting...
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:31   #120
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I started this post in your theme of insults and decided to - restart. I don't have anything to be defensive about.

Math and physics are absolute sciences. How can absolute results come from the unknowns involved? Did Oswald have a jacket under his rifle? That could alter the angle used to produce the results you worship. The other measurements are also approximations (speed, distance, lateral angle, etc.). No absolute conclusion can be made using approximations. 2+2=4. 2+x may or may not be 4. Second graders get that.

I happen to believe that Oswald acted alone - I'm just saying that there is no absolute conclusion - there is no math or physics to this. Only conjuncture based on approximations.

You know what you can do with your typical manic insults.
You are still confusing issues. If you would focus on those- instead of your desire to make a point about me, you would fair better in the realm of understanding.
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:44   #121
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The Okie Corral

I'll take the word of Michale Baden, Werner Spitz and a dozen other renowned forensic pathologists along with my own experience and understanding of anatomy anyday.
Another CARTOON to support the cover up story. This never gets old!

Simply put, the Zapruder film was, to quote Bruce Willis from Die Hard, "a monkey in the wrench" to the whole cover up. Several eyewitnesses the day of 11-22-1963 reported hearing from 6 to 8 shots, and some said they heard possibly more shots, but cannot say for sure because several of the shots sounded like they came at the exact same or nearly the exact same time.

These come from eyewitnesses, news reports, and newspaper accounts as the Warren Commission refused to hear anything/anyone that didn't align with their version of only 3 shots from the direction of the school book depository.
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Old 05-04-2013, 21:00   #122
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You haven't read all of it. IMO, the supplements make the final report impossible.

Anyway, I don't know how you would possibly equal a fake bullet being found on a stretcher to a shallow leg would as Connally's actual leg would was BONE DEEP. He had fragments of the bullets imbedded in his bone until his death. Surprising you didn't know this fact, OR, you're just trolling.

Now, tell me again how much the pristine bullet weighed as the fragments which were actually pulled from Conally's other wounds have weight too. Waiting...
And you can keep waiting. The info is out there for anybody who wishes to review it. I've already stated I'm not out to convince you of anything. You're obviously tied to your conspiracy theory; enjoy!
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Old 05-04-2013, 21:02   #123
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Simply put, the Zapruder film was, to quote Bruce Willis from Die Hard, "a monkey in the wrench" to the whole cover up. Several eyewitnesses the day of 11-22-1963 reported hearing from 6 to 8 shots, and some said they heard possibly more shots.

These come from eyewitnesses, news reports, and newspaper accounts as the Warren Commission refused to hear anything/anyone that didn't align with their version of only 3 shots from the direction of the school book depository.
More obfuscation of the facts. Your right, this never gets old.
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Old 05-04-2013, 21:07   #124
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And you can keep waiting. The info is out there for anybody who wishes to review it. I've already stated I'm not out to convince you of anything. You're obviously tied to your conspiracy theory; enjoy!
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More obfuscation of the facts. Your right, this never gets old.
You choose to believe the impossible and you have your reasons/reasoning to do so; however, unlike you, I simply find facts and connect dots and then let these lead me to where they indicate I should go.

I don't blame you for quitting, the bullet's weight also points to a conspiracy and impossibility of the "single bullet" theory.
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Old 05-04-2013, 21:10   #125
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You choose to believe the impossible and you have your reasons/reasoning to do so; however, unlike you, I simply find facts and connect dots and then let these lead me to where they indicate I should go.

I don't blame you for quitting, the bullet's weight also points to a conspiracy and impossibility of the "single bullet" theory.
I'm quitting because it's pointless talking to a wall.
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